Straight men experimenting

[englad]

So I accidentally posted this post in the "ask a straight man" forum, because I temporarily mixed up that forum with the "ask a man". Thought for a change I would put this in ask a man, as it would be interesting to get more responses. Might also get men of all different orientations to talk about this.


Let's just leave it at this.

There is a reason why healthcare professionals do not say gay/bi men, they say MSM.

Not everyone's identity and behaviour match.

Kinsey's findings were that around 10% of men are gay/bi but 16% had had sex with another man, that was back in the 50's with a lot more social stigma than now.

If you ask have any straight men experimented, as was asked in that thread, it is placed in the past tense. If you placed the same standard on gay men (due to societal pressure of course, so it's a bit different) as you're placing on straight men, a lot of them would qualify as bisexual if you played the same game.

I don't understand why fumbling about with a guy 10 years ago and deciding it wasn't for you would equal permanent heterosexuality card revocation. Not saying that anyone should or shouldn't, but if anything if you tried it and decided it wasn't for you, well surely that would actually reassert your sexuality rather than alter it.

Of course many of them are in denial and I think a large majority of straight guys haven't, but there's also a whole bunch of categories of guys that would ranging between incredibly vain men who like the attention, it's an easy outlet, to ones who wanted to double check.

Now I do get that a lot of the negative responses from the straight posters will be because of the incessant, insensitive trolling threads titled "would you x, y, z another man". Because of the vast majority of them never would, but there's a little bit of it that does smell like insecurity.:

 

[palakaorion]

As a species were are far too enamored of labels. Just my two cents.

 

[englad]

@bigbull29 you can often be very insightful on the topic. Please add your two cents.

This thread is quite the graveyard compared to other ones with a different focus and direction on the topic.

 

[554279]

So I accidentally posted this post in the "ask a straight man" forum, because I temporarily mixed up that forum with the "ask a man". Thought for a change I would put this in ask a man, as it would be interesting to get more responses. Might also get men of all different orientations to talk about this.


Let's just leave it at this.

There is a reason why healthcare professionals do not say gay/bi men, they say MSM.

Not everyone's identity and behaviour match.

Kinsey's findings were that around 10% of men are gay/bi but 16% had had sex with another man, that was back in the 50's with a lot more social stigma than now.

If you ask have any straight men experimented, as was asked in that thread, it is placed in the past tense. If you placed the same standard on gay men (due to societal pressure of course, so it's a bit different) as you're placing on straight men, a lot of them would qualify as bisexual if you played the same game.

I don't understand why fumbling about with a guy 10 years ago and deciding it wasn't for you would equal permanent heterosexuality card revocation. Not saying that anyone should or shouldn't, but if anything if you tried it and decided it wasn't for you, well surely that would actually reassert your sexuality rather than alter it.

Of course many of them are in denial and I think a large majority of straight guys haven't, but there's also a whole bunch of categories of guys that would ranging between incredibly vain men who like the attention, it's an easy outlet, to ones who wanted to double check.

Now I do get that a lot of the negative responses from the straight posters will be because of the incessant, insensitive trolling threads titled "would you x, y, z another man". Because of the vast majority of them never would, but there's a little bit of it that does smell like insecurity.:

Have to ask but what does the MSM stand for? (will look it up shortly, had just never seen it)

I would tend to agree that many guys experiment and agree that you should not cast a life sentence on someone for something they did several years removed.

I think the problem you kind of hit upon is the non-stop stupid shit questions, which unlike yours here is thought out and not accusatory or inflammatory.

I think the insecurity cuts both ways, because from the average guy 'straight" perspective it feels like the trolls are on a digital "outing". What is to be gained by trying to get anyone to "confess" their sexuality? Let people be.

If someone says they like or dislike something that's fine. When you ask someone 250 times the same question it hits the bullshit level.

Not sure I agree with everything you have here but this one would fit the question/comment of the week for the forum if I had a vote.

 

[englad]

First off, thank you for responding. My intent is to have a frank exchange regarding this. I get it's a super thorny issue but of course we can't avoid talking about issues that can be uncomfortable. So I really appreciate your input.

Have to ask but what does the MSM stand for? (will look it up shortly, had just never seen it)

Men who have sex with men.

I would tend to agree that many guys experiment and agree that you should not cast a life sentence on someone for something they did several years removed.

I think the problem you kind of hit upon is the non-stop stupid shit questions, which unlike yours here is thought out and not accusatory or inflammatory.

Well exactly, principle difference between my thread and those is I'm looking for a frank discussion on the topic generally, those threads are simply looking for wank material and that is deeply insensitive, so I do understand why a lot of the straight guys on here do get really frustrated with it, I'm sure I would too in the same situation. If I can be totally candid with you though, I would like to imagine that some of the straight male posters get more introspective on the nature of what other men go through (because offline we are inundated with insensitive questions about our sexuality), but unfortunately I don't get that vibe much.

I think to be honest, there are probably a lot more guys out there that never experimented but have had same sex sexual fantasies in their lives, or once in a while watch gay porn or male solo videos for example, or are quite curious if I'm going to be blatant about it, a bout penises generally (think that would describe a fair few members of the site tbh).

I think the insecurity cuts both ways, because from the average guy 'straight" perspective it feels like the trolls are on a digital "outing". What is to be gained by trying to get anyone to "confess" their sexuality? Let people be.

You are right that gay/bi men can display a level of insecurity related to their sexuality. I think you're wrong about the flavour though. The biggest example I've seen of this is femphobia in the gay community, so many guys out there using bullshit terms like "straight acting" (how can you be straight acting by jumping into bed and having relationships with other men) or "masculine" or here of course "heterolike" (same shit as straight acting). So in essence because of homophobic stereotyping we experience, a lot of us make a conscious effort to prove our "masculinity". Of course you get this the other way round loads too, i.e. camp guys (fem) bashing straight passing guys (like myself to be honest). If you want a personal anecdote of what I experienced on the latter, I left it here:

https://www.lpsg.com/threads/would-...aight-or-be-self-evident.499666/#post-7091851

However what we don't do is ever try to make a conscious effort to PROVE our sexuality. We would never dismiss another gay man as not being gay, even if he had a long term sexual relationship with a woman in the past. I do get a strong vibe from a fair few of the straight posters they are trying to prove their heterosexuality, that's quite a different flavour than the insecurity gay men can sometimes have. So it does sometimes feel like some straight guys on here are trying to engage in a pissing contest about how "ungay" they are, "I would never sleep with a man" to "I would never even touch another man's cock" to "I would never even look at another man's cock" bla bla. That does give off a vibe of insecurity. In the most extreme examples certain sexual activities with WOMEN actually get labelled as a bit "bi" (particularly pegging).

I think also part of it is based on life experiences.. I mean when we are discovering our sexuality and also later on, we end up interacting with men identifying as straight quite a lot, anything from watching porn together (humorous addition on this one, once remember a female friend of mine at uni saying the image of a bunch of young women masturbating together was hilarious, because it's fairly inconceivable), to comparing, to kissing when drunk, to experimenting, to being propositioned by men identifying as straight (I got one of these off a co-worker once lol in an e-mail, didn't respond because he wasn't my type and I strongly believe in the phrase "do not shit where you eat"), to even moderate flirty banter with each other. I actually remember on the last one hearing a flat mate of mine just say "don't think I wasn't tempted mate".

I also have noticed that straight male friends of mine do sometimes get noticeably more affectionate with me, than they do with each other. Just little things like kissing me on the forehead or giving me longer hugs etc. I never find that arousing, but it is kind of touching in a way. I think men can be afraid of being tactile with each other even on a platonic degree, which is frankly odd when you think about it.

So basically I'd say they're not really trying to "out" straight guys. Sometimes on this site, it seems a lot depends on how you write the word "straight", if you put "str8" that has very different connotations here (open to male invitations), if you put "straight" that means well straight (closed to male invitations). So the reason these threads are always car crashes (and just like any car crash, it is hard not to rubber neck), is you have this equation:

Gay men come to the "ask a straight man" forum, and it looks like they're asking straight men, but I think deep down they are asking str8 men for wank material.

Straight men then respond in the way you'd expect, ranging from total indifference to revulsion (which on occasion can overstep, there is definitely a strong difference between saying "the idea of gay sex is disgusting" and "gays are disgusting).

Str8 men then come in giving gay men the wank material they were originally after.

If someone says they like or dislike something that's fine. When you ask someone 250 times the same question it hits the bullshit level.

Not sure I agree with everything you have here but this one would fit the question/comment of the week for the forum if I had a vote.

Oh of course, I think it is a classic example of the "lazy troll" variety, not bothering to check through these threads. That doesn't excuse it, it is still deeply insensitive, especially when you consider it is just asking for wank material (there's enough on that on the site as it is).

Thank you for the last comment, that is a strong compliment indeed.

 

[BIGBULL29]

I think what happens is, is that many straight-identifying men believe that attraction to the penis is equated with being gay. I don't understand where that comes from, considering all me have penises themselves. And, yes, the vast majority are aroused by viewing large penises in porn. After all, straight porn is full of them. Don't forget that straight porn is made by straight men for straight men.
Admitting your attraction to the penis doesn't mean in any way that you desire to "interact" with another penis. That's is commonly misunderstood. A man has to feel attraction to his penis to some degree to feel like a stud in order for the women to bring out the "man" in him. It's common sense.

Labels and "superficial" words and roles do little to help males express who they really are sexually-speaking. We've made some progress but have much, much more to do.

Even we were discussing women, we would never have threads like "Do straight women ever kiss another woman?", or "Can a woman be straight and like to play with another women's tits?"

I do believe that almost all men have a curious side but culture and natural lack of interest will inhibit any experimentation. There are a tiny minority of men who have zero interest in the penis or a man's body. They are either transsexual lesbians, or men who have extreme lesbian porn fetishes with no other porn interest. The latter still have at least some minimal attraction to the penis (male role is very present but very diminished). True transsexual lesbians, of course, have zero interest in males or male bodies.

 

[ronin001]

Alfred Kinsey: Liberator or Pervert?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/movies/alfred-kinsey-liberator-or-pervert.html

Interesting NY Times article

 

[twoton]

MSM? What does the mainstream media have to do with it? Other than forcing the homosexual agenda onto us.

Let me say this. Let me be clear. Look. There have been a number of times in my life when I could've "experimented" without anyone else, besides the other guy(s), knowing about it. There have been situations where, when alone with the other guy(s), the other guy(s) have made their "openness" known to me. Late at night at a bar more than once. On a week-long business trip a thousand miles from home. Rooming together at an out-of-town wedding. Rooming together on spring break. In my apartment.

I was never. curious. at. all., whether the guy was someone I had just met that evening, or someone I'd known for 20 years. Really.

 

[554279]

First off, thank you for responding. My intent is to have a frank exchange regarding this. I get it's a super thorny issue but of course we can't avoid talking about issues that can be uncomfortable. So I really appreciate your input.



Men who have sex with men.





Thank you for the last comment, that is a strong compliment indeed.

Forgive me, rough day. This is going to take me a few sittings to read lol. cheers

 

[englad]

I think what happens is, is that many straight-identifying men believe that attraction to the penis is equated with being gay. I don't understand where that comes from, considering all me have penises themselves. And, yes, the vast majority are aroused by viewing large penises in porn. After all, straight porn is full of them. Don't forget that straight porn is made by straight men for straight men.
Admitting your attraction to the penis doesn't mean in any way that you desire to "interact" with another penis. That's is commonly misunderstood. A man has to feel attraction to his penis to some degree to feel like a stud in order for the women to bring out the "man" in him. It's common sense.

Labels and "superficial" words and roles do little to help males express who they really are sexually-speaking. We've made some progress but have much, much more to do.

Even we were discussing women, we would never have threads like "Do straight women ever kiss another woman?", or "Can a woman be straight and like to play with another women's tits?"

I do believe that almost all men have a curious side but culture and natural lack of interest will inhibit any experimentation. There are a tiny minority of men who have zero interest in the penis or a man's body. They are either transsexual lesbians, or men who have extreme lesbian porn fetishes with no other porn interest. The latter still have at least some minimal attraction to the penis (male role is very present but very diminished). True transsexual lesbians, of course, have zero interest in males or male bodies.

Though some cisgendered lesbians do love gay male porn. That was a bit of a mind fuck when I found that out initially!

Alfred Kinsey: Liberator or Pervert?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/03/movies/alfred-kinsey-liberator-or-pervert.html

Interesting NY Times article

Too scared to click, heard about the toothbrushes.

 

[pain4anangel]

@englad

I hope it’s okay to post here. I just wanted to share my view as a woman openly into pegging. I’ve had so many men give the auto response of “I’m not gay” or even more offensive responses when I ask if they’re open to it (or milking, prostate massage). I simply tell them that last I checked, I’m a woman. There seems to be a shame that comes from a much deeper place. It bothers me on another level that somehow being gay or bi automatically means anal sex or anal stimulation. That somehow the possibility of romantic or genuine feelings for someone of the same sex doesn’t exist. The younger generations ( n the US at least) have been afforded a lot more freedom in expressing their sexuality. Sadly, there are still places (even in the US) that admonish and instill fear and worse - guilt - for having even the slightest desire towards the same sex. Brainwashing and even torture are used. Then there are the men who are taught to humiliate, belittle, and even hurt others who don’t fit the mold they were raised to believe.

Anyway, when I encounter said men who have such strong reactions to anal play, I feel sorry for them. Not that I want to force anyone to participate, but more so because somewhere along their journey, seeds were planted. Unfortunately, these seeds grow fear, misinformation, judgement, and loss.

I’m also a woman who is very turned on by male on male sexual activity (given I’m attracted to them). It’s not that common. It adds to my list of sexual proclivities that make it increasingly difficult to find a relationship lol.

 

[englad]

@englad

I hope it’s okay to post here. I just wanted to share my view as a woman openly into pegging. I’ve had so many men give the auto response of “I’m not gay” or even more offensive responses when I ask if they’re open to it (or milking, prostate massage). I simply tell them that last I checked, I’m a woman. There seems to be a shame that comes from a much deeper place. It bothers me on another level that somehow being gay or bi automatically means anal sex or anal stimulation. That somehow the possibility of romantic or genuine feelings for someone of the same sex doesn’t exist. The younger generations ( n the US at least) have been afforded a lot more freedom in expressing their sexuality. Sadly, there are still places (even in the US) that admonish and instill fear and worse - guilt - for having even the slightest desire towards the same sex. Brainwashing and even torture are used. Then there are the men who are taught to humiliate, belittle, and even hurt others who don’t fit the mold they were raised to believe.

Anyway, when I encounter said men who have such strong reactions to anal play, I feel sorry for them. Not that I want to force anyone to participate, but more so because somewhere along their journey, seeds were planted. Unfortunately, these seeds grow fear, misinformation, judgement, and loss.

I’m also a woman who is very turned on by male on male sexual activity (given I’m attracted to them). It’s not that common. It adds to my list of sexual proclivities that make it increasingly difficult to find a relationship lol.

Thank you for relating your own personal experiences, and I do agree it's so odd given that all guys have the same biological set up. Straight guys can experience the male g spot orgasm just as much as gay guys can. It is a bit sad when they would shut themselves off to something that might be really pleasurable for them, just because it's slightly less conventional in these views, or they bizarrely associate it as "gay", it isn't gay if you're doing that with a woman! FFS. Sex should just be a case of two (or more) consenting adults doing whatever feels good for each other.

I'm very happy for you to post here, it's possible the post might be removed, so I saw it in time and thought it would be good to quote you just in case it is. But if you like I can happily place this into the "ask a woman" forum too, so the women on the site can share their perspectives. I only posted it here because I was originally trying to encourage a room for discussion for men of different orientations to talk about it, but I certainly didn't want to shut out any women's perspectives because they add an extra level of insight to the discussion,.Perhaps the sub forum I chose might have been the wrong one.

I think it might be less uncommon than you'd think, you're certainly not the first woman that has said that to me.

 

[pain4anangel]

I had checked before writing to see if it said only men could post and didn’t see anything. Of course, I’m on my phone and there could be something I’m missing vs my laptop.

 

[englad]

I had checked before writing to see if it said only men could post and didn’t see anything. Of course, I’m on my phone and there could be something I’m missing vs my laptop.

Lol we've all done that, that's ironically the reason why I started the thread, because I mixed up the sub forums.

Another little irony I noticed actually rereading your post was that, though the guys who reacted to your suggestions for pegging that way, associate it as being something "gay" or "bi", equating anal stimulation with same sex desire (even if a woman does it), but the irony is most sex between two men isn't usually anal sex anyway, oral and mutual masturbation are a lot more common.

 

[Mister2101]

I had checked before writing to see if it said only men could post and didn’t see anything. Of course, I’m on my phone and there could be something I’m missing vs my laptop.

Unfortunately, you may still be removed from this forum. I think that would be unfortunate, because your comments give a different and interesting perspective. Your comment is interesting, respectful, and insightful. Thanks for sharing.

 

[pain4anangel]

Lol we've all done that, that's ironically the reason why I started the thread, because I mixed up the sub forums.

Another little irony I noticed actually rereading your post was that, though the guys who reacted to your suggestions for pegging, associate it as being something "gay" or "bi", equating anal stimulation with same sex desire (even if a woman does it), but the irony is most sex between two men isn't usually anal sex anyway, oral and mutual masturbation is a lot more common.

There’s no section for “ask everyone/anyone” though. Are you supposed to just post in multiple areas?

As for gay = anal sex, I was also thinking about things said by ignorant politicians, lawmakers, religious organizations, and those on the board of various community platforms. That’s an entirely different discussion though lol.

Unfortunately, you may still be removed from this forum. I think that would be unfortunate, because your comments give a different and interesting perspective. Your comment is interesting, respectful, and insightful. Thanks for sharing.

That’s okay. Thank you very much for the kind words.

 

[englad]

Unfortunately, you may still be removed from this forum. I think that would be unfortunate, because your comments give a different and interesting perspective. Your comment is interesting, respectful, and insightful. Thanks for sharing.

Have you got any suggestions for a thread move to try and stop that happening?

 

[englad]

There’s no section for “ask everyone/anyone” though. Are you supposed to just post in multiple areas?

As for gay = anal sex, I was also thinking about things said by ignorant politicians, lawmakers, religious organizations, and those on the board of various community platforms. That’s an entirely different discussion though lol.



That’s okay. Thank you very much for the kind words.

We so need an ask everyone forum.

 

[Mister2101]

Have you got any suggestions for a thread move to try and stop that happening?

I'm sorry, but I do not---other than posting in the "Sex with a large Penis" forum. People do ask questions there as well.

 

[BIGBULL29]

It is interesting that many homophobes no very little about the group of men they enjoy attacking. Many gay men do not engage in anal sex. In fact, there are some gay men who barely have sex with their partners. They simply want same-sex intimacy.

It is shame that every one cannot get on the same page so we can better understand each other. That's not going to happen, I'm afraid.

No one is saying that all men are secretly gay or bi. But that is what is being believed by a small majority.

The more you try to convince people you're not gay or bi, or even curious on here, the more people will think you have latent homosexual desires. Hatt_101, anyone? Simply be quiet and live out what you know to be true about yourself.

Why is it so important to prove to online strangers your true sexual orientation? Why would any of us really care what is in the recesses of your mind. You're anonymous on here, for cryin' out loud. What gives? Deep-seated insecurities? That's all I can think of.

By the way, sorry to Mike Pence, for promoting that evil homosexual agenda. But, unlike Joy Behar, I will not be apologizing to him, though I truly wish him enlightenment.