Gaining muscle

HairyTXdude

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first thing you should look at is your body type -- that will determine what program you should follow if you want to gain mass

for example, I'm a combo ectomorph & endomorph; because of the ectomorph character, I didn't start to see substantial mass gains until I changed to a program of very, very heavy weights and partial movements

a buddy of time that started at the same time as I did, but of an ectomorph body type, was doing full range of motion with light weights and gained explosively

first thing you want to do is read more (I'm surprised the thread went this far before anyone mentioned this)
I've read alot, I have about 20 books on weight lifting and muscle gaining, My body type is between two type I took this test and it says the same thing, but it still doesnt mean im seeing any results...
 

Calboner

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Are you taking protein or weight-gain shakes between meals? When I started training seriously but before I added the shakes, I went from about 125 to 132 pounds and was stuck there for a long time. After I added shakes, I got up to 160, though it took me a couple of years. I still have to take them to maintain that weight. (I just came back from a couple of weeks of traveling, during which I lost about five pounds.)
 

B_Nick4444

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assuming you're getting enough rest and sleep, (the nutritional component is being overstated) I would have someone check out your workout

so, if you're saying (1) that you're following the program recommended for your body type, (2( and assuming your characterization of your body type is correct, (3) then the question is your stimulation (your workout is being correctly performed and adhered to) appropriate? and, (4) you're getting the necessary rest and sleep required for anabolism?

I'd have someone look at your workout, try a different routine, try a different split
 

Calboner

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assuming you're getting enough rest and sleep, (the nutritional component is being overstated) I would have someone check out your workout
If he's gaining weight but not gaining muscle, then the cause is the workout and not the caloric intake. If he isn't gaining weight at all, then the caloric intake is at least a cause.
 

cdog204

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Some people are just genetically set up to be thin and not show a lot of muscle. You need to accept what your genes are expressing, because they're not going to stop. The only way that you can truly overcome your genetic programming is to eat like a pig and be a lazy, sedentary person. Give that a few years and you probably can defy your genetic programming to be a trim ectomorph.

In general, I really don't buy a lot of the traditional logic and advice regarding bodybuilding. I personally believe that the 'big' guys disseminate knowledge that might really only be helpful to their body type and that a lot of it probably doesn't apply to the lanky guys like me who want to just be more toned.

I've had trainers tell me stuff like, "If you want to gain muscle, you need to eat at least one gram of protein for every pound of body weight every day. Eat a can of tuna for breakfast." Sorry, I'm a smart guy. I know that pounds and grams basically have no natural way of relating to each other. I also know that protein synthesis is what RNA is all about, so I'm not sure why what I ingest would necessarily need to be so specific. I think the one gram per pound thing is something that was schmoozled down so that dumbass personal trainers could remember it. And there is no way I'm going to take on the mercury load in canned tuna... I've also gotten stuff like, "Beef is a more complicated protein than chicken," with absolutely no explanation, or "Fish has too much fat, so avoid it." Indeed, the omega-3 fats in fish are great for you in countless ways.

What I've found overall in my personal journey is that losing fat can happen incredibly quickly, but gaining muscle is really really hard and slow. I have found that while losing fat happens quickly across the body, gaining muscle is not as generalized. I have definitely had quicker results with arms and upper body than with abs and lower body. My understanding of anatomy makes me theorize the following:
-The muscles of the human body exist to support the body and its basic functions. Therefore, each muscle must be able to perform its specific function as well as, more or less, support the parts of the body that bear weight upon it. The abs/midbody must be able to move the upper body, so they must be able to bear the weight of approximately half of what the leg systems must support. The arms don't support much at all. Therefore, an exercise that adds 90lbs to the arms will produce results for the arms faster than an exercise that adds 90lbs to the abs, and certainly faster than 90lbs to the gluteal.
-Weight exercises are only effective if they cause the muscle groups in target to work harder than they do in the course of their normal, non-gym operation. This is actually quite an obvious explanation of why weightlifting works in general. If your abs can lift you up from lying on the bed to sitting up without strain like most can, and you weigh roughly 185lbs, then your upper body probably weighs something like 80-90 lbs. If you are doing an ab machine, in order to see any muscle development, you need get the muscles to move a lot more than they normally do in the course of every day life. Nothing too alarming if you really think about it.
 

Lex

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I need to get in touch with you.

Feel free to send me a PM.

Are you taking protein or weight-gain shakes between meals? When I started training seriously but before I added the shakes, I went from about 125 to 132 pounds and was stuck there for a long time. After I added shakes, I got up to 160, though it took me a couple of years. I still have to take them to maintain that weight. (I just came back from a couple of weeks of traveling, during which I lost about five pounds.)
I had the same revelation. Remember that once you have gained and maintained 5 pounds, you will need to recalculate BMR and up calories. Muscle burns more calories at rest than does fat. I am currently taking 4 shakes per day: 1 before I work out, 1 after, one midday and one before bed.

wow this stuff sounds expensive. eating like 6x a day.. that probably definitely adds up.
Not really. You find out how many calories you need in a day and then divide the Protein/Fat/Carb content by six and make a meal plan. Eating 3 times per day is a recipe for over/undereating and being fat. There are lots of cheap calorie dense foods like whole milk and raw eggs (free range).

If he's gaining weight but not gaining muscle, then the cause is the workout and not the caloric intake. If he isn't gaining weight at all, then the caloric intake is at least a cause.
I disagree. You can not turn fat into muscle. If he is gaining weight and most of it is fat, he is not taking in the right ratios of protein, carbs (complex, not simple) and fat.

Some people are just genetically set up to be thin and not show a lot of muscle.
Genetics determine how FAR you can go, but not whether you can gain or lose weight. Sure some have to work harder, but it can be done.


In general, I really don't buy a lot of the traditional logic and advice regarding bodybuilding. I personally believe that the 'big' guys disseminate knowledge that might really only be helpful to their body type and that a lot of it probably doesn't apply to the lanky guys like me who want to just be more toned.
I was a skinny guy for 30+ years of my life. The advice of bodybuilders helped me get to where I am now. Do you think every bodybuilder was born huge? I Know a guy who was skinny like Steve Erkel and is now about 280 pounds of muscle. Anything is possible.


I've had trainers tell me stuff like, "If you want to gain muscle, you need to eat at least one gram of protein for every pound of body weight every day. Eat a can of tuna for breakfast." Sorry, I'm a smart guy. I know that pounds and grams basically have no natural way of relating to each other.

Your trainers are correct about grams and pounds. Between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound. I am curently taking in 220 g of Protein a day. Once I up my carbs, I should start seeing some significant gains again.

1 gram of protein or carbs = 4 calories, 1 g of fat = 8 calories. 3600 calories = 1 pound ( made a typo in my earlier post). It IS related and you are incorrect.

I would not suggest eating a can of tuna for breakfast without knowing what your overall day and time of workout is currently. eating one can of tuna per day can be a part of getting to the recommended amount of protein, but will not get you there in and of itself.

What I've found overall in my personal journey is that losing fat can happen incredibly quickly, but gaining muscle is really really hard and slow.
Hardgainer is Latin for" I eat, but not enough to gain weight and grow."

I have found that while losing fat happens quickly across the body, gaining muscle is not as generalized. I have definitely had quicker results with arms and upper body than with abs and lower body. ...
Your personal results are not science. Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym. When your body fat % approaches 12% or lower, you will see your abs. No amount of direct ab work will do this alone. You can not control from where the fat burns.

Genetics is far more important than people will have you beleive......
Again, genetics can be overcome with hard work and dedication. I have seen too many everyday people do this to believe otherwise. If I had listened to people like you, I would still be tall and skinny.
 

B_Nick4444

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If he's gaining weight but not gaining muscle, then the cause is the workout and not the caloric intake. If he isn't gaining weight at all, then the caloric intake is at least a cause.

to achieve muscular hypertrophy, which is what I read his intention to be, he first has to stimulate certain physiological processes that will then require the other biochemical processes, at which point nutrition then becomes a significant factor

unless he does achieve the muscular stimulation, most commonly achieved by stress overload, then nutrition is irrelevant, and a non-factor

once nutrition does become a factor, then you have other issues such as timing of bio-availability, the presence of certain hormones, etc.
 

patreus

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To the OP:

Lex pretty much told you everything you need to know. Ignore most of the other advice on here and do what Lex said.

I've been lifting for over a year now. I started out at about 173 lbs, 20% body fat. (I'm 5'11''.) I'm now at just about the same weight, but more like 13% body fat. I would have made a lot more progress, but for about the first six months I didn't have my diet locked on all the way. I simply wasn't eating enough. Then, I did a little research and reworked my diet, and I've gotten a lot bigger. Currently, I'm on a bulk. I try to take in over 3200 calories a day. I am gaining weight, and all of my lifts are improving. For example, for the longest time I was plateauing on bench press. I couldn't get over 185. The solution? EAT MORE! Since I started bulking about a month ago, I'm up to 195. (Five sets of five.)

To make it very simple:

Step 1: Weigh yourself.

Step 2: Determine your body fat percentage. To get an accurate number, you will need to use calipers, which you can purchase for pretty cheap, so it's no big deal.

To determine your body fat percentage, you measure different areas of one side of your body (typically the right side) and average them together. Usually, the calipers will come with directions on how to use them and the appropriate formulas.

Step 3: Determine your lean body mass. Lean body mass is simply your weight minus all of your body fat. Just multiply your overall weight by your body fat percentage expressed as a decimal. Then subtract that number from your overall weight.

For example:

Tom weighs 200 lbs.
Tom has 20% body fat.

200 x .20 = 40
200 - 40 = 160

Tom has a lean body mass of 160 lbs.

Step 4: Determine your base metabolic rate (BMR). Your BMR is simply the amount of calories your body is burning while resting. In other words, if you were to sit around all day and do nothing, you would burn the amount of calories your body needs to sustain it's lean body mass. You can calculate your BMR here.

A normal BMR is in the 1600 - 1900 range.

When you use the BMR calculator, make sure you input your lean body mass, not your overall weight!

Step 5: Determine your daily calorie needs. You can do this using the Harris Benedict Equation that Lex mentioned above. The resulting number is the amount of calories you need to eat in order to maintain your weight, not gaining or losing any lbs.

If you are basically sedentary, multiply your BMR by 1.1 or 1.2. If your are very active, multiply your BMR by 1.5. If your are lifting every day or three or four days a week, you would definitely want to multiply by 1.5. An active person can easily have a maintenance calories level of 2600 or more.

Once you know your maintenance calorie level, add 500 calories if you are trying to gain weight and subtract 500 if you are trying to lose weight. For an average guy, that means that he could easily require well over 3000 calories a day to gain weight.

Step 6: Count your calories. Go and look at the nutritional labels for everything that you eat, record the calories and then add everything up. While you're doing this it's a good idea to also record the amount of protein, carbs, and fats in all of your foods as well as any other factors you may want to track (like sodioum or cholesterol, etc.).

Does it meet your calorie needs? If not, then add in foods until you are in caloric surplus. If it's too many calories, figure out where you can cut out a few until you are at your desired level.

Here is a great website for counting calories and keeping track of everything your eat. You have to create an account, but it's totally free. You can look up a lot of foods that you are unsure about in terms of calorie levels. (How many calories are in a chicken breast? etc.)

Step 7: Adjust your diet. For a bulking phase, I would recommend eating six or seven times a day. I eat at least once every three hours. From the time I get up until I go to sleep. My stomach is constantly full. And the bit about 1.5 g of protein per pound of body weight is absolutely correct. (Some will tell you 1 g of protein per pound of lean body mass, but it's pretty similar in the end.) If you are trying to gain muscle, protein is your friend. Finding time to fit in all of your meals can be really tough with work and school and everything, but it can be done. What I do is cook a lot of things before hand and take them with me in a cooler or an insulated food bag. Most workplaces have a microwave in the break room where you can heat things up.

Example meal plan off the top of my head:

7:00 AM - Meal 1: 1/2 cup of oats -- 1 scoop whey protein - 1 apple

10:00 AM - Meal 2: 4 eggs -- 1 table spoon natural peanut butter

12:00 PM - Meal 3: 1 grilled chicken breast -- 1 potato

Work Out

3:00 PM - Meal 4: Post-Work Out Shake (ex: 2 scoops whey protein) -- 1/2 cup brown rice

5:00 PM - Meal 5: 1/2 lb lean beef -- 2 cups brocoli

7:00 PM - Meal 6: 4 eggs -- 1 table spoon natural peanut butter

9:00 PM - Meal 7: 1/2 cup cottage cheese -- 1 scoop casein protein

Step 8: Get at least 8 hours of sleep a night, every night. Sleep is actually where your body regenerates and builds back the muscle you broke down in the gym, using all that food you've been eating as fuel. If you don't sleep enough, you will not get bigger. It's as simple as that.

Step 9: Adopt a mass building work out routine. Once you've got your diet and sleep schedule completely locked on, you need to make sure that your getting the most out of every work out that you can. And most people will tell you that to gain the most muscle, you need to do 4 - 6 reps for 3 - 5 sets of a heavy weight, utilizing progressive overload. If you can lift a certain weight 7 times, it's time to go up to the next weight.
Progressive overload simply means that you are increasing in reps per set or weight each exercise.

You can start with Starting Strength, Mad Cow's 5 x 5 program, Max OT training, etc., etc. Suffice it to say that there are plenty of mass building programs out there that you can pick from. The important thing is to stick with it. Heavy weights with low reps.

Step 10: Don't overtrain. Part of getting the most out of every work out is making sure that your muscles have had enough time to recover from the last work out in order to be put under that much stress again. I wouldn't recommend working a particular body part more than twice a week. Most mass building programs only work each body part directly once per week. If your diet and sleep are locked on and you are not increasing in reps or increasing in weight each work out, then you are probably overtraining.

----

Following all of that is pretty much the best anyone can do if they want to stay natural. It may take a long time, but if you stick with it and do everything right eventually you will get to where you want to be. And, only gauge your progress off of yourself. Don't pay attention to how strong or how big anyone else is. Everyone has different genetics. As long as your are making progress and doing the best you can, that's all that matters. Good luck man.
 

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Hi man, im 20 years old too and know a fair bit about exercise physiology :)

A lot of guys have given a lot of useful information about BMRs and calorific intakes- useful for pro athletes yes but not for ordinary people working out- and so here is my take

Muscle building depends on 3 factors
1) Work- ie lifting heavy weight
2) Nutrition- eat more calories than you use - ie 3500-4000 cals per day, consisiting of high protein and higher carbs
3) Rest- at least 8 hrs sleep per night (more if pos)

ie Do the basics and do them well and don't get bogged down in advanced techniques and equations.
If youve got any questions give me a shout man
 

Lex

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Muscles are great to look at and admire, but I'd rather let someone else become the slave to the weights.

I don't see it that way. I look at eating well and exercising as a part of my job. I get up, I exercise, I go to work, I take care of my family. Once I saw the benefits to my body, energy level, and health, there was no turning back. I actually feel bad when I miss my scheduled workout.

...
I've been lifting for over a year now. I started out at about 173 lbs, 20% body fat. (I'm 5'11''.) I'm now at just about the same weight, but more like 13% body fat. I would have made a lot more progress, but for about the first six months I didn't have my diet locked on all the way. I simply wasn't eating enough. Then, I did a little research and reworked my diet, and I've gotten a lot bigger. Currently, I'm on a bulk. I try to take in over 3200 calories a day. I am gaining weight, and all of my lifts are improving. For example, for the longest time I was plateauing on bench press. I couldn't get over 185. The solution? EAT MORE! Since I started bulking about a month ago, I'm up to 195. (Five sets of five.)
....

Yes. The "eat more" is a hard part. You have to put your mind to it. I learned to eat more and that got me to here. Now, I have to relearn eating even more to get up to about 210 or more.

...
A lot of guys have given a lot of useful information about BMRs and calorific intakes- useful for pro athletes yes but not for ordinary people ...
Really? You think basic concepts which are easily explained with 5 second Google searches and online tools that do the work for you are "not useful" or somehow "too difficult" for everyday people?

Not understanding calories and macronutrients (fancy word for proteins, carbs, and fats) is why most people can not lose weight, get fit or gain muscle.

I don't get your insinuation that someone can or should try to reach a goal without being properly educated on what exactly it takes to get there.

That's like saying, got lift a dumbbell, but don't worry about form, because near-perfect reps are a waste of time and only benefit advanced lifters. This would be irresponsible advice as it would lead to injuries, just as your advice (to ignore sound advice) will lead to no gains and frustration.

Just saying.
 

B_Nick4444

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again, to emphasize, have someone take a look at your workout

if you were getting any stimulation, you would have noticed a response on an ordinary diet

it's only once you kick your body into that cycle that changes to your diet should be considered

best of luck

 

cdog204

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I actually have noticed that I've had better results in both weight loss and muscle gain during periods where I have been able to get more sleep. Eight hours is tough for me to get, but when I can get that for an extended period, my gym workouts are definitely more productive.

I took a class in college taught by the world's most preeminent sleep expert. He advocated that we all need at least 9 hours and 15 minutes of sleep nightly, and that athletes needed even more, particularly a nap. Additionally he advocated not doing any strenuous activity for at least three hours before bedtime, and only using your bedroom and most specifically your bed for sleep. He had mountains of research to back this stuff up. I've tried following his program, and the recommendations work. They are impractical, but they do indeed work if you can spend so much sleeping and napping.
 

Calboner

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I took a class in college taught by the world's most preeminent sleep expert. He advocated that we all need at least 9 hours and 15 minutes of sleep nightly, and that athletes needed even more, particularly a nap.
That seems to me a pretty dubious claim. I could lie in bed around the clock and I would not be able to get that much sleep every night unless you drugged me.
 

fresnostudboi

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I was 5'11 ans 104 for a long time. I'm now 6'1" and 165. It took me ab out 4 years to get where I am now (still about 20 lbs under my goal weight)

For me working out is the easy part, but I have a metabolism and need to eat alllll the time to gain weight and maintaine it. About 30g of protein every 3 hours. I would eat 5-6 meals a day, 3 protein shakes a day along with a couple protein bars.

I took a supplement called Spawn from Myogenix and gaine 17 lbs in the 3 weeks. It was incredible. That was 1.5 years ago. I just started my new supplement so hopefully ill get bigger!