Does anyone know what is the ideal level of testesterone? What level is needed in order to increase muscularity and hirsuteness? What level is too high?
Testosterone levels
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B_stanmarsh14
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Guess levels depend on body type and age in general (T-levels tend to drop, the older you get), but other than that, I have no idea.
Would like to know some sort of aprox scale, as to what the ideal levels are.
Would like to know some sort of aprox scale, as to what the ideal levels are.
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It depends on who you ask. My endocrinologist told me that ideal/normal levels are between 400-700.
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Riven650
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Our testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the 24hour day, and also vary depending upon diet, exercise, and psychological influences (ie. feeling competitive with other guys, falling in love, or lust, etc.) Furthermore, a 'normal' T level for one man is not the same as 'normal' for another. So you have to see quoted levels as a very very rough guide only.
More important than worrying about levels (numbers) is to maintain your health in general. If you have signs of low testosterone (lack of energy and libido, loss of strength and muscle mass, dry skin, etc.) then it might be worth getting your doctor to check your hormone levels. But, we can't really halt the passage of time and, sadly, we do slowly lose our manly attributes as we age, and as Silvertip pointed out, taking extra testosterone has it's dangers.
More important than worrying about levels (numbers) is to maintain your health in general. If you have signs of low testosterone (lack of energy and libido, loss of strength and muscle mass, dry skin, etc.) then it might be worth getting your doctor to check your hormone levels. But, we can't really halt the passage of time and, sadly, we do slowly lose our manly attributes as we age, and as Silvertip pointed out, taking extra testosterone has it's dangers.
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Riven650
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Naturally high testosterone levels aren't necessarily a bad thing. But most prostate cancers are accelerated by testosterone, and when diagnosed, one of the treatments is castration or testosterone blocking drugs (effectively the same thing) to slow down the progress of the cancer. This doesn't mean that if you're a high T guy you should worry, but it suggests that taking extra T might increase your risk, in the same way as HRT increases women's risk of breast cancer.
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What I meant was that some guys take supplementary T, or T boosting drugs, which can result in unnaturally high T levels. But your natural levels are not a problem. Your body hair is inherited and doesn't necessarily indicate problem T levels.
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There was a 'regular' at the gym who was using (something) gel- for low testosterone- came in a small mayo type packet and he would apply it to his belly after the shower (and then be sure to wash his hands and let it air dry). He got several looks from the regulars- we were semi-friends, and he explained about the low testosterone- seemed to really help him (that, and the gym, diet change etc...) but you COULD see more pep in his step/happiness....
Oh man! I'm VERY worried now... I had to go in for testing as I felt that I couldn't really get an erection or keep on up for long. I am only 24. They tested my Testosterone levels and the results were
Testosterone Total: 81 L
Reference range 250 to 1100
unit: ng/dL
Testosterone Free : 20.2 L
Reference 35.0 to 155.0
Unit: pg/mL
That's waaay lower than a normal 24 year old! What should I do? Demand some testosterone creams or pills or something to bring that up? When I researched symptoms of low T- Levels I have most of them...
Testosterone Total: 81 L
Reference range 250 to 1100
unit: ng/dL
Testosterone Free : 20.2 L
Reference 35.0 to 155.0
Unit: pg/mL
That's waaay lower than a normal 24 year old! What should I do? Demand some testosterone creams or pills or something to bring that up? When I researched symptoms of low T- Levels I have most of them...
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Just make sure you see an endocrinologist. They will make sure you get the proper treatment.
The "normal" level of test can also vary among men and what is normal for you may not be for me. I felt my test levels were los a number of years ago but when I was tested they were WAY above normal BUT low for ME. I can't even imagine what they were like when I was younger. Because my levels were naturally higher than most I was gifted to put on muscle mass quite easily.
I'm doing testosterone replacement therapy. Have been doing so for over a year-and-a-half. I inject myself with Cypionate, a form of testosterone with the same chemical formulation of natural human testosterone, twice a week. (I used to do it once a week, but decided to take half the dose twice a week instead. I just like it better.)
Anyway, if a guy doesn't have prostate problems/cancer/issues, then extra testosterone is not supposed to increase your chance of prostate cancer or problems or issues in the future. In fact, medical studies reported by the New England Journal of Medicine have stated that the opposite is true and that if, done under medical supervision, an older man maintains a level of testosterone equivalent to that of a 25 year old, then his chances of having prostate cancer, etc, actually decreases.
The number to look at is the free testosterone. That is the greater indicator of what will produce muscle growth and promote fat loss. There are two different scales. The one that I'm accustomed to says the normal level of free test is 7.2-24. A 25 year old, however, should have a level of about 35. My levels went from 7.2 to 35 in a matter of nine months. At the six-month point, I had my second body scan and had lost six pounds of fat and gained twelve pounds of muscle. For me that was pretty incredible.
Also, with the increase of testosterone one will also see an increase of Human Growth Hormone. This aids in fat loss and muscle growth as well.
My blood tests consistently come back positive, meaning there are no issues with PSA levels, cholesterol levels, etc. Everything thus far has been nothing but positive with the exception of elevated estrogen production. For that I take Arimidex which blocks the formation of estrogen. My blood tests show it's doing exactly that.
So stop worrying if you have high levels of testosterone. It's a good thing. The problems generally start when your testosterone begins to drop.
Anyway, if a guy doesn't have prostate problems/cancer/issues, then extra testosterone is not supposed to increase your chance of prostate cancer or problems or issues in the future. In fact, medical studies reported by the New England Journal of Medicine have stated that the opposite is true and that if, done under medical supervision, an older man maintains a level of testosterone equivalent to that of a 25 year old, then his chances of having prostate cancer, etc, actually decreases.
The number to look at is the free testosterone. That is the greater indicator of what will produce muscle growth and promote fat loss. There are two different scales. The one that I'm accustomed to says the normal level of free test is 7.2-24. A 25 year old, however, should have a level of about 35. My levels went from 7.2 to 35 in a matter of nine months. At the six-month point, I had my second body scan and had lost six pounds of fat and gained twelve pounds of muscle. For me that was pretty incredible.
Also, with the increase of testosterone one will also see an increase of Human Growth Hormone. This aids in fat loss and muscle growth as well.
My blood tests consistently come back positive, meaning there are no issues with PSA levels, cholesterol levels, etc. Everything thus far has been nothing but positive with the exception of elevated estrogen production. For that I take Arimidex which blocks the formation of estrogen. My blood tests show it's doing exactly that.
So stop worrying if you have high levels of testosterone. It's a good thing. The problems generally start when your testosterone begins to drop.
Testosterone levels are extremely variable.
I am saddened to see some misinterpretation here on one thing.
A high testosterone level will NOT I repeat NOT cause cancer.
The only kind of tumor affected at all is called an adenocarcinoma. In men this type of tumor is prostate, testicular or breast related but here are some interesting stats.
The highest incidence of these kinds of cancer are NOT in young men. High DHT levels can, if this kind of cancer is already present accelerate it's development, but it will not cause it.
At the same time research is progressing on this very subject.
If elevated testosterone and DHT levels were the "cause" the highest concentrations and danger times for that kind of cancer would be when males were between ages 13-25. The facts are that the highest danger levels for adenocarcinoma cancer is as male menopause or "andropause" sets in and levels have dropped substantially. This means that we are talking age 60 and over here. . . . . .
Next. . . .
The best test bed you have is that of HIV patients receiving high dosages of anabolic steroids for the wasting syndrome associated with both the retrovirus itself and with the drugs used to treat or prevent replication of the retrovirus.
If high testosterone was was the "causative" agent here, these same HIV patients who already have compromised immune systems would be dropping of adenocarcinoma in large numbers. The statistics do NOT back that up in any manner.
Understand that as we age the problem is balance. As the testosterone level falls other hormones gravitate to the same receptor sites and this is particularly true of Estiadol (estrogen) There are some indicators right now that are being explored with regards to an Estiadol metabolite being the cause of prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.
The average range has already been stated here and in the U.S. system it ranges between 400-700 on the Serum testosterone level. Remember that we are talking the law of averages here. There was a fellow I knew personally in Palm Springs who was under study because without supplementation his serum testosterone level was over 1,200.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For years, I have screamed and jumped up and down at younger men to have their testosterone levels taken both serum and free floating. According to medical guidelines the really disgusting part is that most MD's will not replace testosterone until it gets so low as to be insane, and other symptoms such as "bitch tits" have started to make an appearance.
The guidelines have one glaring exception stating that if the level on past medical records has been markedly higher that it can be replaced. What this means is that if you have a recorded level of 800 at age 18 and at age 25 you have a recorded level of less than 500 the MD can without fear of prosecution for prescribing steroids (which is the issue) treat you for male hypogonadism. It is VERY common in younger men.
Now, there are in fact problems with diagnosis and replacement.
To do it RIGHT (which nobody does) you need tests with the following hormone levels:
Serum Testosterone
Free Floating Testosterone
FSH
Estiadol
Prolactin
The first two most of you are familiar with, FSH is follicle stimulating hormone and what this is is the command hormone from the pituitary that tells your testicles to go into warp drive.
If your FSH levels are high with low testosterone the case, this means that the testicles are simply no longer producing and they are receiving the order in the form of the control hormone. If your FSH levels are low this means that the cause is pituitary in origin.
The Estiadol (Estrogen) levels are important because Estiadol competes for the same receptor sites. If the testosterone is above bottom level norms in both serum and free floating the MD should before prescribing testosterone prescribe an Estiadol (Estrogen) blocker. This allows more of what you make to be utilized.
The prolactin relates to your erectile capability. Prolactin is used as a control hormone in men while in women it is used for lactation. Elevated prolactin levels in men does not automatically result in the ability to breast feed, but it has major effects on mood, including depression and it also plays a role in erection capability and performance.
If the levels are elevated you will show signs of E.D. and if it is raised enough, E.D. will definitely be a part of your life on some level.
To treat properly it involves low dosage injections and not one every two weeks. The longest acting testosterone ester is Cypionate which is marketed under the trade name of "Depo Testosterone". A single injection peaks in blood serum level on the third day after the injection. This means that if you take an injection on Monday your level peaks on Wednesday and is back in the cellar by Friday. In order to make this work the dosage has to be very high and this creates a "yo-yo" effect. If done with dosages that are high enough over time there will be enough retained in the fat of the body to begin to raise up the valleys to higher levels.
This should in fact be broken up to where there is a tiny injection of a lower dosage at least once per week. This is better. Then in addition there should be a transdermal cream which is an Estrogen blocker and a very low dosage of DHT. The DHT needs to be adjusted depending on the findings of the Free Floating Level. Usually it is extremely minimal.
Now at 90 day intervals the testosterone injections need to be halted and in their place should be injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin which preserves the testicular function you have and prevents testicular atrophy.
While DHT is not read by the Pituitary unless the levels are outrageous and it will not shut down testicular production, testosterone cypionate definitely will do this and it will have a profound effect on the pituitary axis within 90 days of the initial administration.
If the MD lets this go YOU pay a heavy price. Atrophy begins and the truth is that once it takes place over time it will take tons of HGC to get back even 75% of what you lost. Losing testicular size is easy getting it back is not.
If prolactin levels are elevated the prolactin antagonist can be incorporated into the cream portion OR it can be done as a pill. The pill, normally used in higher dosages for a type of tumor called a prolactinoma is used in microscopinc amounts when it is used to control higher prolactin levels without a tumor causing them. We are talking one pill split in half and one half of that pill on Monday and the other half on Thursday or Friday.
The sad fact here is that about 80% of the men who truly deserve treatment for male hypogonadism will not get it. Insurance companies historically do not like paying for this considering this treatment a "luxury" and not a necessity. Others will pay for the testing and not the treatment, and still others will pay a small percentage and leave you hung out to dry for as much as they can.
If that were not a problem the lack of competency in most MD's on this subject is staggering. Some will just flat refuse to do it period because they are worried about being accused of being a "steroid pipeline".
When looking for an MD to do this you really have a difficult time. The best thing to do is to look at men who routinely as part of their practice treat HIV patients. They will have at least some education on this and will be far more likely to treat you even at a younger age and not kick you out the door.
This is a road with which I personally am very familiar. Be prepared to hear tons and tons of outdated inaccurate information and be prepared to be denied treatment by a few if you do not pursue this correctly. When it comes to this you will be told things by licensed MD's that have no basis in fact and which they statistically cannot back up. If you expect the problems before hand it is far less likely to make your blood boil.
Good Luck. . . . .
I am saddened to see some misinterpretation here on one thing.
A high testosterone level will NOT I repeat NOT cause cancer.
The only kind of tumor affected at all is called an adenocarcinoma. In men this type of tumor is prostate, testicular or breast related but here are some interesting stats.
The highest incidence of these kinds of cancer are NOT in young men. High DHT levels can, if this kind of cancer is already present accelerate it's development, but it will not cause it.
At the same time research is progressing on this very subject.
If elevated testosterone and DHT levels were the "cause" the highest concentrations and danger times for that kind of cancer would be when males were between ages 13-25. The facts are that the highest danger levels for adenocarcinoma cancer is as male menopause or "andropause" sets in and levels have dropped substantially. This means that we are talking age 60 and over here. . . . . .
Next. . . .
The best test bed you have is that of HIV patients receiving high dosages of anabolic steroids for the wasting syndrome associated with both the retrovirus itself and with the drugs used to treat or prevent replication of the retrovirus.
If high testosterone was was the "causative" agent here, these same HIV patients who already have compromised immune systems would be dropping of adenocarcinoma in large numbers. The statistics do NOT back that up in any manner.
Understand that as we age the problem is balance. As the testosterone level falls other hormones gravitate to the same receptor sites and this is particularly true of Estiadol (estrogen) There are some indicators right now that are being explored with regards to an Estiadol metabolite being the cause of prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.
The average range has already been stated here and in the U.S. system it ranges between 400-700 on the Serum testosterone level. Remember that we are talking the law of averages here. There was a fellow I knew personally in Palm Springs who was under study because without supplementation his serum testosterone level was over 1,200.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For years, I have screamed and jumped up and down at younger men to have their testosterone levels taken both serum and free floating. According to medical guidelines the really disgusting part is that most MD's will not replace testosterone until it gets so low as to be insane, and other symptoms such as "bitch tits" have started to make an appearance.
The guidelines have one glaring exception stating that if the level on past medical records has been markedly higher that it can be replaced. What this means is that if you have a recorded level of 800 at age 18 and at age 25 you have a recorded level of less than 500 the MD can without fear of prosecution for prescribing steroids (which is the issue) treat you for male hypogonadism. It is VERY common in younger men.
Now, there are in fact problems with diagnosis and replacement.
To do it RIGHT (which nobody does) you need tests with the following hormone levels:
Serum Testosterone
Free Floating Testosterone
FSH
Estiadol
Prolactin
The first two most of you are familiar with, FSH is follicle stimulating hormone and what this is is the command hormone from the pituitary that tells your testicles to go into warp drive.
If your FSH levels are high with low testosterone the case, this means that the testicles are simply no longer producing and they are receiving the order in the form of the control hormone. If your FSH levels are low this means that the cause is pituitary in origin.
The Estiadol (Estrogen) levels are important because Estiadol competes for the same receptor sites. If the testosterone is above bottom level norms in both serum and free floating the MD should before prescribing testosterone prescribe an Estiadol (Estrogen) blocker. This allows more of what you make to be utilized.
The prolactin relates to your erectile capability. Prolactin is used as a control hormone in men while in women it is used for lactation. Elevated prolactin levels in men does not automatically result in the ability to breast feed, but it has major effects on mood, including depression and it also plays a role in erection capability and performance.
If the levels are elevated you will show signs of E.D. and if it is raised enough, E.D. will definitely be a part of your life on some level.
To treat properly it involves low dosage injections and not one every two weeks. The longest acting testosterone ester is Cypionate which is marketed under the trade name of "Depo Testosterone". A single injection peaks in blood serum level on the third day after the injection. This means that if you take an injection on Monday your level peaks on Wednesday and is back in the cellar by Friday. In order to make this work the dosage has to be very high and this creates a "yo-yo" effect. If done with dosages that are high enough over time there will be enough retained in the fat of the body to begin to raise up the valleys to higher levels.
This should in fact be broken up to where there is a tiny injection of a lower dosage at least once per week. This is better. Then in addition there should be a transdermal cream which is an Estrogen blocker and a very low dosage of DHT. The DHT needs to be adjusted depending on the findings of the Free Floating Level. Usually it is extremely minimal.
Now at 90 day intervals the testosterone injections need to be halted and in their place should be injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin which preserves the testicular function you have and prevents testicular atrophy.
While DHT is not read by the Pituitary unless the levels are outrageous and it will not shut down testicular production, testosterone cypionate definitely will do this and it will have a profound effect on the pituitary axis within 90 days of the initial administration.
If the MD lets this go YOU pay a heavy price. Atrophy begins and the truth is that once it takes place over time it will take tons of HGC to get back even 75% of what you lost. Losing testicular size is easy getting it back is not.
If prolactin levels are elevated the prolactin antagonist can be incorporated into the cream portion OR it can be done as a pill. The pill, normally used in higher dosages for a type of tumor called a prolactinoma is used in microscopinc amounts when it is used to control higher prolactin levels without a tumor causing them. We are talking one pill split in half and one half of that pill on Monday and the other half on Thursday or Friday.
The sad fact here is that about 80% of the men who truly deserve treatment for male hypogonadism will not get it. Insurance companies historically do not like paying for this considering this treatment a "luxury" and not a necessity. Others will pay for the testing and not the treatment, and still others will pay a small percentage and leave you hung out to dry for as much as they can.
If that were not a problem the lack of competency in most MD's on this subject is staggering. Some will just flat refuse to do it period because they are worried about being accused of being a "steroid pipeline".
When looking for an MD to do this you really have a difficult time. The best thing to do is to look at men who routinely as part of their practice treat HIV patients. They will have at least some education on this and will be far more likely to treat you even at a younger age and not kick you out the door.
This is a road with which I personally am very familiar. Be prepared to hear tons and tons of outdated inaccurate information and be prepared to be denied treatment by a few if you do not pursue this correctly. When it comes to this you will be told things by licensed MD's that have no basis in fact and which they statistically cannot back up. If you expect the problems before hand it is far less likely to make your blood boil.
Good Luck. . . . .
