Language learning thread

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I have a good ear, I think ... but bad ears.
So learning a foreign language can be difficult, at least the spoken form.
I took French in high school, but that's late to start, and we only had two hours of it a week ... completely inadequate to really get anywhere.
In my 30s, I moved to France for a year and a half and became fairly fluent.
Later on, I lived in Quebec and solidified my knowledge of the language. People even said I was bilingual (and I assure you, I was not).
But I've hardly used the language for many years now.
I can still read well, and write sorta well ... but my oral comprehension has badly withered.
I'm not sure the whole project of learning French paid real dividends.

 

[BIGBULL29]

I'm not sure the whole project of learning French paid real dividends.

I do it purely for personal pleasure, as language learning is my life (certain ones perk my curiosity more than than others, of course). No, I don't expect any respect or financial reward for it, although it takes an incredible amount of effort and time to learn a tongue that is not native to you; and to master it - that is to speak/write/read it like an educated native speaker - is an accomplishment of accomplishments, even for those who are gifted for languages.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I do it purely for personal pleasure, as language learning is my life (certain ones perk my curiosity more than than others, of course). No, I don't expect any respect or financial reward for it, although it takes an incredible amount of effort and time to learn a tongue that is not native to you; and to master it - that is to speak/write/read it like an educated native speaker - is an accomplishment of accomplishments, even for those who are gifted for languages.

Absolutely.
If I had another chance to be immersed in French, I would take it.
Because feeling that little linguistic muscle grow and strengthen was a wonderful thing.

 

[luka82]

Sure, if you divide one language up into three or four "languages" differentiated by the location and ethnicity of the people who speak them, then the speaker of one of those languages becomes "multilingual"! I once read a scholarly book, published, I think, about five years ago, on the language or languages that used to make up Serbo-Croatian. The author, an English scholar of Slavic languages, reported that in Belgrade he was complimented on his speaking Serbian so well, while in Zagreb he was complimented on his excellent Croatian. He was, of course, simply speaking one language throughout his travels. At one point, though, he ran afoul of what Freud once called the narcissism of small differences: while in Serbia he used a word for one of the months of the year (I don't remember which one) that is now used only in Croatia (or maybe it was the other way around). One of the people that he was talking with took him aside somewhat crossly and demanded that he recite the months of the year in Serbian.

It could have happen, I wouldn`t be suprised. The biggest nationalistic garbage in my country is bred in three departments of Belgrade University: The Law School, The Department of History at The Philosophy University and The Serbian Language Department at The University Of Philology. But it wouldn`t surprise me that it happened the other way around because we use The Roman names for months, just like you guys in English. And when it comes to the languages, Croatians did everything possible to make Craatian differ from Serbian. They started inventing new words as subtitutes for words mostly used in both Croatian and Serbian. Some Croatian intellectuals were rolling their eyes at that time and of course some pronationalistic and war-loving did not.
Similar things happened on the Serbian side, but not concerning the language, more concerning Croatian people living in Serbia. There were attempts to ethnically cleanse Croatians from Vojvodina (autonomous part of Serbia).
Unfortunately, Croatians have succeeded doing that in 1995.
All in all, I can only wish the languages were the only consequence of that war.

 

[JacobFox]

Well, my major area of study is Japanese. I don't really find anything about it too difficult in itself. However, since I am working on my undergraduate degree and have non Japanese classes to take, I sometimes don't have all the time I would like to review my kanji every day. I don't know too many; I am up to about 300 characters and they are relatively easy to learn once you get the hang of them. However, it can be frustrating when everything else in life makes it hard for me to have time to work on it.

 

[BIGBULL29]

Well, my major area of study is Japanese. I don't really find anything about it too difficult in itself. However, since I am working on my undergraduate degree and have non Japanese classes to take, I sometimes don't have all the time I would like to review my kanji every day. I don't know too many; I am up to about 300 characters and they are relatively easy to learn once you get the hang of them. However, it can be frustrating when everything else in life makes it hard for me to have time to work on it.

Wonderful that you're studying Japanese!

Should you ever speak/read/write like an educated native speaker, all hats off to you - and I mean that.:wink:

 

[DiscoBoy]

How well do you do during visits back to Portugal?

Really well. I've never had a problem with communicating with anyone in Portugal. I went alone for 5 weeks when I was 12, staying with a close aunt and uncle of mine, and there weren't any issues communicating.

Some of my cousins get me to speak to them in English so they can better understand the language. I know a lot of Portuguese vocabulary, so they get me to translate a lot of [the larger] words.

Do some people assume you've lived there all your life?

Well, nobody's ever assumed (at least, not to my knowledge) I haven't lived there all my life, so I think most people just assume I'm a local. I have been yelled at and spoken about in English countless times. The reaction is always priceless when I respond in fluent English.

I typically get complimented on how well I speak when people learn I'm from Canada.

Or are there little giveaways that you're from elsewhere?

Umm, being dressed much less sharply than everyone else, haha. But otherwise, not really. I look it, I speak it, so I must be it.

 

[prepstudinsc]

I'm working at learning Hebrew at the moment with difficulty.

Me too, I know the letters, but when I put words together I second guess myself. At this point, it is just more about being confident. Learning languages as an adult is far more difficult than doing it as a child.

 

[Bbucko]

I do it purely for personal pleasure, as language learning is my life (certain ones perk my curiosity more than than others, of course). No, I don't expect any respect or financial reward for it, although it takes an incredible amount of effort and time to learn a tongue that is not native to you; and to master it - that is to speak/write/read it like an educated native speaker - is an accomplishment of accomplishments, even for those who are gifted for languages.

I meet more Francophones in SoFla than I did even in Boston; it's helped me at work occasionally to a degree I'd have never dreamed possible; it also works beautifully with Germans and other Euros, who find the concept of a completely Amerlook guy speaking that French completely endearing.

My Spanish is still at a the "Aye! Que culo, nino" phase. But the fact that it's intelligible and vaguely humorous adds points to my desirability factor. I'm not called Papi Rico 'cause I've got a big wallet, after all

However, I agree that learning languages is largely an exercise in self-growth, not precisely a money-maker. I prefer to think that it teaches me how to think, not just speak, differently.

 

[Hoss]

I've been looking at some of the threads here and it seems that quite a few members have an interest in learning foreign languages.

So I'm thinking with this thread we can discuss languages we have learned, difficulties we've had, tips and just anything related to learning a language different than your native tongue.

I'll start with a simple question, what's the most difficult part of learning a foreign language for you?

For me it's learning new vocabulary. That might be because I've mainly studied East Asian languages, but I always have to spend a lot of time memorizing vocab words.

Anyone else have a similar view? Any tips or suggestions?

Growing up there was a lot of Greek and Albanian (Tosk) being spoken and my 2 brothers managed them fairly well. I on the otherhand picked very few words up and in school wasn't able to learn German (which given my part German heritage was an embarassment:redface, and did only marginally well with Spanish (I passed and can grasp every 3rd word when it's spoken).

I have an inability it seems to learn new languages although there are some that argue that can't be true as I am able to understand numbers and their interactivities. I think language learning is a thing which probably requires greater strengths from 1 side of the brain. I base this on my brothers too since 1 is fluent in 3 languages, the other has mastered 5 but neither can add a few numbers together accurately.

 

[BiItalianBro]

I have no problem with the Latin based Romantic languages...with an Italian mother, half Italian father and extensive childhood spent in Latin America, it came easy to me. What does blow my mind is the phonology, diphthongs and structure of Germanic languages. I can connect the dots when I read it..and understand allot of spoken German/Dutch/Flemish from living in the Netherlands; but I would embarrass myself if I attempt to speak it.

 

[Calboner]

It could have happen, I wouldn`t be suprised. The biggest nationalistic garbage in my country is bred in three departments of Belgrade University: The Law School, The Department of History at The Philosophy University and The Serbian Language Department at The University Of Philology. But it wouldn`t surprise me that it happened the other way around because we use The Roman names for months, just like you guys in English. And when it comes to the languages, Croatians did everything possible to make Craatian differ from Serbian. They started inventing new words as subtitutes for words mostly used in both Croatian and Serbian. Some Croatian intellectuals were rolling their eyes at that time and of course some pronationalistic and war-loving did not.
Similar things happened on the Serbian side, but not concerning the language, more concerning Croatian people living in Serbia. There were attempts to ethnically cleanse Croatians from Vojvodina (autonomous part of Serbia).
Unfortunately, Croatians have succeeded doing that in 1995.
All in all, I can only wish the languages were the only consequence of that war.

It is several years since I read the book, and, as I said in parentheses, I may have gotten the two nationalities reversed in my recollection of the anecdote about using the wrong word for one of the months of the year (or was it a day of the week?). I do remember, though, the author reporting efforts to differentiate the languages by introducing new words.

 

[luka82]

It is several years since I read the book, and, as I said in parentheses, I may have gotten the two nationalities reversed in my recollection of the anecdote about using the wrong word for one of the months of the year (or was it a day of the week?). I do remember, though, the author reporting efforts to differentiate the languages by introducing new words.

It was probably the name of the month. The names of the months in the Croatian language have always differed from the names in Serbian.

Croatian-Serbian:

siječanj - januar
veljača - februar
ožujak - mart
travanj - april
svibanj - maj
lipanj - jun
srpanj - jul
kolovoz - avgust
rujan - septembar
listopad - oktobar
studeni - novembar
prosinac - decembar​

 

[helgaleena]

Vocabulary is the easy part for me. But then I did my grad work in linguistics of south Asia. It did dawn on me though that I was good at blending in wherever I have lived and sounding like those around me, but my actual ability to express myself is minimal. What comes from my mouth is hopelessly garbled multilingual hash, Finnish Danish French Hindi usually. I had to give up my TA work in Sanskrit because I had trouble keeping ahead of my students.
I try to stick to written language so I can proofread.


And in that I only know three alphabets-- Arabic, Devanagari, and Roman. Cyrillic would be helpful but it keeps stumping me.

 

[Calboner]

It was probably the name of the month. The names of the months in the Croatian language have always differed from the names in Serbian.

Croatian-Serbian:

siječanj - januar
veljača - februar
ožujak - mart
travanj - april
svibanj - maj
lipanj - jun
srpanj - jul
kolovoz - avgust
rujan - septembar
listopad - oktobar
studeni - novembar
prosinac - decembar​

That surprises me. Given that only one of the two nations uses the Latin-derived forms, I would have expected it to be Croatia rather than Serbia, as that is the one with stronger Latin influence, at least in terms of alphabet (Roman rather than Cyrillic) and church (Roman rather than Greek).

"Studeni" is an interesting term for November: it means "cool" or "chilly," doesn't it? (That's what it means in Czech.)

 

[luka82]

"Studeni" is an interesting term for November: it means "cool" or "chilly," doesn't it? (That's what it means in Czech.)

Yes! Cold.
Hladan in Serbian. But we sometimes use the word studeno for cold as well.

 

[MarkLondon]

... I really need to relearn Italian, it drives me wild how much I've forgotten, but the extent to which Spanish (which I speak better than Italian) and Italian blur in to one in my head is nightmarish...

Lol, I was holidaying in Seville with a Jewish princess who was fluent in Italian. She spoke Italian to the spanish people and if they didn't understand her she'd shout at them in Italian! That usually worked. They'd reply in Spanish and she'd understand them.

My Spanish was so bad I couldn't even say "I don't speak Spanish" in Spanish properly. I tried it on a little old lady who'd approached me at the bus station and she looked very confused for a few moments. Later, I realised I'd told her she didn't speak Spanish (habla/hablo ignorance). :redface:

I can deal with most tourist requirements in French, but I can't hold a social conversation in it, to my shame.

 

[JacobFox]

Wonderful that you're studying Japanese!

Should you ever speak/read/write like an educated native speaker, all hats off to you - and I mean that.:wink:

It will be quite the undertaking but definitely my goal...thanks for the hats off

 

[D_Roland_D_Hay]

I came to the United States when I was 7 years old. While English is my second language, I was determined to not have an accent. I worked hard at it and think I sound very American (haha). But when I get tired or have a few drinks, I sound like Enrique Iglesias

The hardest part for me learning English--to, two, too, their and there...used to kick my butt haha...

 

[wallyj84]

I came to the United States when I was 7 years old. While English is my second language, I was determined to not have an accent. I worked hard at it and think I sound very American (haha). But when I get tired or have a few drinks, I sound like Enrique Iglesias

The hardest part for me learning English--to, two, too, their and there...used to kick my butt haha...

To be fair, many Americans get that wrong as well.

Anyone here have any experience learning Chinese? If so, how did you get over the tones?