Rape or not?

[TwasBrillig]

I've practiced law for many years and this is one I would have gotten wrong. My first inclination would have been to say that once consent to penetration is given, even if for a moment (as in this case), rape is no longer an issue. But, as some caselaw has recently shown, I would have been wrong:

"The crime of first-degree rape includes post-penetration vaginal intercourse accomplished through force or threat of force and without the consent of the victim, even if the victim consented to the initial penetration," the Court of Appeals wrote. Md. Court Rules Women Can Withdraw Sexual Consent - washingtonpost.com

This clearly reflects a newer standard society holds for relations of all kinds between men and women. While it is morally balanced, it makes me wonder how the Courts will handle issues such as the length of time between the "no" and withdrawal. It should at least make for some interesting testimony...and future decisions.

Now that does open a whole new world of ambiguity, doesn't it? Just when has non-consentable entry occured? Not long (large, satisfying)? enough? Forced? Substance abuse temporary inability to refrain?

 

[Jason]

The UK news is running right now with the statistic just published that only 6% of rape trials lead to a conviction. There is unease at the presumed high number of rapists who are going unpunished - and views advaned that we should find a way of getting more convictions. There is also unease at what may be a very high number of cases of malicious allegations. We have an unfortunate situation in Britain where a man can be tried and convicted by society, friends and family even if the court finds him not guilty.

The example at the head of the thread indicates a grey area. I wonder what sort of percentage of cases which get to courts in the UK are in one way or another in this sort of grey area. I suspect a lot.

 

[Principessa]

Sorry you got jerked around by such a nut case! I hate to hear stories like yours. No wonder guys get confused and think girls are just cock teases. :12:

I can't shake the feeling that had you entered her fully, she would have cried rape. You did the right thing, painful though it may have been. :redface:

 

[D_Tamerton Taintpussie]

I was 17 when something similar happened to me. My boyfriend and I had a really hectic argument and I ended up going to a house party with a guy I had kissed a few times before (he was 21 or 22). He went to get high (I didn't realise until later), and I had a glass of wine, smoked half a joint with someone and then went to a room on my own and fell asleep (there were a lot of older horny guys around that I wanted to avoid). Anyway, later on he came to find me, took me into a room with a double bed and proceeded to hold me and kiss me. I was still almost half asleep. I wasn't that into it but didn't push him away. He took off all my clothes and proceeded to stroke my body (without ever touching my clit or pussy) - just my breasts and the rest of my body. He did it for ages. Eventually I though it would be polite to reciprocate in some way, and so I sat up and bent down to suck him. The next thing I know he, in one (I now realise, quite practised motion), flips me on my back and enters me.

I wasn't turned on and he wasn't that big (he felt very different from my boyfriend). I was so shocked I just froze and didn't say anything. Went completely blank. He pulled out and came on my stomach, it was awful.

I ended up telling my boyfriend, and he decided to stay with me because we were in love (he was my first). For years I blamed myself (I was naked, I had been about to suck him off), but recently, I realised that I did feel like I was raped. I'm sure the guy concerned would never have seen it that way though.

I really wish I had been with someone as sensitive as the poster. The fact that you held back is pretty incredible. I really don't know many guys who would have done the same. In fact, none. I envy that girl.

I don't think she was crazy. Unless you have some Catholic training you have no idea how much of a mindfuck it can be. I do think she was selfish though. How could someone get off that much and not want to reciprocate the pleasure. Just wrong!

Kudos to you. Seriously

 

[MalakingTiti]

Are you crazy? That bitch wanted to be pounded. You should have fucked the shit out of her and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[nashboy]

good for you dude....you made the right decision FOR SURE. all guys need to be like you.

 

[nicenycdick]

I once had a lont-term friendship with a very funny, smart, attractive girl. When we weren't dating, we would get together and go out to dinner or a show. Both of us where unattached for a long time and had been going out together for months. Somehow, we both ended up back at my apartment, after a few drinks, talking about sex and the people we had "done it" with...and we started kissing and stroking. Eventually, I ended up with my dick inside her (this was twenty five years ago...don't expect me to remember ALL the details). I was stroking away when she suddenly exclaimed, "Wait...I can't do this." I remember just stopping for a moment, maybe waiting for her to change her mind (or come to her senses!)...after a few heartbeats, it became apparent that she really didn't think this was a good idea. I withdrew...very reluctantly.

I realize now that I did so because I really loved her (as a friend?) and that if she was not into it...what could I get out of it?

But if I'd continued...it would have been rape. Scary to think of...

 

[Bongo7]

you should have just gently put it in and took it easy on her. sometimes no means yes. she wanted it, she would have enjoyed it. if you treated her like gold afterwards and was there the next day, rape wouldn't even had been a consideration.

 

[3664shaken]

You did the right thing!

However, I know several girls like this that will say no, even forcefully but truly want you to do it. They find it a turn-on???????

Don't understand it, but they are out there.

However there are also the nut-cases that will cry rape. I know a guy who was accused of this in the US, it was his old girlfriend who he had lived with, showed up drunk and horny. They fucked the hell out of each other and then 3 days later the cops showed up.

The case never made it to trial, but the scars and insinuations have been lasting.

 

[milkyca]

you should have just gently put it in and took it easy on her. sometimes no means yes. she wanted it, she would have enjoyed it. if you treated her like gold afterwards and was there the next day, rape wouldn't even had been a consideration.

... and what you wrote is the exact opposite of what any sane or moral person should do. No never means yes, unless you want to land yourself in prison and have a big ol' sex offender label stuck on you for the rest of your life.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

In a lot of states, you'd be a convicted rapist, and a registered sex offender. Good thing you stopped.

 

[D_Kilkhampton Largehole]

Definitely no rape. She said she wanted to, how can it ever be rape?

I have experienced the same thing, but a lot worse. Three years ago I met a girl and it was like love at first sight. It developped into true love with the big L and it still is. I dated her for a year and we had oral sex, we did pretty much everything, except intercourse, because she is Morrocan and muslim and wanted to stay virgin until marriage. As desired by her family and her religion, after that year she married a muslim guy from Morroco, who moved to Belgium. Nevertheless, our love remained and it's even bigger than ever. We still have daily contact and we kissed many times after her marriage, her husband doesn't know anything. She always says she doens't enjoy sex with her husband even for one bit, and her only desire is me. She masturbates while thinking about me, and on the few occasions she has sex with her husband, she thinks about me. It's her biggest wish to have sex with me, but before her marriage she couldn't do it because of her religion, and after she couldn't do it because she doesn't want to cheat on her husband. Of course, a good guy like me, I've always respected that, however it's terribly hard for both of us. Our hearts are longing for each other desperately, and believe me, this whole situation has driven me insane and close to suicide on more than one occasion.

 

[milkyca]

Definitely no rape. She said she wanted to, how can it ever be rape?

Did you miss the part where she also said no? And how from the description given, she's clearly a mental case who isn't emotionally mature enough to have sex and is liable to do anything if she's pushed over the edge?

 

[D_Kilkhampton Largehole]

Did you miss the part where she also said no? And how from the description given, she's clearly a mental case who isn't emotionally mature enough to have sex and is liable to do anything if she's pushed over the edge?

Her mind said no, her heart said yes. I always follow my heart, it's a pity not everyone does, it's even tragic. Read my story.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Her mind said no, her heart said yes. I always follow my heart, it's a pity not everyone does, it's even tragic. Read my story.

I know a guy here who followed his heart. The girl lied on him later and now, he's a registered sex offender. They were both minors at the time. He served no time but his pic is on the state site for life.

 

[milkyca]

Her mind said no, her heart said yes. I always follow my heart, it's a pity not everyone does, it's even tragic. Read my story.

No, the real pity is acting on instinct when it can only lead to ruin. And no offense, but always following your heart doesn't get you anywhere in life. You've been invested with a measure of intelligence, rationality, and common sense. Use them.

 

[zaza]

Whatever the legal position is here, in my opinion this was not, and would not have been rape. If someone is happy enough to allow a cock to be rubbed all around the area surrounding the vagina they have to expect that it might slip in. She didn`t suddenly develop this taboo on penetration, so she should have mentioned it before. This might be easier said than done perhaps, but if someone feels that strongly but still want all that pleasure but expect the poor guy to experience supreme control,it should be done.

I would expect most guys who are worth anything to have reacted in the way the op did in this situation, however to me this is heading towards the point of no return, and the guy can not be blamed if penetration occurs, but should be expected to be sensitive and caring about it. Likewise so should the girl be sensitive and understanding towards the guy, who if he is anything other than an arsehole will probably be mortified.

For her to cry rape in this situation is an insult to all women that have been brutally raped, this is nothing to what they have been through.

 

[D_Handsomme Volgard Rentboye]

No means no.

i agree
No Means No!

 

[barkerfan]

I think you did the right thing. Even if it's just a technicality, no is no. She could have loved the hell out of it that night and been overtaken with guilt the next morning. Could have resulted in remorse and accusations. Better safe than sorry.

 

[deleted299888]

You're right, that chick did want it... but she had some serious issues to work out. It was better that you didn't force anything with her, she really wasn't mentally prepared, and would have been quicker to scream "rape" than she would have been to simply enjoy it. You saved yourself a lot of trouble.

Catholicism... ruined another one...