Lack of diversity in LGBTQ+ tv shows and how it has an effect in the real world

[Jhughes1995]

I just gonna start off by saying that this is not a victimisation case or a targeted post, this is just an open discussion I'm wanting to have with other members of our communtity, and you guys' opinions on the lack of diversity and stories within the film industry for lgbt representation. Because I've watched a lot of tv shows and movies, and I cannot help but notice that if there is a gay character or a gay relationship in the show, the characters most the time turn out to be these two specific categories; the white skinny twink or the white muscle jock that seems straight at the beginning. I'm not in any way, shape or form hating on these character archetypes, but I do not agree with the lack of diversity and representation for other members of the lgbtq+ community. For example, there are latin and hispanic men with skinnier or bigger body types that are gay or bi, same goes for black people, and asian people. But they are hardly ever represented in these shows or movies, and I feel it really does have an affect on how people view the lgbtq+, where they're part of it or not. The first image that will come to someone's head when the word "gay" is said, will more than likely be one or both of the categorized characters I mentioned above because it's all that we see. I, as a coloured person and a bigger body type, have had experiences before where I was discriminated against and made to feel I don't belong within the communtity because I don't "fit" the social image of what a gay or bi man should be, and I only mention this to further prove my point. Now, I know there are many shows and movies with more lgbt diversity, such as Holt and Kevin from Brooklyn 99, or Tony from 13RW, and Phastos from Eternals, but it is a rare thing to see. I just want to hear opinions from others within the community and how you see the way we're represented, whether you agree or disagree, this is an open discussion.

 

[HorseHung40's]

If you feel that this is a wrong, write the sponsors of the shows, and, make your concerns known to them. That is one way to change things.

 

[Andrej_u]

There is an entire world, outside British and American productions .
It is true that a large part of this world does not produce LGBTQ-themed movies, but nowadays even places that you wouldn't expect have started producing independent LGBTQ-themed films.
One of them is the movie Evening Shadows, from India. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

Another thing you can do is look for movies that were acclaimed in the various LGBTQ movie awards, such as the Queer Lion within the Venice International Film Festival or the much larger Teddy Bear Award in Berlin. Or anyone of these LGBT movie festivals around the world. They're usually available with English subtitles.

Diversity is also about culture and language. You might not see black people represented in the Icelandic movies, but maybe you will find a precious insight on life that you would not get from mainstream English-language media.

 

[deleted20284931]

I just gonna start off by saying that this is not a victimisation case or a targeted post, this is just an open discussion I'm wanting to have with other members of our communtity, and you guys' opinions on the lack of diversity and stories within the film industry for lgbt representation. Because I've watched a lot of tv shows and movies, and I cannot help but notice that if there is a gay character or a gay relationship in the show, the characters most the time turn out to be these two specific categories; the white skinny twink or the white muscle jock that seems straight at the beginning. I'm not in any way, shape or form hating on these character archetypes, but I do not agree with the lack of diversity and representation for other members of the lgbtq+ community. For example, there are latin and hispanic men with skinnier or bigger body types that are gay or bi, same goes for black people, and asian people. But they are hardly ever represented in these shows or movies, and I feel it really does have an affect on how people view the lgbtq+, where they're part of it or not. The first image that will come to someone's head when the word "gay" is said, will more than likely be one or both of the categorized characters I mentioned above because it's all that we see. I, as a coloured person and a bigger body type, have had experiences before where I was discriminated against and made to feel I don't belong within the communtity because I don't "fit" the social image of what a gay or bi man should be, and I only mention this to further prove my point. Now, I know there are many shows and movies with more lgbt diversity, such as Holt and Kevin from Brooklyn 99, or Tony from 13RW, and Phastos from Eternals, but it is a rare thing to see. I just want to hear opinions from others within the community and how you see the way we're represented, whether you agree or disagree, this is an open discussion. View attachment 89004931View attachment 89004951View attachment 89004971View attachment 89005011

The Last of Us, in its episode 3, depicted an out-of-the-ordinary gay couple, with one 'chubby' guy. Even if I didn't really appreciate the episode as a whole, I found the romance well written (in the sense that we saw the couple aging and facing problems common to all couples, like illness).

 

[TDJ6]

If you feel that this is a wrong, write the sponsors of the shows, and, make your concerns known to them. That is one way to change things.

he said he wanted to hear opinions from the community. do you have an opinion on this?

 

[TDJ6]

I just gonna start off by saying that this is not a victimisation case or a targeted post, this is just an open discussion I'm wanting to have with other members of our communtity, and you guys' opinions on the lack of diversity and stories within the film industry for lgbt representation. Because I've watched a lot of tv shows and movies, and I cannot help but notice that if there is a gay character or a gay relationship in the show, the characters most the time turn out to be these two specific categories; the white skinny twink or the white muscle jock that seems straight at the beginning. I'm not in any way, shape or form hating on these character archetypes, but I do not agree with the lack of diversity and representation for other members of the lgbtq+ community. For example, there are latin and hispanic men with skinnier or bigger body types that are gay or bi, same goes for black people, and asian people. But they are hardly ever represented in these shows or movies, and I feel it really does have an affect on how people view the lgbtq+, where they're part of it or not. The first image that will come to someone's head when the word "gay" is said, will more than likely be one or both of the categorized characters I mentioned above because it's all that we see. I, as a coloured person and a bigger body type, have had experiences before where I was discriminated against and made to feel I don't belong within the communtity because I don't "fit" the social image of what a gay or bi man should be, and I only mention this to further prove my point. Now, I know there are many shows and movies with more lgbt diversity, such as Holt and Kevin from Brooklyn 99, or Tony from 13RW, and Phastos from Eternals, but it is a rare thing to see. I just want to hear opinions from others within the community and how you see the way we're represented, whether you agree or disagree, this is an open discussion. View attachment 89004931View attachment 89004951View attachment 89004971View attachment 89005011

well I'm black. and it does irritate me.
I like Billy Eichner but I can't bring myself to watch Bros! and I'll tell you one thing that irritated me from the trailer... there was a part where he's having sex and he's "freaked out" I guess by the "weird" sexual play from the hook up. And the guy was Indian I think. It's really small stuff like that that gets on my nerves. Because of course the non-white guy is "freaky" or "weird".

It's unfortunate though because when it comes to LGBT representation in film, POC really have to do it themselves because in the mainstream and in the WORLD period... white guys are favored. Almost all gay media (when it's in a positive light) is from the white gay perspective. They will throw POC gays in for commercials about living with HIV... a black gay who is YASSified and the comic relief... or the TRAGIC "other".

It is REALLY annoying tbh. Because most often in gay media... POC aren't made to seem desirable, sexy or anything other than just a "fun friend" or "sad friend" or "weird friend". And that TOTALLY spills out into society.

So... yeah you are not alone in how you feel.
and like I said... UNFORTUNATELY WE have to make these movies/books/tv shows ourselves. Which is OBVIOUSLY going to have more hurdles than a white creator. and than if it's even released... alot of times white people will see black stars and think "oh this isn't for ME. it's for THEM" so It's a lose-lose...
(ALSO... i often wonder... like for example everybody is raving about "the last of us" and how lovely the whole gay episode was. I wonder how people would have felt if those actors were non-white)

alright I have to go to a work meeting now... I could literally talk about this all day though.

 

[Jhughes1995]

well I'm black. and it does irritate me.
I like Billy Eichner but I can't bring myself to watch Bros! and I'll tell you one thing that irritated me from the trailer... there was a part where he's having sex and he's "freaked out" I guess by the "weird" sexual play from the hook up. And the guy was Indian I think. It's really small stuff like that that gets on my nerves. Because of course the non-white guy is "freaky" or "weird".

It's unfortunate though because when it comes to LGBT representation in film, POC really have to do it themselves because in the mainstream and in the WORLD period... white guys are favored. Almost all gay media (when it's in a positive light) is from the white gay perspective. They will throw POC gays in for commercials about living with HIV... a black gay who is YASSified and the comic relief... or the TRAGIC "other".

It is REALLY annoying tbh. Because most often in gay media... POC aren't made to seem desirable, sexy or anything other than just a "fun friend" or "sad friend" or "weird friend". And that TOTALLY spills out into society.

So... yeah you are not alone in how you feel.
and like I said... UNFORTUNATELY WE have to make these movies/books/tv shows ourselves. Which is OBVIOUSLY going to have more hurdles than a white creator. and than if it's even released... alot of times white people will see black stars and think "oh this isn't for ME. it's for THEM" so It's a lose-lose...
(ALSO... i often wonder... like for example everybody is raving about "the last of us" and how lovely the whole gay episode was. I wonder how people would have felt if those actors were non-white)

alright I have to go to a work meeting now... I could literally talk about this all day though.

I agree 100% with this!!

 

[Jhughes1995]

There is an entire world, outside British and American productions .

It is true that a large part of this world does not produce LGBTQ-themed movies, but nowadays even places that you wouldn't expect have started producing independent LGBTQ-themed films.
One of them is the movie Evening Shadows, from India. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

Another thing you can do is look for movies that were acclaimed in the various LGBTQ movie awards, such as the Queer Lion within the Venice International Film Festival or the much larger Teddy Bear Award in Berlin. Or anyone of these LGBT movie festivals around the world. They're usually available with English subtitles.

Diversity is also about culture and language. You might not see black people represented in the Icelandic movies, but maybe you will find a precious insight on life that you would not get from mainstream English-language media.

thank you for all your suggestions, i should check some of those out!! And I do agree, but I also feel that because American/ British productions are the biggest and most recognised, based from places which are multi-cultural, poc and bodies should be more represented within it. Like for example, India. It'll have it's tourist areas but majority of that population will be Indian, there won't be much Americans residing there, whereas America and Britain are countries with a big amount of the population being from elsewhere. Whilst they'll pop up as characters, sometimes even as the main characters of movies and shows, the LGBT representation of poc and different bodies don't have a lot to show for it.

 

[Andrej_u]

There is an entire world, outside British and American productions .

thank you for all your suggestions, i should check some of those out!! And I do agree, but I also feel that because American/ British productions are the biggest and most recognised, based from places which are multi-cultural, poc and bodies should be more represented within it. Like for example, India. It'll have it's tourist areas but majority of that population will be Indian, there won't be much Americans residing there, whereas America and Britain are countries with a big amount of the population being from elsewhere. Whilst they'll pop up as characters, sometimes even as the main characters of movies and shows, the LGBT representation of poc and different bodies don't have a lot to show for it.

Thanks for your kind answer!
I feel like there are 3 steps in minority inclusion in western media. I'll simplify a bit, but I'll show what I mean, and I think it applies in some way both to gay and black people.

Step 1: The minority appears in movies, but only as a side character, and only in a very one-faceted, over-the-top way. It is the case for gay people being represented only as feminine and flamboyant, and black people always as sassy. If you look at movies from the 90s-2000s, like American Pie, this is how gays, lesbians and black characters are. (N.B.: nothing wrong with being feminine or sassy! But my point is that these characters lack emotional depth, they are never "sad").
Step 2: you start seeing minorities being main characters in movies. But then the movie has to revolve around the minority status. E.g. the struggle of being black in the US, the discrimination, or your love not being recognised. Brokeback Mountain is a great and groundbreaking example of this. It can also be a deep dive into cultural aspects of being part of a minority, like the series Pose.
Step 3: you start seeing movies about any topic, where the characters just happen to come from a minority. There is a police detective who just happens to be black, a criminal who just happens to have a husband, and so on. I remember a horror movie where all the characters are black, and their skin colour is totally irrelevant to the movie.

In a "healthy" movie industry you have movies of type 2 and 3 coexisting, and you don't produce type 1 anymore. I feel like for many minorities we fully achieved step 2, but step 3 is still kind of a recent development and on its way.

 

[bar4doug]

Does this really come down to making a film that is financially viable, and not necessarily one that is stereotypical?

Know your audience. Know who will pay to see it, and how much they will pay. Know your costs. If you can't release a film without making a profit, soon enough you won't be making any films.

The ROI on niche film are probably minuscule, so you need to know your niche. This is probably why the "one-size-fits-all" approach is taken in way of film-making. The movie needs to be profitable...

 

[deleted14487951]

I always had a weird thing with representation. As someone who comes from, by american standards, a white country, but actually from a very historically tumultuous (nobody really likes us) place, I know that I was never and never will be represented, or at least not in a good way, even though I'm 'white'. I also have a physical deformity that never was or will be shown on screen. My life is so different to what is shown in western media that I could only chuckle if someone mentions that I can relate to all these characters just because of my skin colour. I think it's very good that we're seeing more diversity but it really seems that a lot of times people think that diverse=darker skin colour and sadly it was to the detriment of those people hence the label token character, same goes for gay people imo. I still remember the show Southland and how they dealt with a diverse community. There was a butch, manly cop who just happened to be gay, and it was never really talked about, he just was. And honestly it did more good to me, as someone who was finding myself to see that you could just be you in your everyday life rather than media that are trying to lecture people and say you're homophobic if you don't like it. Iirc the guy from Bros said this about people who didn't watch it. Same thing with minority characters. Regina King was amazing and her character showed how amazing you can be, even with your harder background. The show never pointed fingers, and said everyone is racist, it just showed a strong character. Same thing for the hispanics and the show showed both sides of all the diverse backgrounds, cops and criminals, good and bad and how we can be good people to each other regardless of where we come from. So I think there is some good representation out there, you just have to look for it. I think we're still in a limbo regarding all of that, so let's hope better times come. (Sorry for the long post)

 

[Sagittarius84]

From the perspective of a straight black man, I definitely notice the lack of LGBTetc diversity, but I think their lack of mainstream media ubiquity stems from two separate sources...1st off I think there are simply more white LgBt folk, definitely in sheer numbers, but possibly also proportionally to their total population.
....but 2ndly I think that is bolstered by unresolved cultural issues with LGBT folk within populations of color that prevent our populations from having the nearer to normalcy white lgbt experience. I'm not implying they have some privilege that avails them of all their issues within their own culture/community, I just happen to think on a balance of probability, a white LGBT individual will see more acceptance from their respective heteronormative demographics then a LGBT POC might experience within our respective heteronormative demographics, and until we resolve or at least earnestly address those internal issues that representation will not be reflected within mainstream media.

 

[chrisrobin]

When it is portrayed it always comes over as either seedy or "brave" and nothing like real-life.
I don't want to be bombarded with "!messaged" themes but its almost as if it's obligatory to have a gay person or couple as part of the plot - usually a very small sub plot.

 

[Mister_Anon999]

Just popping in to say I too notice how while we might have more gay characters on tv and film, they're still almost always white and very handsome. Profitability plays a part, sure. But there's more work to be done.

The worst thing is when the character is supposed to be an outsider and not like his appearance but the actor is still really really good looking. That really grinds my gears.

 

[bigboaster]

Just popping in to say I too notice how while we might have more gay characters on tv and film, they're still almost always white and very handsome. Profitability plays a part, sure. But there's more work to be done.

The worst thing is when the character is supposed to be an outsider and not like his appearance but the actor is still really really good looking. That really grinds my gears.

Are you suggesting that more "normal" or "average" looking queer actors should be prioritized?

Seems like an odd critique to me since Hollywood in general (and film) often favors beautiful people, so naturally this would extend to queer media as well. This just seems like an overall critique of the industry as a whole, not just queer content.

 

[bigboaster]

I personally think things are getting a lot better though compared to several years ago, but people often only focus on the projects they can criticize rather than uplift lesser known diverse work that absolutely does exist. I would list some examples but I don't much see the point?

This isn't shade to OP but this post definitely feels like victimization to me. Sorry, that is just my opinion though, it's not an attack on you by any means but I don't dwell in this headspace, and I myself am a black gay man just fyi but someone tries anything lol smh

 

[Sagittarius84]

I think also too what needs to kept in mind, is that much of advertising and media is geared towards the consumer whose decisions, and preferences tend to be the most lucrative and profitable for those wanting to make money...i.e., women, specifically ciswomen. So a lot of LGBT+ portrayal is going to follow their preferences and stereotypical perspective...

 

[TDJ6]

Are you suggesting that more "normal" or "average" looking queer actors should be prioritized?

Seems like an odd critique to me since Hollywood in general (and film) often favors beautiful people, so naturally this would extend to queer media as well. This just seems like an overall critique of the industry as a whole, not just queer content.

there are plenty of "normal" "average" looking straight actors...
off the top of my head Paul Giamatti, Seth Rogan (who I personally think is hot, but he's not traditionally handsome I guess), Adam Sandler, Jimmy Fallon etc

 

[bigboaster]

there are plenty of "normal" "average" looking straight actors...
off the top of my head Paul Giamatti, Seth Rogan (who I personally think is hot, but he's not traditionally handsome I guess), Adam Sandler, Jimmy Fallon etc

Yes and there have been plenty of average looking queer actors too. And Fat, skinny, feminine queer actors etc. The criticism itself was just silly imho and a clear case of cherry picking.

 

[TDJ6]

Yes and there have been plenty of average looking queer actors too. And Fat, skinny, feminine queer actors etc. The criticism itself was just silly imho and a clear case of cherry picking.

seems like this whole thread sounds "silly" to you.