Joe Locke

[Shadowball]

lol it's pretty much 99.99% confirmed Joe is playing him, down to making plans for Billy's involvement in future series/plotlines.

I could be wrong about him playing Billy. I don't think I am but I could be!! But for sure, 100%, there have been no public annoucements or even reliable leaks about Billy's or Joe's "involvement in future series/plotlines."

I remember the lead-up to Stargirl when people were 100% convinced that Jake Austin Walker was playing Wally West. Completely sure!!! They had some good evidence, too. (The show took place in his hometown, he is decent physical casting, red hair.) But nope! People get sure and then they get disappointed.

Anyway, Marvel doesn't want to include gay characters with the importance or legacy of Wiccan. They've made that very clear.

 

[Clearlybeingstalkedonhere]

I could be wrong about him playing Billy. I don't think I am but I could be!! But for sure, 100%, there have been no public annoucements or even reliable leaks about Billy's or Joe's "involvement in future series/plotlines."

I remember the lead-up to Stargirl when people were 100% convinced that Jake Austin Walker was playing Wally West. Completely sure!!! They had some good evidence, too. (The show took place in his hometown, he is decent physical casting, red hair.) But nope! People get sure and then they get disappointed.

Anyway, Marvel doesn't want to include gay characters with the importance or legacy of Wiccan. They've made that very clear.

 

[Shadowball]

I could make that in excel lol

 

[Clearlybeingstalkedonhere]

I could make that in excel lol

Im patient. I can wait.

 

[qavak0]

People were "99.9% confirmed" that Mephisto was in WandaVision and that Evan Peters was playing the real Fox Quicksilver too. Marvel loves to pull a swerve on stuff like this. I think it's fairly likely that Joe is playing Billy but I'll believe it when I see it happen onscreen.

 

[qavak0]

Anyway, Marvel doesn't want to include gay characters with the importance or legacy of Wiccan. They've made that very clear.

Disney has a complicated and at times super weak history with LGBT content, sure, but no, they haven't done what you say. They're going to do Wiccan and Hulkling (and Speed/Tommy, who is at least bi) just like they've set up every other Young Avenger onscreen lately in recent projects, and they already introduced and made the audience fall in love with Wanda and Vision's twins. It will definitely happen, it's just a matter of time. The question is if Joe Locke is playing Billy. I am not convinced, but we'll see.

 

[Funtimes2023]

I could be wrong about him playing Billy. I don't think I am but I could be!! But for sure, 100%, there have been no public annoucements or even reliable leaks about Billy's or Joe's "involvement in future series/plotlines."

I remember the lead-up to Stargirl when people were 100% convinced that Jake Austin Walker was playing Wally West. Completely sure!!! They had some good evidence, too. (The show took place in his hometown, he is decent physical casting, red hair.) But nope! People get sure and then they get disappointed.

Anyway, Marvel doesn't want to include gay characters with the importance or legacy of Wiccan. They've made that very clear.

This may have been true in the past, and it has taken the MCU for too long to get to this point - but its very clear they have been working towards setting up the Young Avengers, and there is absolutely zero chance they will do a Young Avengers storyline without featuring Wiccan - ESPECIALLY as we saw him in Wandavision (the Halloween episode was great fun).

Plus, in the casting call for which Joe was specifically headhunted, the character sheet clearly said that it would be for an openly gay character...

I think it will be great if Joe ends up playing Wiccan - but I'm also going to enjoy the show for the story it wants to tell, rather than expectations I put upon it before watching. Fan theory/casting and speculation can be fun... but too often many people get caught up in their own hype.

 

[photojosh]

The Article

 

[newcru]

Maybe he’s playing Billy Harkness, Agatha’s adopted son. She named him that to tweak Wanda, who is not around to be tweaked

 

[Melchie]

I'm usually one of those who won't believe a rumor until I see it happening on screen when it comes to Marvel, but to be honest in this case I'm more and more convinced that Joe will be Wiccan... if only because I don't think that Marvel would have two gay magical twinks closely linked to Wanda and Agatha in the same universe, so if they're setting up one, it makes more sense that it will eventually turn out to be Billy. IF he's not Billy, then it means that they don't want to handle his relationship with Teddy and that neither character will ever be an option.

Anyway, those pride pictures are precious.

 

[Shadowball]

Disney has a complicated and at times super weak history with LGBT content, sure, but no, they haven't done what you say. They're going to do Wiccan and Hulkling (and Speed/Tommy, who is at least bi) just like they've set up every other Young Avenger onscreen lately in recent projects, and they already introduced and made the audience fall in love with Wanda and Vision's twins. It will definitely happen, it's just a matter of time. The question is if Joe Locke is playing Billy. I am not convinced, but we'll see.

They have set up every straight Young Avenger, plus a couple of Champions (but not the one gay Champion.)

They have consistantly portrayed important gay characters as having died in childhood (Moondragon), having parentage that can't exist at all (Hulking), having the hero of the movie stare at the camera and tell the audience that they aren't real and don't exist (Billy and Tommy), or bizarrely portraying them as very young children (Billy and Tommy, appearing on this list twice; as well as America Chavez and Phyla-Vel).

I'm usually one of those who won't believe a rumor until I see it happening on screen when it comes to Marvel, but to be honest in this case I'm more and more convinced that Joe will be Wiccan... if only because I don't think that Marvel would have two gay magical twinks closely linked to Wanda and Agatha in the same universe, so if they're setting up one, it makes more sense that it will eventually turn out to be Billy. IF he's not Billy, then it means that they don't want to handle his relationship with Teddy and that neither character will ever be an option.

Anyway, those pride pictures are precious.

I agree with this, but I want to point to She-Hulk to kind of bring my point home.

In She-Hulk:
1.) One of the villians briefly used the code name "HulkKing." While I don't think that this was a deliberate reference or insult to Hulking, I think that if Marvel had any plans for Teddy at all, they would have flagged the use of that name and had the She-Hulk team use a different name.
2.) The final moments, She-Hulk introduces the Hulk's teen son, Skaar. Just as you don't think Marvel will have two magic twinks running around, I dont think theyre going to have two big Hulk-looking twunks running around.

So She-Hulk has me convinced that they have absolutely no plan for Teddy. Now could they bring Billy on without Teddy? Sure. But I don't think they will.

This may have been true in the past, and it has taken the MCU for too long to get to this point - but its very clear they have been working towards setting up the Young Avengers, and there is absolutely zero chance they will do a Young Avengers storyline without featuring Wiccan - ESPECIALLY as we saw him in Wandavision (the Halloween episode was great fun).

Plus, in the casting call for which Joe was specifically headhunted, the character sheet clearly said that it would be for an openly gay character...

I think it will be great if Joe ends up playing Wiccan - but I'm also going to enjoy the show for the story it wants to tell, rather than expectations I put upon it before watching. Fan theory/casting and speculation can be fun... but too often many people get caught up in their own hype.

The casting call appears to be a legit leak, although it's not 100% confirmed. I believe that the character that Joe will ,be playing will probably be gay. I just don't assume it's Billy is all. I think it probably isn't and that folks ,are setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[Melchie]

I agree with this, but I want to point to She-Hulk to kind of bring my point home.

In She-Hulk:
1.) One of the villians briefly used the code name "HulkKing." While I don't think that this was a deliberate reference or insult to Hulking, I think that if Marvel had any plans for Teddy at all, they would have flagged the use of that name and had the She-Hulk team use a different name.
2.) The final moments, She-Hulk introduces the Hulk's teen son, Skaar. Just as you don't think Marvel will have two magic twinks running around, I dont think theyre going to have two big Hulk-looking twunks running around.

So She-Hulk has me convinced that they have absolutely no plan for Teddy. Now could they bring Billy on without Teddy? Sure. But I don't think they will.

Those are all valid points and my fear about Hulkling is that they won't introduce him after Skaar or that, somehow even worst, Skaar will get some of Teddy's story including his relationship with Billy.

The only counterpoint I can offer is that comics Hulkling has nothing to do with Hulk or She-Hulk, so if they wanted to still have Teddy and Skaar, they could downplay Teddy's green persona by focusing more on his shapeshifting abilities. Having Skaar closely linked to the Hulks and Teddy closely linked to the Marvels could be feasible.

On the other hand, having a random magic twink that looks like Billy in a show about Agatha Harkness with close connections to Scarlet Witch would be a blatant erasure of Billy and make it almost impossible to have an actual adult Billy in that same branch of the Marvel universe in the future.

 

[qavak0]

They have consistantly portrayed important gay characters as having died in childhood (Moondragon), having parentage that can't exist at all (Hulking), having the hero of the movie stare at the camera and tell the audience that they aren't real and don't exist (Billy and Tommy), or bizarrely portraying them as very young children (Billy and Tommy)

Have you ever read the comics?

Wanda's twins are Billy and Teddy. They are Young Avengers. That's setup. And them being introduced as kids, their not being real and then becoming real later on is their exact origin in the comics. There's been zero deviation so far. This is literally how they were introduced lol. It is not some anti-gay Disney conspiracy. It goes back decades.

 

[qavak0]

The only counterpoint I can offer is that comics Hulkling has nothing to do with Hulk or She-Hulk, so if they wanted to still have Teddy and Skaar, they could downplay Teddy's green persona by focusing more on his shapeshifting abilities. Having Skaar closely linked to the Hulks and Teddy closely linked to the Marvels could be feasible.

Yeah, not directed at you but this is where actual background with the comics comes in handy. I'm pretty sure Skaar and Teddy have never even interacted in the comics, let alone the Hulk. Teddy's origin has zero to do with the Hulks or the Hulk side of Marvel. He simply took the name for clout when the Young Avengers first started operating, during a period when the adult Avengers team was defunct. Teddy is a prince from space with powers from those species.

On the other hand, having a random magic twink that looks like Billy in a show about Agatha Harkness with close connections to Scarlet Witch would be a blatant erasure of Billy and make it almost impossible to have an actual adult Billy in that same branch of the Marvel universe in the future.

Does it? Because if Joe plays a role that has nothing to do with Billy and that character then is written out or dies at the end of Agatha's show, the field remains entirely clear. Nobody in the audience is going to say 'you can't do that because of supporting character X from one miniseries.'

 

[qavak0]

Wanda's twins are Billy and Teddy.

Obviously this should read Billy and Tommy, oop.

 

[Melchie]

Yeah, not directed at you but this is where actual background with the comics comes in handy. I'm pretty sure Skaar and Teddy have never even interacted in the comics, let alone the Hulk. Teddy's origin has zero to do with the Hulks or the Hulk side of Marvel. He simply took the name for clout when the Young Avengers first started operating, during a period when the adult Avengers team was defunct. Teddy is a prince from space with powers from those species.



Does it? Because if Joe plays a role that has nothing to do with Billy and that character then is written out or dies at the end of Agatha's show, the field remains entirely clear. Nobody in the audience is going to say 'you can't do that because of supporting character X from one miniseries.'

About Teddy, yes, that is exacylt what I was saying.

As for your second point, I guess that is an option. But it would still be a very bizarre choice. With WandaVision leading into Doctor Strange 2 and Agatha probably following up on that to help ease in the reintroduction of Wanda, having a Billy-like character who is not Billy at this point would feel so off. Especially if they're setting up something similar to The Children's Crusade to reintroduce Wanda. But I guess that is only speculation, time will tell. In any case I'm sure Joe will be fabulously cute and funny in the show.

 

[qavak0]

As for your second point, I guess that is an option. But it would still be a very bizarre choice. With WandaVision leading into Doctor Strange 2 and Agatha probably following up on that to help ease in the reintroduction of Wanda, having a Billy-like character who is not Billy at this point would feel so off.

It's not like they don't have a history of it. Look at the Pietro thing in WV turning out to be a random dude. If Joe's role in Agatha is a swerve and not Billy, they're not going to care if people are hoodwinked for the same reasons. Regardless, yes, I'm sure Joe will do well.

 

[Shadowball]

Have you ever read the comics?

Wanda's twins are Billy and Teddy. They are Young Avengers. That's setup. And them being introduced as kids, their not being real and then becoming real later on is their exact origin in the comics. There's been zero deviation so far. This is literally how they were introduced lol. It is not some anti-gay Disney conspiracy. It goes back decades.

I know who Wanda's twins are. I am saying that I believe Disney intends to either leave them in their alternate reality or feature them again but continue to do so as pre-teens so they will not have to include important gay characters in their content.

Disney going out of their way to avoid showing gay characters on screen also "goes back decades," come on now.

 

[Shadowball]

Yeah, not directed at you but this is where actual background with the comics comes in handy. I'm pretty sure Skaar and Teddy have never even interacted in the comics, let alone the Hulk. Teddy's origin has zero to do with the Hulks or the Hulk side of Marvel. He simply took the name for clout when the Young Avengers first started operating, during a period when the adult Avengers team was defunct. Teddy is a prince from space with powers from those species.

I am confident that I know the comics as well as anyone on this board. I stand by what I specically said:

~ Disney would not have allowed She-Hulk to name a villain character "HulkKing" if they had any plans for Hulking going forward.
~ The MCU is not going to have two big green alien teenagers running around. This isn't because of any kind of on-panel comic relationship between Teddy and Skaar, who - you are right - have barely met. It is because they operate in too similar a visual niche.
~ While we're talking comics, there is also the fact that Teddy's comic book dad is a woman in the MCU and she died more then thirty years ago.

 

[sfguy86]

I think they'll definitely have the Young Avengers, whether Joe ends up being Wiccan or not. Definitely a bunch of scoopers are suggesting that he is. Although I heard there is a Wonder Woman 2 problem. I'm assuming Billy's soul takes over Kaplan's body is what they're referring too. Thus killing Kaplan which already puts stain on the character. I think this was sort of accurate to the comic book, but I honestly stop collecting several years ago so maybe it was explained later on.

Marvel has already introduced gay characters, with kissing, in Eternals. It's not like Marvel has their characters make out or have sex onscreen outside of Eternals and She-Hulk anyway so I don't think anything outside of kissing or hand holding would be something that would cause issues for them. It's generally a single kiss in their entire film. I personally think Young Avengers would probably be a Disney+ series or film so they wouldn't have to worry about censorship.

People have mentioned casting them all too young, but given the wait we'll probably have for the series or film they'll probably all be in their late teens to early 20s before filming starts. Xochitl Gomez is 18 next year. Also, in reference to the killing of Moondragon, her connection to Drax is so small compared to her overall history they may just be treating her as a character without the connection. When they get to her which is probably 5-10 years away.

Marvel is currently backlogged with too many characters at this point: Moon Knight, Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, Werewolf by Night, Vision II, Namor, Black Panther II, Hulk, Thor, Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Man, Eternals, etc... we have no idea where these characters will show up. Plus the casting of the Fantastic Four and X-Men. They seem to be doing a reset which I think is good. They've introduced so many new is such a short amount of time with no follow up that who knows when we'll see them next. I think that's another reason people haven't been connecting to the new characters like they did the old ones.

As far as Hulkling. HulkKing was forgettable and if you watched the end of the episode wasn't even canon to how She-Hulk wrapped up. So that character didn't even exist in current continuity. You're correct they did switch the gender of Mar-Vell, but one they could just switch the gender of the Skull Princess into a Skull Prince or there could be a new Mar-Vell introduced. I'm betting Hulking will be introduced or have some sort of easter egg in either Secret Invasion or the Marvels. He's way to popular to not be introduced. I just hope they cast Kit Connor as him though. Since they introduced Phastos, I don't think there is anything to worry about. They're just backlogged I think is the main problem.

There isn't an issue with multiple green people running around: Hulk, She-Hulk, Skrulls, Nebula, Drax, etc... Or blue people: Nebula, Beast, Archangel, Nightcrawler, etc... We don't even know when we'll see Hulk again much less Skaar (he hasn't even been cast yet).