why

I recently had this issue pop up in my life, not me but my nephew. Couple months old now and I was playing cards with m brother in law when I heard. Wanted to ask him why and say something but I kept my mouth shut since it was already done and there would be no point trying to argue with him and my sis over it.

Personally I see no reason to, just wash your baby and teach them how to wash their bodies. It isnt that hard, why waste time and money on it?
 
@ Phil Ayesho

That's total nonsense.

Circumcision is medically needless in a developed country, as every Western medical association apart from the American (who earn the most money with their currently high rates) confirms. 37 medical doctors from 19 different countries tore the AAP argumentation apart right after the AAP had questionably changed their policy concerning said penis operation.
Most comparable, industrialized and developed nations have lower incidences of STDs than the USA and the vast majority of men in those developed countries is not circumcised.

Comparing circumcision with vaccination is brashly impertinent. It's not even comparable. A natural penis doesn't kill anyone (if anything, it's idiotic or hazardous behaviour that does), a virus like Hepatitis-B does indeed kill people quite regardless of their behaviour.

Non-religious circumcision in the English-speaking world originated as a believed instrument to prevent boys from masturbating and has been kept up because it became a part of American culture. Culture takes, regardless of its specific merit or harm, a lot of time to change.
 
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I love a nice cut cock to suck on. Always loved cut cock, I was uncut until about 12 years ago and had to have surgery due to a growth that they thought might be cancer. I guess being uncut - I loved the cut cock. Now I love both as long as they are CLEAN!!! Smell good- and taste good. I LOVE cum too. I cant stand a dirty cock cut or uncut. I don't know how some men just don't wash down their. I know a lot of straight men who wont wash their asshole either. I guess they are afraid to touch it thinking it would make them gay or something.
 
There's a lot of horseshit ideas being expressed.

Here's the answer. Way back when... Syphillis and Gonorhea were a scourge. The U.S., being a progressive nation, and with a strong interest in public health and science, conducted epidemiological studies and found that, among jews, the transmission rates of these diseases were less than half the rest of the population… and it wasn't because they were more faithful.

Routine Infant Circumcision was proposed as a public health measure to try and stem the epidemic of these diseases…

20 years later, data showed clearly that it worked. The rates of STD infection across the board dropped dramatically, and these devastating diseases actually became RARE for the first time in history.

Today… there is a group of uneducated, ignorant fetishists, absolutely obsessed with their foreskins or lack thereof who are trying to push an agenda to eliminate circumcision of infants under the claim that "men" can decide to have the procedure when they come of age if they choose. ( while they secretly know that most men would be afraid to, and that circumcision as an adult does not have as good a result as when done in childhood. )

These people are as misguided as the doofi who oppose vaccinating children against deadly diseases.


They are particularly insipid in light of the fact that Antibacterial Resistance to both vaccinated diseases and STDs is on the rise… meaning that these diseases, once caught, are becoming Less and Less treatable with each passing year.
In an age of increasing resistance to antibacterials, we are losing a big part of how we have kept these diseases in check to the point where morons who have never HAD them BECAUSE of widespread circumcision and effective cures, feel so safe that they are willing to render illegal one of the most effective Preventative measures against them.


Recently, the World Health Organization, searching for a solution to the pandemic of AIDS in Africa supported studies of Circumcision. They, TOO, found that circumcision was significantly effective in reducing transmission rates of all major STD's including HIV.

So, to the OP… THAT is why most guys in the US are cut. And that is why fewer are being cut, today, than was the case only 25 years ago.

Because it literally saved lives and improved public health… fewer infected means fewer people exposed to infections.



Anyone saying it had anything to do with masturbation is simply ignorant.

*ROFLMFAO*

Wow. Just......wow. THIS is horseshit. With bullshit on top.
 
@ Phil Ayesho

That's total nonsense.

Circumcision is medically needless in a developed country, as every Western medical association apart from the American (who earn the most money with their currently high rates) confirms. 37 medical doctors from 19 different countries tore the AAP argumentation apart right after the AAP had questionably changed their policy concerning said penis operation.
Most comparable, industrialized and developed nations have lower incidences of STDs than the USA and the vast majority of men in those developed countries is not circumcised.

Comparing circumcision with vaccination is brashly impertinent. It's not even comparable. A natural penis doesn't kill anyone (if anything, it's idiotic or hazardous behaviour that does), a virus like Hepatitis-B does indeed kill people quite regardless of their behaviour.

Non-religious circumcision in the English-speaking world originated as a believed instrument to prevent boys from masturbating and has been kept up because it became a part of American culture. Culture takes, regardless of its specific merit or harm, a lot of time to change.

^ Exactly. Well said.

And to say a foreskin is vestigial and nonfunctional is in itself a statement made out of utter ignorance of penis anatomy and function. For just one example, why is it that meatal stenosis is exceedingly rare (a small fraction of 1%) in intact penises but relatively common at 10-11% of cut penises for guys who had RIC? Because of meatal stenosis, I hated dealing with split urine streams from partial "morning wood" such that I finally did a meatotomy. A meatotomy cuts the webbing of tissue that closed off part of the full width of the urethral meatus. I now have a meatus opening that matches the urethra size at the end of my penis, and I deal no more with split morning urine streams with some urine missing the toilet. And this example is only with regard to the protective function of the glans by the foreskin and not the additional function such as a skin gliding motion during intercourse.
 
But all of this is moot. When your children or grandchildren are forced to consider that untreatable STDS are the new norm… and that circumcision will give their own children a 25% lower risk of being infected… if they are intelligent and love their children, they will have them circumcised when they are too young for it to be any trauma.

Guess you could teach your kids to wear a condom and not to shag around or would that be beyond your family values?

This subject runs and runs but wtf do people have to get soooooo extreme about it for?
 
No one is going to be convinced one way or another by what they read on this site.
That said, my own view is that circumcision does not make sense in the modern world, unless for religious or strong cultural reasons. That is, it is (as far as we know) medically harmless.
But at the same time, it is not medically justified for its own sake. Widespread U.S. circumcision got started in the early 20th Century because of vaguely articulated reasoning around "cleanliness," coupled, to some degree, by evangelizing that circumcision somehow deterred masturbation (insane, I know).
I myself am circumcised, the decision having been made, probably without much thought, by my parents and the medical establishment at the time. I hold no animus toward them for this, and don't think my sex life has been harmed.
Luckily, though, my own circumcision somehow was remarkably 'loose,' meaning that although somebody did indeed take off my 'hood,' I nevertheless have no 'circumcision line' with attendant 'discoloration' -- nor have I ever needed lube to get the job done, as it were. The only downside to a 'loose' cut like mine is that when i am in major 'shrinkage' mode (thx, George Costanza), my dick has a bit of a puffy 'collar,' a la a cauliflower or something. Not terrific, but not a problem, either.
Anyway, I have a son myself, and due to my request (and his mother's ready agreement) he was not circumcised. This was just about a decade ago, and even then, the hospital staff felt it necessary to slap a bright red tag on his crib saying "no circ."
To top things off, during the time my son was in the hospital (a couple days), I went with him to a back area for a routine hearing test, which was forgettable. What was not forgettable was my discovery of a horrifying contraption sitting to the side. It even had a name, right on the side: "Circumstraint." As the name suggests, this was/is the seat into which they place male infants for their procedure. It basically looks like a tricked-out car seat, complete with tiny little velcro straps to restrain the boy's little arms and legs, and another to hold his little head in place.
The worst part? Well, this thing was mostly made of molded plastic of a very unfortunate white color -- meaning that down around the crotch area, the plastic was faintly stained red from all of the surgeries that had occurred there.
If I'd ever had doubts about my decision NOT to circumcise, seeing that horrific "circumstraint" put an end to them.
Count me today among the NO-CIRC crowd.
SSox
PS: Yes, yes, I've read about that data from Africa suggesting that circumcision can curb AIDS transmission in cultures where it is rampant in the hetero population. But excuse me for taking exception. My son was born in the U.S., to an educated, upper-middle-class family. I doubt seriously that his retention of a foreskin will put him at appreciable risk of AIDS. And if future science indeed does so demonstrate, well, then, HE, at age 16-18+, should be the one making the decision. Not me.
 
...
Luckily, though, my own circumcision somehow was remarkably 'loose,' meaning that although somebody did indeed take off my 'hood,' I nevertheless have no 'circumcision line' with attendant 'discoloration' -- nor have I ever needed lube to get the job done, as it were. The only downside to a 'loose' cut like mine is that when i am in major 'shrinkage' mode (thx, George Costanza), my dick has a bit of a puffy 'collar,' a la a cauliflower or something. Not terrific, but not a problem, either.
Anyway, I have a son myself, and due to my request (and his mother's ready agreement) he was not circumcised. This was just about a decade ago, and even then, the hospital staff felt it necessary to slap a bright red tag on his crib saying "no circ."
...

While I wish I were not circumcised, I, too, was fortunate in that I was circumcised fairly loose. I do not have a religious reason to be circumcised nor was their a medical reason. I chalk it up to stupid American societal beliefs during the time when I was born that started decades earlier based on flawed medical beliefs. While circumcision rates have fallen in the U.S. over the last 10-20years (and more so in some states than others), the rate still remains quite high, even if one were to adjust for religious reasons and cases of medical necessity.

When my son was born, we did not have him circumcised and I had to convince his mom that it was the right choice. Even though my son was born in California where routine infant circumcision rates have fallen to only about 1/3 of newborn males, the hospital staff asked us whether we were really sure about our decision after the first time when asked, that we said we did not want him circumcised. It was a bit insulting that the hospital medical staff would question our decision against circumcision. :mad: Perhaps it was driven by money because it was less revenue to them....
 
@ Phil Ayesho

That's total nonsense.

Circumcision is medically needless in a developed country, as every Western medical association apart from the American (who earn the most money with their currently high rates) confirms. 37 medical doctors from 19 different countries tore the AAP argumentation apart right after the AAP had questionably changed their policy concerning said penis operation.
Most comparable, industrialized and developed nations have lower incidences of STDs than the USA and the vast majority of men in those developed countries is not circumcised.

Comparing circumcision with vaccination is brashly impertinent. It's not even comparable. A natural penis doesn't kill anyone (if anything, it's idiotic or hazardous behaviour that does), a virus like Hepatitis-B does indeed kill people quite regardless of their behaviour.

Non-religious circumcision in the English-speaking world originated as a believed instrument to prevent boys from masturbating and has been kept up because it became a part of American culture. Culture takes, regardless of its specific merit or harm, a lot of time to change.

Sorry, but it IS true.

And your statement is entirely unsupported, and in fact, destroyed by the fact that new strains of resistant bacteria are reported weekly. These new strains of resistant bacteria are CREATED by living in developed countries… countries that dole out antibiotics like they are skittles.

And your statement that it is 'impertinent' to compare vaccination to circumcision reveals that you are utterly ignorant of science, and medicine.

We are seeing epidemic outbreaks of diseases like whooping cough and measles in vulnerable children BECAUSE of the 'popularity' among well off, but undereducated parents of NOT vaccinating their children.

STDs are, in many cases, caused by infectious bacteria. The "developed" west has enjoyed a LONG period of extremely LOW transmission of these diseases from THREE combined public health strategies. Circumcision, Increased availability of condoms ( they used to be illegal ) and Antibiotic treatment to CURE the infected and thereby reduce propagation.

Of these, the largest effect has been from antibiotic treatment. However, in recent years newer strains of resistant syphillis and other STD's have emerged. These new strains, and ven more resistant strains WILL PROLIFERATE BECAUSE they will be nearly impossible to treat.

And, sorry, but living in a developed country is actually a significantly HIGHER risk for contracting highly resistant infections.

Ergo… we will be left with having to focus more on prevention, than on treatment. and Circumcision is PROVEN to be effective at significantly reducing transmission.

Your position is analogous to saying, "hey… I HAVE a seat belt in my car… I don't NEED an Airbag, TOO" even tho airbags more than double your chance of walking away uninjured from an accident.

Sorry… but to rule out an effective means of increasing your safety over a useless flap of vestigial skin is the most vain form of stupidity.


This discourse reminds me of something that happened in San Diego about 20 years back… they used to routinely spray malathion from helicopters to keeps down fruit flies and mosquitoes.

But the folks who imagine that nature is all soft and fuzzy goodness… and that their precious little darling children should not be exposed to even the SLIGHTEST trace of insecticides complained, and organized, and staged protests and ballot measures…. and San Diego country banned the malathion spraying.

Then, two years later, ONE LITTLE WHITE GIRL, in an affluent suburb near a lagoon by the beach got Malaria.


And suddenly that self same crowd of nature loving rich parents were SCREAMING in every media "WHERE'S THE MALATHION SPRAYING HELICOPTERS!"

People like you live in a "developed" country and enjoy good health without the slightest comprehension WHY developed countries HAVE good health.

HINT- because of public health measures that significantly lower the risk for EVERYONE.

If more than 12% of children are NOT vaccinated… the risk of an epidemic of that disease goes up by 6 times. When Apple computers were only 5% of computers connected to the internet… you never saw viruses that affected macs… they could not virally propagate.

As soon as Apple computers were more than 12% of connected machines… Mac viruses started to show up.

Even a SMALL increase in transmission rate multiplies the potential vectors for transmission by several orders of magnitude.

You really need to bone up on epidemiology.
Ignorance is a poor foundation for any position regarding health and well being of whole populations.
 
LOL!

Wow! You sure SOUND smart!

But...you just invalidated everything you said with one ignorant comment: "useless flap of vestigial skin".

Look. I understand epidemiology.. My children are vaccinated. But I didn't mutilate their genitals...because foreskin has nothing to do with the transmission of disease, nor is it a useless flap of vestigial skin. That always makes me laugh, especially when it comes from someone who is otherwise seemingly intelligent.

Tell us why the rest of the men in the developed world don't have an epidemic of STDs. Explain that, and realize that the foreskin is a fully-functioning sexual body part, and THEN, and only then, I MIGHT take you seriously.
 
LOL!

Wow! You sure SOUND smart!

But...you just invalidated everything you said with one ignorant comment: "useless flap of vestigial skin".

You really don't know anything, do you?

Removing the foreskin is hardly mutilation. There is ZERO effect on sexual function and reproductive success from circumcision.

Look, I GET that you think foreskins are hot.
That doesn't mean that they DO anything functional, biologically.

Many animals with a penis SHEATHE their penis… WHY? Because their penis would otherwise be exposed to such dangers as, say, tall, sharp bladed sawgrass. Or dragging across the ground. So evolution actually resulted in bodies that retract ALL or nearly all of the penis INSIDE their bodies.


But In most Primates, the penis is NOT sheathed… it hangs out there, because primate lifestyles to not expose the penis shaft to significant danger. Having an exposed willy has NO negative effect on primate sexual function or success, so we DON'T retract our dicks into our bodies.

The "sheath" in primate evolution has gotten smaller, and smaller… WHY? Well, because it isn't necessary. Just as the human Appendix has withered away to a tiny fraction of its size in other animals… because it offers no significant survival or reproductive advantage to human beings.

If a trait offers an advantage, no matter HOW slight, that trait is preserved.
If a trait results in a DISadvantage, no matter how small, that trait is gradually eliminated from the population over time.

BUT- when a trait offers NO advantage… and NO particular disadvantage… then there is NO pressure on the trait either way… no pressure to RETAIN functionality… no pressure to eliminate a problem… and so the genes that create that trait DRIFT… they mutate, randomly.

Some of those mutations will be meaningless… but, eventually, some of those mutations will cause Problems.

Like, say, having wisdom teeth… sprouting in a jaw that has evolved to be Too small for that many teeth.
Or human susceptibility to appendicitis.

The very structure of the human foreskin, compared morphologically to other animals, Proves that the foreskin is a vestigial sheath… and that there HAS been pressure on our evolution to eliminate the sheath as being disadvantageous…

Because of drift… a significant percentage of uncircumcised men WILL have complications cause by too much frenulum tissue, or too tight a foreskin, ( preventing the exposure of the glans ) This proves that the trait is vestigial.

and, by the way…. a tour of mammalian, avian and reptilian biology will demonstrate that in every OTHER species… the sheath is so formed as to allow FULL exposure of the Glans of the penis. In Human beings, the foreskin is OFten formed as to Not allow full exposure of the glans to stimulation.
This proves that the trait is NOT Functional as a fully retractile cover for the glans.


And, listen… SOME people are born with a vestigial TAIL.
If your child was born with a tail, you would't think twice about having it lopped off in infancy, for no other reason than to save him the ridicule and embarrassment of his childhood friends someday finding out.


The fact is that, at this point in time, human beings protect their genitals with clothing. And that the conditions inside the foreskin are especially perfect for harboring bacteria, viruses, and even fungal infections. The SKIN of the foreskin interior has been proven to be particularly prone to infection.
And men who are uncut are far more likely to get penile cancer.

There is ZERO data to support the claim that uncut cocks are more sensitive, or offer more pleasure.
Men who have been circumcised AS adults after being sexually active WITH a foreskin are almost exactly evenly divided as to whether they like sex better with, or without.


But here's the final issue. NO ONE is saying that you should be FORCED to circumcise YOUR child. But those who oppose circumcision ARE trying to FORCE other people to NOT circumcise their children.

They are busybodies who want to shove their way of thinking down other people's throats by force of law. No better than the crowd that would outlaw gay marriage, or throw women in prison for getting an abortion.

I respect your right to elect to leave your kids uncut.

How about the same courtesy for those of us who see our parental responsibility differently than you do?

I have shown that ALL of the 'arguments' of the Anti-circ crowd are utter horseshit. Shown that science proves circumcision has quantifiably positive benefits. And proven that the foreskin is a vestigial and non-functional remnant of a penis sheath… that in its current expression causes complications that inhibit sexual function MORE OFTEN than routine circumcision.

The truth is you don't want to CUT foreskins off because you LIKE the way they look or feel… and/or because you BELIEVE they serve a purpose that you can't actually demonstrate… or believe that everything "natural" is in some way "better".


But those are just belief systems, unsupported by actual research or theory.

And, hey, you can believe what you like. You can make your own choices based upon those beliefs.

But my preference is not only what I believe…. its also supported by real data.

Surely THAT should be enough to allow me the freedom to make the informed parental choice that is supported by that data.

I have never HAD an STD. Never known anyone who had one. That is partly because everyone I grew up with in 1950s to 1960s USA was circumcised.


And trust me… when YOUR son's wife is pregnant with your first grandson…and they are reading in the paper about how 10% or all teens in the future will get life threatening sexual infections by the the time their child is a teen… thanks to increasing bacterial resistance to antibiotics… they will most definitely WANT the option to take whatever measures will offer their child the greatest resistance to contracting those infections.
 
I have never HAD an STD. Never known anyone who had one. That is partly because everyone I grew up with in 1950s to 1960s USA was circumcised.

As cheeky as that comes across, there is some merit to the claim. Numerous studies have demonstrated lowered probability of female-to-male HIV transmission where the man is circumcised.

From a German-Ugandan study:
Male circumcision (MC), to some religious and ethnic groups a centuries-old practice, has been shown to reduce the risk of female to male transmission of HIV by at least 50%. The protective effect of MC is expected to have its greatest impact in countries where HIV prevalence is high and MC is little practised, most of them being countries of Sub-Saharan Africa.

BMC Public Health | Full text | Male circumcision for HIV prevention - a cross-sectional study on awareness among young people and adults in rural Uganda

Hooda thunk it?
 
I confess that at the begining of watching porn, me (as an uncut) was the ugly one, because american, white skinned cocks looked so atractiv to girls that mine would seem ugly...

Years latter i found why, lolollolo, now i like mine as much as never :biggrin1:

Cheers
 
@ Phil Ayesho
Again, you're just being ridiculous. The origin of circumcision is quite obvious, I'm not sure why you're questioning that suddenly. Mr. Kellogs played a part in it.

I'm very aware of science. Circumcision and vaccination have nothing in common, that's just common sense and that's the reason why vaccination is universally accepted all over world while non-religious circumcision is not and an exclusively American thing.

Not even the Americans, represented by the AAP, compare circumcision in any way to vaccination. They just (newly) hold the opinion that the advantages of circumcision outweigh the disadvantages. The Europeans - including the UK - Canadians, Australians and all the others take the opposite position.
The only person who made such a statement was Brian Morris, the Australien biologist who proved his medical incompetence (alternatively, it was part of his ever-strategy to create fear and manipulate reality) when he wasn't even able to tell a parent that his son's foreskin was not supposed to be retractable at an early age. He seems you brother-in-thought, though.

There isn't much real scientific information on circumcision, anyway, because many studies with that subject don't meet scientific standards. So circumcision is neither "proven" (because it's not scientific) to reduce anything nor is the probable reduction "significant" (a theory that tries to explain a potential reduction is, btw, directly related to a potential, long-term loss in sexual sensation). Going by you standards, it's also proven that circumcision increases male-to-female HIV infections. I'm wondering why you're so quiet about that one ....

...but I already know: because it doesn't fit your agenda.

The "pinnacle" of your quite angry, biased and rather humorous post is your anecdotic information that you've never known anyone who had an STD. Well, let me tell you something: I live in Europe (you know, the place that has lower STD rates than the USA despite the vast majority of men living with penises that are not surgically altered) and I've never met anyone who had an STD as well. Now what?

Let me say one more thing:
The most "scientific" argument (rather than ethically or in terms of sexual satisfaction, where circumcision is in no way as "indifferent" as you try to make it look) against parent-decided circumcision is this: any potential advantage of circumcision can be balanced by an educated, informed, hygienic and reasonable personal behaviour. The most direct risks of circumcision (10% of circumsions lead directly to complications; 0,0005% of circumcisions lead to the person's death due to a systematic sepsis) are random. It can be everyone. You're powerless.

But I'm sure you'll now start over again with your bacteria, vaccination nonsense that has no place in medical reality...

...btw: My boyfriend is a medical doctor, so I'm "at source" for medical consensus.
 
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