Interesting article

[VinceNYC]

Originally posted by Freddie53@Jul 12 2005, 09:14 PM
I have always wondered what would happen if a bunch of baby boys were raised by male gay couples and they never met girls until they were at least 14 or and saw and new about all gay activity as love between men, but didn't even know that weren't told or given any information about females. Then girls were introduced, but not as sexual beings. How would those boys react. If there told that sex betweeen guys of the same age is OK so there would be no boy and adult male sex going on. No knowledge of women as sexual beings. Of course this situation would require total isolation for the world. Perhaps on some tropical island perhaps where even total nudity was practiced by all. ...

[post=328715]Quoted post[/post]​

Well, using gay people as a model, I would guess that the boys would eventually realize their attraction to women, as many men who have been raised in situations where homosexuality is not an options will attest. They would first be wracked with guilt--thinking that something is wrong with them. Then they would realize that many people are hetero, and would eventually grow comfortable with who they are. A percentage would probably commit suicide. Sound familiar?

 

[VinceNYC]

Originally posted by Shad@Jul 13 2005, 02:07 PM

the "standards of nature" do not revolve around any single organism, I'm afraid. reproduction will occur regardless. the assumption that homosexuality and reproduction are mutually exclusive is also terribly naive.

So....the vast majority of gays will reproduce?

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ANY gay person who CHOOSES to reproduce can. That's what the good Dr. is saying. He's talking about nature, not personal choice. The fact that a majority of gays do not choose to reproduce is simply their choice.

 

[VinceNYC]

Originally posted by ChimeraTX@Jul 13 2005, 01:29 AM
Health is relative; an organism with no desire to reproduce is unfit by Darwin's standard.

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LOL! Please explain then why homosexuality exists? If it is flawed in the way you say, how come evolution hasn't wiped homosexuality out? Hasn't there been enough time for it to be eradicated?

And in addition, what makes you thing gay people don't "desire" to reproduce? What people desire and what is feasible are two different issues. In the past it was not practical for gay people to raise children, given issues in society, but as those issues diminish, more gay people are following through with their desire to have children.

 

[LuckyLuke]

Originally posted by Shad@Jul 13 2005, 02:24 PM

*sigh* you've been told about this before. shooting your mouth off on subjects you know nothing about will NOT encourage people to take you seriously.

I agree with Chimera. One of the goals of the default goals in all organisms is to reproduce during their life-span. This goal ensures the survival of the species as a whole.

As organisms get smarter, humans for example, have the ability to ignore this urge.
And so, from a Darwin-like point of view, this is problematic, and it is especially pronounced in homosexuals, who quite frequently, do not mate with the opposite sex.

As such, homosexuality can be consdidered an "error" by standards of nature.

Now, before I get flamed to hell for that, please note that this "error" is not necessarily bad. From a >HUMAN< point of view, there should be nothing wrong with homosexuality, since it&#39;s just another diverse group in a many many more. If anything, that there is no urge to mate with the opposite-sex contributes a tad to slowing down population growth.

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Hogwash&#33; What about worker ants? Who says every member of a given species must be required to want to breed? If a species breeds, it is doing fine.

 

[VinceNYC]

Originally posted by Shad@Jul 14 2005, 10:24 AM
Well, for the sake of a good debate, and as long as I&#39;m not offending anybody, I&#39;ll keep at it

ANY gay person who CHOOSES to reproduce can. That&#39;s what the good Dr. is saying. He&#39;s talking about nature, not personal choice. The fact that a majority of gays do not choose to reproduce is simply their choice.

Exactly. Our intelligence gives us the awareness that we do not have to reproduce, that it might not be beneficial for the person. For the person, this is a good thing. As for the species, this awareness is not so good.

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Well, yeah, but that&#39;s not what you were saying. You were saying that homosexuality is a biological error simply because a homosexual relationship, in your opinion, does not provide for procreation.

I have pointed out that gay people can procreate, if they so choose, and are doing so in larger numbers every day. In addition, in another post in response to ChimeraTX, I pointed out that homosexual people continue to exist, so if they are, evolutionarily speaking, a mistake, then why haven&#39;t they been eliminated by evolution? Have you abandoned your original argument?

 

[deewil]

Originally posted by mao@Jul 12 2005, 06:12 AM
This would explain, Dr Rahman [the report co-author] said, why the finger lengths of adult gay men tended to be more male-like than those of heterosexual men, in that their index fingers are significantly shorter than their ring finger. (Women&#39;s index and ring fingers tend to be of equal length.)

I would think that if the brain of gay males happens to be more female-like, than, if anything, the index fingers of such people would be less, and NOT more, male-like too.

As for homosexual behavior, I read an article that indicated gay sex, meaning male to male, was surprisingly common in the very repressed nation of Iraq. The estimated amount of such activity totally floored me.

I wonder if a very extreme, prison-like or fanatical environment, which has been true of that country for a long time, will make people do things they ordinarily wouldn&#39;t do, regardless of genetics?

 

[DadsAreUs]

Originally posted by Shad@Jul 13 2005, 02:24 PM

I agree with Chimera. One of the goals of the default goals in all organisms is to reproduce during their life-span. This goal ensures the survival of the species as a whole.

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obviously not because I am an organism and I have no such desire.

 

[DadsAreUs]

Originally posted by Shad@Jul 13 2005, 07:07 PM

the "standards of nature" do not revolve around any single organism, I&#39;m afraid. reproduction will occur regardless. the assumption that homosexuality and reproduction are mutually exclusive is also terribly naive.

So....the vast majority of gays will reproduce?

[post=328874]Quoted post[/post]​

possibly. a lot of gay people come out after starting a family with a member of the opposite sex and having children.

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by LuckyLuke@Jul 14 2005, 06:24 AM
Hogwash&#33; What about worker ants? Who says every member of a given species must be required to want to breed? If a species breeds, it is doing fine.

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Certainly not any other social animal on the planet.

Nature isn&#39;t teleological. We enjoy orgasms. The basic sex brain chemistry isn&#39;t complex enough to decide that we only enjoy them when they come from fertile members of the opposite sex. However, the fact that we enjoy orgasms by itself encourages us to have more offspring than those who don&#39;t.

Sex can still serve other purposes, though. For one it helps people bond. Sorry, but you&#39;re imprinted with every sex partner you&#39;ve ever had. You can&#39;t help it. And the more you have sex with that person, the more you&#39;re imprinted.

And frequent ejaculation helps prevent prostate cancer.

 

[dolf250]

Originally posted by steve319@Jul 13 2005, 02:19 PM
Hey, one of my index fingers is way shorter than the corresponding ring finger but the other ones are just about equal. What does that mean?

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It means that you should immediately change your gay/straight ratio to 50/50 to better represent what is obvously the truth (weather you are willing to admitt it or not.)