MDMA / Ecstasy

[jxh333]

Lately, MDMA usage at my Uni has exploded - out of the blue, and my boyfriend has jumped on the bandwagon. He knows I don't like him doing it. Someone at our uni recently died, one of his friends friends to be exact, from an ecstasy overdose - at that point we all assumed he would stop instantly - but he didn't. I know ecstasy in small doses isn't really that dangerous, well or so I thought.

He's admitted to me know that although he's not addicted, he no longer really enjoys nights out when he isn't on it. And whereas before he'd only do it at a certain club known for drugs with a group of people with everyone on it, he now has started taking it at normal clubs when he goes out with none-users and lies about using it.

Coincidentally, around the time he started using it he has started to lose weight, lose his appetite, when he does eat he feels sick.

His usage isn't out of control yet, it's once every week or so, which doesn't explain his sudden weight loss as it's only a temporary appetite suppressant, and no one else in our group of friends who uses it has lost any weight - is this a side effect of it?

I've told him I don't like it and he isn't allowed to see me whilst he's high, or for a few days after because the taste makes me gag, I don't want to be the controlling boyfriend who tells him to stop taking it as I don't think anyone really has the right to tell anyone to stop taking a certain drug, but I'm just worried for his health.

Does anyone on here have any experience with MDMA, is it linked to long-term weight loss? Any other side effects I should look out for?

Thanks x

 

[dolfette]

there are physical addictions and psychological addictions, such as gambling. just because E isn't physically addictive, doesn't mean he doesn't have a serious problem.

there are organisations that offer expert advice and support to the loved ones of addicts. i suggest you go straight to them.

be prepared to leave him if he doesn't want to get better.

 

[duderino]

Ecstasy - in it's pure form - is a powerful mood enhancer; it's also a powerful CNS stimulant - the MA in MDMA stands for MethAmphetamine.

Depending on the person it can be highly addicting. It's an awful, downward spiral, and addicts tend to hurt the ones they love the most. Be prepared for the worst - wear your emotional raincoat and understand that if he does develop a problem, it's a symptom of an underlying disease he's had since birth. (The new DSM V guidelines count addiction - to anything - as a real, somatic disease, not something one has a choice over; it is genetic, and it is fatal if left untreated. The best treatment is abstinence, but an addict has to hit his bottom before he's had enough pain to finally surrender and let go. If that happens - and when who knows - who knows if he's an addict? Your worry seems to point to legitimate concern, but the important thing to remember is that we are powerless over other people; the only person we can change is ourself - so we must be strong so we can help those sick and suffering who one day hit their bottom and reach out a desperate hand for help. An addict cannot recover alone.

What I'm getting at is: if he's and addict, and his addiction is affecting you negatively, you need to tell him immediately. Otherwise you will bear resentment, anger, mistrust, all the negative things nobody needs. Besides that, there's nothing you can do to change what will happen - by all means be transparent and forthcoming that you don't approve, but make sure you take care of yourself first. Co-dependency is a phrase born out of addiction research - it literally means a substance abuse addiction by proxy. Remember that we cannot change the people we love. We must love them for who they are, and help them when they want to change. But change only happens when you want it to happen.

And yes, be prepared to leave him if it doesn't get better. An addict will take you hostage, so to speak, and you will waste energy and love and walk away feeling robbed and empty. That is if he is truly addicted - that is, again, something that only a trained professional - or he himself - can diagnose.

Feel free to PM me anytime with questions - let's just say I have plenty of experience in this area, and it's a turbulent, awful, destructive, deceptive and counterintuitive disease (cunning, baffling and strong) and while there is plenty of info on how to avoid drugs (say no, thanks Nancy...), there is precious little accurate information about addiction in the general public.

I'd be happy to offer my wisdom, and to steer you towards the best resources available for those whose loved one has the disease of addiction.

Be honest, true to yourself (don't say ok when you're not happy with something), open, forthcoming, loving, understanding, caring - to yourself first, and then to others.

There's not much you can do right now otherwise except assess the situation and think about the relationship as you would any other time: are you getting more enjoyment out of it than hardship? Keep your ledger book honest and up to date, and it shouldn't take a full-scale audit for you to make a decision to either leave or remain with him.

Seek to comfort rather than be comforted - as long as you are not doing so at a detriment to your own health, mental or physical.

(you might want to talk to a social worker or a CASAC - certified alcohol and substance abuse counselor; I'm SURE they have them through your university's health center - to get more concrete advice and counseling. I highly recommend that.)

Hang in there and remember: this too shall pass.

Be grateful for what you have - enjoy the day; it is a divine gift.

Best,

Me

 

[duderino]

Just re-read your posting:

"He's admitted to me know that although he's not addicted, he no longer really enjoys nights out when he isn't on it. And whereas before he'd only do it at a certain club known for drugs with a group of people with everyone on it, he now has started taking it at normal clubs when he goes out with none-users and lies about using it."

That is basically a description of an addict. He lies about it. That means there's an ambivalence - in the root sense of the word; two strongly opposing sides of the ego - in a bit of a fight. The only reason to lie about it is because he's ashamed about it; if he's ashamed, then why is he taking it? See the paradox? He's lost control. He's powerless.

Do seek out professional counseling or at least a support group for those who are close to addicts. There is no time like now, and life is not a dress rehearsal.

Best of luck. I will pray for you and your boyfriend; he is ill.

Me

 

[Hand_Solo]

People who take too much X start to resemble mugwumps. It's better than getting hooked on the flesh of giant aquatic centipedes, but not by much.

 

[rayray]

Duderino gave you excellent advice..Try using your google search for more info about the drug.Don't be surprised if you see a skull and crossbones on these sites. You say he is taking it once a week or so. That sounds like a crock..Good luck and get out if he continues to use this deadly drug.He will drag you down the halls of hell if he spirals out of control..

 

[D_Alec_Baldtwins]

Duderino and others gave you excellent feedback. I haven't known any MDMA addicts, that came along later, but cocaine and meth were around when I was in college. I did some of that stuff, and was part of that culture for a while. I'll only say as the others did that these stimulants are really bad for you - they're VERY hard on your body. Tolerance develops quickly, and you have to do more and more to get a good high. The downward spiral can be steep and fast. It can be very hard to quit the stuff - few people I've known have had the discipline to do it themselves, and the more and the longer he does it, the more likely that he'll do damage to himself, including neurological and psychological changes, that may not be reversible.

 

[matelalique]

I will note with some cynicism that all of the responses you have received are from the US where addiction treatment is an enormous and cynical business. The 12-step-movement is an unabashed religious group saved from addiction by their discovery of a higher power (my reading is that an unhealthy habit is replaced by a physically healthy delusion).

In the UK, addiction treatment is on the public purse, and yet it happens, when it is necessary (not whenever you arrive at a hospital drunk, like in the US). I also note that you are a college student, and that many students dabble in college and then can't keep partying and doing their jobs in their early 20s.

That said, I think the weight-loss is concerning. Your task as a friend is to present this in a non-threatening manner, and to point out factual evidence. Your best bet is to get your buddy to the Uni-health system on a regular basis (if only for an annual checkup). Regular therapy might uncover what the problem actually is and why the guy needs this escape. 12-step programs will not uncover the problem, and will encourage him to pray the problem away, and if you think that will work for him, then send him along.

Please - keep talking to him, make sure he knows you are there for him emotionally. and the one point from the other posters that I agree with wholeheartedly is that you need to protect yourself. Don't give him money (for anything, like rent and food), and don't let yourself get sucked into the life of an addict.

 

[MrHangman]

I love ecstacy, but for some reason my dick doesn't work when I'm on it. That completely contradicts all of these "best sex ever" stories I've heard. But then again, whenever I take MDMA I get really, really cold.

 

[Hand_Solo]

I always found it way more sensual than sexual if that makes sense.

 

[dolfette]

I will note with some cynicism that all of the responses you have received are from the US

i take serious offence to that, knobend.

 

[dolfette]

BBC News | HEALTH | Ecstasy 'relieves Parkinson's Disease'

bit of a tangent but interesting none the less.

 

[D_Barney Plank]

I get super horned on x and love messing around on it,male or female,anyone lol

 

[xX_Sarah_Xx]

... Someone at our uni recently died, one of his friends friends to be exact, from an ecstasy overdose - at that point we all assumed he would stop instantly - but he didn't. I know ecstasy in small doses isn't really that dangerous, well or so I thought.

He's admitted to me know that although he's not addicted, he no longer really enjoys nights out when he isn't on it. And whereas before he'd only do it at a certain club known for drugs with a group of people with everyone on it, he now has started taking it at normal clubs when he goes out with none-users and lies about using it.

Coincidentally, around the time he started using it he has started to lose weight, lose his appetite, when he does eat he feels sick.

His usage isn't out of control yet, it's once every week or so, which doesn't explain his sudden weight loss as it's only a temporary appetite suppressant, and no one else in our group of friends who uses it has lost any weight - is this a side effect of it?

I've told him I don't like it and he isn't allowed to see me whilst he's high, or for a few days after because the taste makes me gag, I don't want to be the controlling boyfriend who tells him to stop taking it as I don't think anyone really has the right to tell anyone to stop taking a certain drug, but I'm just worried for his health.

Does anyone on here have any experience with MDMA, is it linked to long-term weight loss? Any other side effects I should look out for?

Thanks x

Seems like you need some decent info on XTC (there's a lot of "info" out there on the internet, but not all trustworthy), I had a course on toxicology last year in which the subject came up, so I quickly reread it and rougly summarize some known/scientific facts: (my own comments I added in italic)

- it was developed as a medical drug in 1914 by Merck as an appetite suppressant (which would explain why he lost weight and doesn't eat as he used to)

- one pill usually contains 75-150 mg MDMA (note the big difference in dosage, not all XTC is the same!)

- in 1950 the american army studied it as a neurotoxic agent and in 1970 they used it during psychotherapy (it's an entactogenic drug (inducing feelings and empathy, opening up the mind) and proven to be an effective treatment for post-traumatic stress syndrom). Since then it's made it's way to being used for recreational purposes (parties).

- farmacokinetics: the effects kick in after 30 minutes and last on average 4-6 hours

- effects: it releases serotonine in the brain nerve endings, it blocks serotonine reuptake and prevents (permanently! - effect lasts 1 week) serotonine degradation. This permanent inhibition of the degradation of serotinine happens by blocking an enzyme (tryptophan hydroxylase, for the science geeks ^^ ?correct translation) which has a turn-over (= rate the enzyme is produced) of about one week)
(this is a possible explanation of why your bf would only take about one pill a week - if he takes one sooner, it wouldn't have the same (full) effect)
This higher serotonine concentration in the brain generally gives a feeling of well-being, there's a higher need of company and social interactions are much smoother (people want to get cozy). They can feel euphoric or act reckless, loss of inhibitions. The pupil of they eye dilates, heart rate rises, body temperature rises. There can also be shaking, teeth grinding, muscle cramping and restlessness (they typically can't fall asleep). These effects are very divers and can be different for everyone, but that's the general scope.
After those 4-6 hours, the person will feel tired and depressed due to the serotonine depletion. Often they take a new pill to delay these effects, further depleting their serotonine storage levels.

- ! even a normal dose can cause myocardial infarction and fatal heart rythms, a person that dies from XTC did NOT necessarily overdose! There's been numerous reports in scientifical articles. A cardiac predisposition (for example when cardiac diseases run in the family) will up this chance but isn't essential. Every one of those cases was also combined with an extreme body temperature of T>40°C. (Note that this does not happen often, but there is a possibility. It's not my intention to scare people mentioning this, but I think it's important you're informed.)

- Chronical use results often in depression, paranoia, liver diseases (jaundice), troubles with jaw muscles and toxic neuropathy (lasting shortage of serotonine in the brain - the serotonine receptors in the brain are degenerated).

- The illegal production of XTC is easy, but also results in a teratogene (causes malformation of a fetus) substance, safrole. Since it's illegal, and purifying XTC is not very high on the drug dealers to-do list (it's costly)... you can do the math. Pregnant woman should never take XTC.


So far what was in the course. I definitely think there's a reason that XTC is illegal... (at least in Belgium).

...and no one else in our group of friends who uses it has lost any weight - is this a side effect of it?

This might be a sign that the others do not use it as much. He lies to others about using it, I would consider the fact that he might lie to you about it, as well.

He's admitted to me know that although he's not addicted, he no longer really enjoys nights out when he isn't on it. And whereas before he'd only do it at a certain club known for drugs with a group of people with everyone on it, he now has started taking it at normal clubs when he goes out with none-users and lies about using it.

This is a tell-tale sign of addiction.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this situation. You're right, if you're the one trying to prevent him taking XTC, you're "the bad guy", and it should be his own choice no matter what.
I'm afraid it's only going to get worse though. I would tell him what I know about the drug, and let it rest. Big chance that he's not informed about it as he should be. Big chance that he doesn't want to be either...

I hope you get through this, together. But battling an addiction is one of the hardest things, and chances are you will be the one who ends up hurt. Thread carefully. Prepare to walk away if you have to. Addiction is self-destruction, and it is hardest on the ones who love the addict... Good luck, stay strong. I really hope everything turns out okay for you.

 

[Endued]

You need to find out how much he's doing and in what scenarios before taking on board any suggestions. But to be perfectly honest, prefering a night on mdma to alcohol isn't weird in the slightest, and I wouldn't blame someone for lying about their use as there's still such a stigma about it.

For the weight loss, his appetite should only really be affected for a day after at most. If he regularly can't face food then he might well be doing it more regularly than he says.

Broadly speaking, I would say it's way too soon to brand him an addict until you get more info.

 

[jxh333]

Thanks for everyone's replies, they've been really helpful, especially xX_Sarah_Xx.

As for his usage, I don't think he is lying about the amount, we always stay over at each others so the only opportunity he has to do it is when I'm not around, which is only once or twice a night a week.

My concerns aren't so much for an 'addiction', although I appreciate everyone being precatious, i don't think he's at that stage yet, my fear is more of him getting to that level in the near future.

I'm sorry but 'duderino' addiction is not a disease that one has since birth - cancer is a disease, I find it offensive when people say drug/alcohol addicts have a 'disease', it's a bail out/excuse drummed into them my religious groups. I appreciate your words and your advice none the less.

I couldn't really care less about occasional drug use in clubs, I never would do it myself but experimenting in university is normal, my concerns come as he has started to lose weight, although weight loss might not be a side effect of MDMA, my theory is more that the medium-term depression and anxiety that comes from not being high are causing some sort of psychological eating problem.

Im leaving england soon for a few weeks for christmas, when I return I guess I'll revaluate the situation - I'm not alone in this by the way, luckily his best friend agrees with me and hates the drug even more, which I'm thankful for. I'll keep you all posted x

 

[Endued]

Im leaving england soon for a few weeks for christmas, when I return I guess I'll revaluate the situation - I'm not alone in this by the way, luckily his best friend agrees with me and hates the drug even more, which I'm thankful for. I'll keep you all posted x

Does he hate alcohol just as much? Or cannabis? Or tobacco?

 

[aninnymouse]

Does he hate alcohol just as much? Or cannabis? Or tobacco?

I think he meant hates Ecstacy even more than he does.

But, Yeah, I would be concerned for your bf. It seems like he is heading down the road to addicition/dependence on Ectacy.

Also, here's the thing about addiction/chemical dependency. Addicts are good at hiding what they're doing. They do it in secret, they deflect what's going on, and they mask the symptoms well. Up to a point.

IMO, addiction IS a disease. However, not one that someone has since birth. Yes, one can have a predisposition to it, just like a person can have a predisposition to depression, anxiety, etc. However, one is not born an alcoholic, Heroin addict, etc. It comes on by exposure to the addicting substance.

It sounds like your BF may be doing a lot more than you suspect. I think that you should perhaps talk to his other friend, and perhaps organize an intervention of some sort before things get too out of hand. You mentioned you're going to be leaving England for the holidays. This is going to be a crucial time. If possible, I'd see about doing something beforehand. It sounds like he's headed down a dark path, and time is of the essence.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

There is a lot of BS out there regarding addiction.

Here is the truth... ANYTHING that messes with brain chemistry is addictive.
Addiction is NOT defined by physiological withdrawal ( what the medical community USED to believe ) It is marked by long term alterations in the brain's response to stimuli.( i.e., alterations that persist even after the drug has been cleared)

ANY substance that affects serotonin or dopamine production, or uptake, is addictive.
This includes a LOT of stuff.

Some people are more susceptible to addiction than others.


The danger of long term drug abuse is that if, for example, it slows serotonin uptake... then the brain becomes saturated with serotonin. This produces the high.
The brain, however, is constantly seeking the correct balance of serotonin, and when the drug is present often enough or its effects are long enough lasting, the brain REDUCES natural production of serotonin to try and compensate. ( this response, or something like it, is why most drugs become less effective over use and why addicted users always increase frequency or dosages )

The net result is that it takes weeks or months for the brain to adjust its natural production of serotonin, dopamine and other chemicals. Or worse, its abilities to correctly regulate its own production of these chemicals might be damaged or altered. Instead of a surfeit of serotonin, ( the desired effect) the long term result is a drastic paucity of serotonin when the user is NOT on the drug. ( it doesn't just alter your mood while on it... it alters your mood in the opposite direction when OFF it.)

A drug that someone started to take because of the enhanced experience, rapidly becomes a drug that HAS to be taken just to feel normal... and the experience of being off the drug becomes far worse than what was once normal.

In short, psychoactive substances, taken often enough, destroy the brains ability to properly regulate mood, excitement, and pleasure... and can become the only means by which users can even feel these emotions, that used to be elicited thru ordinary experience, but no longer are.


This process is gradual, and so the user comes to believe that the drug is "improving" an experience that is 'normally' really dull and shitty.... when in fact what is occurring is that the drug is becoming less effective at elevating mood, but rather, is causing 'normal' to become a worse experience.

in other words, NOT high is not really 'dull'... it BECOMES increasingly dull and numb as a consequence of addiction.
Those, of course, is the primary mechanism that drives use... Not the high, but the adverse effects on brain response when the drug has been cleared.


You monkey with your brain's ability to balance your moods and experience at your extreme peril.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

For those who don't like detailed responses...

Drugs make you feel really good, but in doing so they make it so you are no longer ABLE to feel good without them. They make being sober worse.