Infidelity

[bi_todd]

Even more than politics, circumcision and cheating are two radioactive topics here on LPSG that are certain to inflame passions and provoke harsh judgements.

I couldn't be more bored with the many pro/con circumcision threads. Entirely predictable and repetitive - no thanks.

However, this TED Talk on infidelity is worthy of thoughtful consideration. I love many TED Talks - this is one of the best.

https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_pe...alk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

 

[geitjeshoeder]

Reporter: "Miss Clinton, does the democratic party plan to ensure e-mail safety with a series of "server penetration tests?" "
Hillary: "Bill handles that at every restaurant we visit"

 

[SillyGayBoy]

The thing about circumcision is that people believe a ton of wrong information that doctors lie about or believe themselves.

Supposedly intact men have so many issues, except they don't. The men that are intact can confirm that.

The truth is nothing is better about it, it is damaging painful and harmful. It is an elaborate pyramid scheme and an embarrassment.

America is the home of the free, except to men and their penis. That belongs to their parents.

 

[622675]

Even more than politics, circumcision and cheating are two radioactive topics here on LPSG that are certain to inflame passions and provoke harsh judgements.

I couldn't be more bored with the many pro/con circumcision threads. Entirely predictable and repetitive - no thanks.

However, this TED Talk on infidelity is worthy of thoughtful consideration. I love many TED Talks - this is one of the best.

https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_pe...alk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

TED Talks are great. Esther Perel is great.

TED Talks are often grouped on such topics as happiness, choice and success. They are all worth the watch. You can decide which has value.

Sorry, none on circumcision (I hope).

 

[shard38]

It's a great TED Talk on a difficult subject. To me infidelity is far more about betrayal than about sex. I want to share my most intimate thoughts with a partner and I would be far more upset when a partner breaches that confidentiality than when he or she has a sexual encounter with someone else.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Infidelity is ANYTHING you offer to some other, that you know your mate expects you to reserve exclusively for them.

If you HIDE it from your mate- its a form of infidelity. Even when you are hiding, say, that you are spending money you know your mate would object to - what you hide is the things you know are betrayals of trust.


However... sometimes your mate's expectations of exclusivity are extreme or unreasonable. Such as, many women think that their man viewing porn is a betrayal...
Others might think that their man flirting in a social situation is a betrayal.


The problems with infidelity begin with our own timidity about honestly discussing our expectations of one another in relationship.
A man may so long for a given woman, so enjoy her company and sex with her that he just swallows her discomfort with porn and so he either tries to stop- or he hides it.

We would have better attitudes about infidelity if we could just discuss openly and rationally our expectations and come to an agreement about what is or is not allowed, up front.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

However, this TED Talk on infidelity is worthy of thoughtful consideration. I love many TED Talks - this is one of the best.

Great find.
A genuinely profound insight into the dynamics of infidelity.

Particularly moving was the perspective that a straying partner is not always looking for a different other, but for a different self.

Life is so hard in the face of mortality and finite opportunities. Our expectations and aspirations are so varied and complex, and we are all just trying to survive by whatever means we have at hand, or can create out of thin air.

But the key is always in the expectations of those to whom we have committed.

Perhaps, the answer is to expect less of one another...
Or at least to discuss our expectations openly and agree.

 

[TheHappyWhore]

This was a very intriguing look into the minds and the evolving history of affairs in a relationship.

From the outside looking in, I I've seen the fear of not experiencing enough variety in life or a longing for the past ruin marriages that, while not perfect, had no reason to fail.

My automatic thought that the other partner should end the marriage is so ingrained in our society but the presentation brought up a lot of good points for saving the marriage. That it is not only possible but not the death sentence as once thought.

Being objective in the midst or aftermath of an affair or other betrayal is difficult if not down right impossible. But to move forward from and for some to reconcile and be better for it is at least worth a try. That's an encouraging thought.

 

[HornyToad11]

Even more than politics, circumcision and cheating are two radioactive topics here on LPSG that are certain to inflame passions and provoke harsh judgements.

I couldn't be more bored with the many pro/con circumcision threads. Entirely predictable and repetitive - no thanks.

However, this TED Talk on infidelity is worthy of thoughtful consideration. I love many TED Talks - this is one of the best.

https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_pe...alk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

Hoping that I am not off topic, but I like this TED talk:

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[halcyondays]

I love TedTalks and this is one of the best. It adds more evidence the theory that, whatever the causes of cheating and infidelity, monogamy and marriage vows are artificial moral constructs into which most humans are socially indoctrinated when our species is not naturally perfect in that way. Similar taboos are drilled into us about not lying, not stealing, not coveting and not rocking the boat (you must accept without question the religion/tribe/class/station/caste we impose on you).

 

[Crimsonlurker]

I tend to think that infidelity is simply about control. Either having it, wanting it or trying to hold on to it. From what i've seen most people cheat because they want something or someone, don't want something or someone, think they need something or someone, think they don't need something or someone or just don't know.

Regaining their sexuality, reaffirming it, finding it, experimenting with it and etc. Same goes for the emotional aspect. Financial aspect. Geographic aspect. Racial, religious and etc. To me it all just amounts to control. And the constant battle we humans have for and against it. We human beings have serious problems with consistency. Serious problems with doing the same thing over and over again or thinking we're doing the same thing over and over again. We don't actually do the same things over and over again. Or not really. Sex is different every last time no matter who we have sex with but it can feel like the same. It can feel like we aren't getting what we want or that another isn't getting what they want. That's more about perception than reality though.

Our perceptions dictate all of this. And if we aren't actually in control of our perceptions then it can lead to the journey to regain it. Our understanding of reality plays a very large role in cheating. So much so that we'll try to cheat reality. And consequently our partners. Being honest with someone means you sacrifice an amount of control. Or at least that's the general perception. Never let'm see you sweat...never show your hand and etc. Control. Weakness. Power struggles.

Manipulating someone else into thinking everything's alright when it isn't is a power grab. An attempt at gaining, holding on to or experimenting with control. Either control over someone else, multiple someone elses or yourself. And thats because while we human beings have a very difficult times staying consistent, inconsistency is still also a very scary thing. Inconsistency is still change. Something most of us don't enjoy. Something we enjoy even less the older we get.

Don't really know why i typed all that but that's what i'm thinking infidelity is about. Yet another leg/form/attempt at/study in control.

 

[bi_todd]

Particularly moving was the perspective that a straying partner is not always looking for a different other, but for a different self.

That part resonated with me too. Following that line of thought, the remedy for infidelity can perhaps be found when the straying partner becomes comfortable with who he is or changes to become the person he wants to be.

I always laugh at the phrase "you're not the person I married". Of course you're not! People are constantly changing, learning, and evolving. It is unreasonable to expect your partner to remain the same. The most you can hope for is that you remain compatible in your relationship as you both change.

 

[Brodie888]

Infidelity is like drug addiction. The offender knows what they are doing is destructive but they ignore the consequences because the betrayal satisfies a need within them.

It is the answer to a problem that they have been incapable of finding a better solution for.

In my opinion, I would despise a person's inability to resolve their issues more than the act of infidelity itself.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Infidelity is like drug addiction. The offender knows what they are doing is destructive but they ignore the consequences because the betrayal satisfies a need within them.

It is the answer to a problem that they have been incapable of finding a better solution for.

In my opinion, I would despise a person's inability to resolve their issues more than the act of infidelity itself.

Actually... more than half the time an infidelity is the result of being mistreated or ignored by your spouse.
When a woman makes her make feel like she's doing him a huge favor to have sex with him...
When a man makes his woman feel like she's a fuck-socket he doesn't care to romance or interact with...
Or when either partner simply loses interest, or let's themselves go, without the slightest effort to Be attractive to their mate.

Sometimes the ones having the affair are not the ones who initiated the betrayal or the abandonment.

Marriage is a CONTRACT for sexual access and emotional devotion.

In my experience, an affair is often not the breach of contract... its just the result of a contract that was already breached thru some other form of abandonment, disregard, or mistreatment.

 

[KennF]

Infidelity is like drug addiction. The offender knows what they are doing is destructive but they ignore the consequences because the betrayal satisfies a need within them.

It is the answer to a problem that they have been incapable of finding a better solution for.

In my opinion, I would despise a person's inability to resolve their issues more than the act of infidelity itself.

I think this is an oversimplification from the perspective of the spouse.

Infidelity isn't addictive, although there are some people so afraid of commitment, or some other aspect of their relationship, that they cheat over and over again. They relish the thrill of doing the taboo, or, want to get caught to end the relationship, or something. The infidelity isn't the addictive part, but since the underlying motive/situation isn't changing, the same stimulus leads to the same result.

The person cheating is making, almost always, making a conscientious choice... is the reward worth the risk. They aren't 'ignoring' the consequences, but rather making a judgment call.

And one other thing, it's too easy to blame the other person and play the victim. The relationship takes BOTH people to work. If Joe has an affair, because Lee has checked out of the relationship, should Lee despise Joe or should Joe look inward for why Joe may have abandoned the relationship?

 

[185248]

I'm contemplating navels.

 

[Brodie888]

Actually... more than half the time an infidelity is the result of being mistreated or ignored by your spouse.
When a woman makes her make feel like she's doing him a huge favor to have sex with him...
When a man makes his woman feel like she's a fuck-socket he doesn't care to romance or interact with...
Or when either partner simply loses interest, or let's themselves go, without the slightest effort to Be attractive to their mate.

Sometimes the ones having the affair are not the ones who initiated the betrayal or the abandonment.

Marriage is a CONTRACT for sexual access and emotional devotion.

In my experience, an affair is often not the breach of contract... its just the result of a contract that was already breached thru some other form of abandonment, disregard, or mistreatment.

If the relationship is damaged, then either fix it or end it. It doesn't justify infidelity. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

If the relationship is damaged, then either fix it or end it. It doesn't justify infidelity. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Said with astonishing naivete...

Sometimes, there is more of value than just whether your spouse will fuck you or not. There may be kids... property, or families that you do not choose to break up.

There may be other circumstances... My grandmother took to her bed and refused to get out of it for the last 15 years of her life.
My grandfather loved her and took care of her, as she became increasingly incapacitated by being bedridden... he cleaned up after her, applied poultices to her bedsores, and never once failed to be there for her in every way...

And there was a widow woman who lived a few blocks away who he visited occasionally for the human touch and intimacy that his wife could no longer offer.

Was that a 'wrong' ? or was that the only way he could carve a less despairing path thru the fate that life had thrown at him, without the means to significantly alter that fate?

Was that widow a home wrecker? or just one more tender soul cast adrift and alone yet still yearning for a whisper of passion... for a man's loving caress?

Your absolutism is the myopia of having simply not lived enough, or suffered enough, to know the broad scope of sorrows that human beings face over deep time.

 

[Brodie888]

I think this is an oversimplification from the perspective of the spouse.

Infidelity isn't addictive, although there are some people so afraid of commitment, or some other aspect of their relationship, that they cheat over and over again. They relish the thrill of doing the taboo, or, want to get caught to end the relationship, or something. The infidelity isn't the addictive part, but since the underlying motive/situation isn't changing, the same stimulus leads to the same result.

The person cheating is making, almost always, making a conscientious choice... is the reward worth the risk. They aren't 'ignoring' the consequences, but rather making a judgment call.

And one other thing, it's too easy to blame the other person and play the victim. The relationship takes BOTH people to work. If Joe has an affair, because Lee has checked out of the relationship, should Lee despise Joe or should Joe look inward for why Joe may have abandoned the relationship?

Obviously infidelity is not an addiction in textbook terms. I used drug addiction as a simile because there are many aspects that are similar.

I don't think there is any justification for infidelity. It does nothing to fix the problem and at best it prolongs a bad situation or at the very least makes it worse.

To say the partner is at fault for ones infidelity is essentially victim shaming. Where is the line drawn on punishing a partner?

 

[Brodie888]

Said with astonishing naivete...

Sometimes, there is more of value than just whether your spouse will fuck you or not. There may be kids... property, or families that you do not choose to break up.

There may be other circumstances... My grandmother took to her bed and refused to get out of it for the last 15 years of her life.
My grandfather loved her and took care of her, as she became increasingly incapacitated by being bedridden... he cleaned up after her, applied poultices to her bedsores, and never once failed to be there for her in every way...

And there was a widow woman who lived a few blocks away who he visited occasionally for the human touch and intimacy that his wife could no longer offer.

Was that a 'wrong' ? or was that the only way he could carve a less despairing path thru the fate that life had thrown at him, without the means to significantly alter that fate?

Was that widow a home wrecker? or just one more tender soul cast adrift and alone yet still yearning for a whisper of passion... for a man's loving caress?

Your absolutism is the myopia of having simply not lived enough, or suffered enough, to know the broad scope of sorrows that human beings face over deep time.

And you really think one partner has the right to make a decision that affects both of their lives?

I'm not going to stoop down to ad hominem attacks. If what you believe is right for you, so be it.