Wimbledon ...

[Skull Mason]

So your logic is that , because my opinion differs and I place personal emphasis on different things , my knowledge is somehow inferior to yours? So be it , but that in itself is an opinion. And where did I say I knew nothing of Nadal's prior record against other people ? I simply didn't mention it because that wasn't teh subject.

Nadal has a wider victory margin over Federer on clay than Federer has over Nadal on any other surface.

And no , I wasn't trying to compare , as a whole , the sports I played to tennis. I was comparing the man on man battles within them. After , tennis is a one on one battle.

Bottom line. Nadal has Federer's number. And if he has the capacity for the flashes of brilliance he has shown so far , he obviously ahs a bigger upside than Federer.

And I never implied that he has already had a better career than Federer. I said I think he may. As in he has a chance to surpass him.

I would have quoted your last three posts because they are the truth as well. This thread quickly turned into a "GOAT" thread for some reason. Look at it any way you want, nadal has been busting federer's ass time and time again. Making up excuses like court surfaces is for pussies. Seriously, your the greatest of all time and you still getting your ass kicked like that, I don't care what surface it is, and then dethroned on your own territory? And it is not like he dominates nadal on any other surface either, what does he have a one match lead on hard court or something?

Whooodeefucking doo, Federer in his prime, and Nadal barely even touching his prime yet, and r-fed has a measly one match lead on hard court.

I agree with your sports analogy mista geechee, and quite frankly I am glad there is another athlete on the boards who knows how to recognize when one person is dominating another, regardless of the sport or situation, which is the same point I was trying to get across with my boxing one. If I am the champion, and I can kick everyone's ass over and over, but there is this one cat who keeps knocking me the fuck out, then by golly he has got my number and is better than me. He owns me. Right now nadal owns roger.

It always seems to me like sports analysts etc, who haven't ever played sports, or hasn't played them for a decade or two site various reasons for why one player is better than another, and proclaim to have all this wisdom and shit. They get all elaborate with it, but its really pretty simple. Mano y Mano.

Mano y Mano, that is how us street kids of "inferior" knowledge judge someone. If you can't beat me, I am better than you. Quote all the numbers you want, if you can't beat me, I am better than you. Beat all the other people you want, if you can't beat me, I am better than you. Other guys may kick my ass, but I can beat you so I am still better than you.

Why, in comparing nadal to federer right now, should anyone be talking about what happened in 2005?!?! Someone said above that the only credible team analogy that can apply here is one that goes back to 2005?!?! I don't know any team that is the same as they were 3 years ago. Get with the fucking now. We are talking about RIGHT NOW, and right now Nadal is moping the court with federer's head. Maybe federer is the greatest of all time. Maybe nadal will never eclipse his status as the "GOAT". But right now he is busting his ass, and he has done it over and over again. Can you not see that? Can you not admit that roger has gotten his ass busted by Nadal, without citing any excuses, or proclaiming that federer once busted his ass a long time ago? It is 2008, and Nadal is 4-0 against Federer.

Roger has had a bad year. Don't judge him by that.

Well damn rec what else am I supposed to judge him on? Next year? Its the NOW!!! We are living in the NOW!!! Last year was 7 months ago!!! Should I judge nadal on last year as well? He is much better than he was last year.

For some reason I feel like people are taking me and mista as two guys who think down upon roger federer. I know the man is great, if not the greatest to ever play the game. This is no disrespect to him, and I'd be willing to bet that he would admit this as well, but Nadal owns him.

And wait a minute, Flashy, did you really say that Nadal's shot placement was lacking? Do you only watch federer when they play? Nadal hits some of the most amazing and beautiful shots on the planet, and he does it from anywhere. And he puts cats down wit it. He hits a heavy ball wit it. He put federer back in his wimbledon cardigan for the last time wit it. C'mon you didn't really mean that did you...

 

[mista geechee]

Gotta love that shrewdness !!!!!!!

That's teh way it was when I grew up. You could beat everybody on the block , but if I bust your ass I got the bragging rights.

 

[transformer_99]

I would have quoted your last three posts because they are the truth as well. This thread quickly turned into a "GOAT" thread for some reason. Look at it any way you want, nadal has been busting federer's ass time and time again. Making up excuses like court surfaces is for pussies. Seriously, your the greatest of all time and you still getting your ass kicked like that, I don't care what surface it is, and then dethroned on your own territory? And it is not like he dominates nadal on any other surface either, what does he have a one match lead on hard court or something?

Whooodeefucking doo, Federer in his prime, and Nadal barely even touching his prime yet, and r-fed has a measly one match lead on hard court.

I agree with your sports analogy mista geechee, and quite frankly I am glad there is another athlete on the boards who knows how to recognize when one person is dominating another, regardless of the sport or situation, which is the same point I was trying to get across with my boxing one. If I am the champion, and I can kick everyone's ass over and over, but there is this one cat who keeps knocking me the fuck out, then by golly he has got my number and is better than me. He owns me. Right now nadal owns roger.

It always seems to me like sports analysts etc, who haven't ever played sports, or hasn't played them for a decade or two site various reasons for why one player is better than another, and proclaim to have all this wisdom and shit. They get all elaborate with it, but its really pretty simple. Mano y Mano.

Mano y Mano, that is how us street kids of "inferior" knowledge judge someone. If you can't beat me, I am better than you. Quote all the numbers you want, if you can't beat me, I am better than you. Beat all the other people you want, if you can't beat me, I am better than you. Other guys may kick my ass, but I can beat you so I am still better than you.

Why, in comparing nadal to federer right now, should anyone be talking about what happened in 2005?!?! Your saying the only credible team analogy that can apply here is one that goes back to 2005?!?! I don't know any team that is the same as they were 3 years ago. Get with the fucking now. We are talking about RIGHT NOW, and right now Nadal is moping the court with federer's head. Maybe federer is the greatest of all time. Maybe nadal will never eclipse his status as the "GOAT". But right now he is busting his ass, and he has done it over and over again. Can you not see that? Can you not admit that roger has gotten his ass busted by Nadal, without citing any excuses, or proclaiming that federer once busted his ass a long time ago? It is 2008, and Nadal is 4-0 against Federer.



Well damn rec what else am I supposed to judge him on? Next year? Its the NOW!!! We are living in the NOW!!! Last year was 7 months ago!!! Should I judge nadal on last year as well? He is much better than he was last year.

For some reason I feel like people are taking me and mista as two guys who think down upon roger federer. I know the man is great, if not the greatest to ever play the game. This is no disrespect to him, and I'd be willing to bet that he would admit this as well, but Nadal owns him.

And wait a minute, Flashy, did you really say that Nadal's shot placement was lacking? Do you only watch federer when they play? Nadal hits some of the most amazing and beautiful shots on the planet, and he does it from anywhere. And he puts cats down wit it. He hits a heavy ball wit it. He put federer back in his wimbledon cardigan for the last time wit it. C'mon you didn't really mean that did you...

And all of that makes perfect sense too. But Monday when Nadal flew and drove over to Germany to cancel out of this week's tournament, is he capable of beating Federer today ? That is the now, not yesterday/Sunday's Wimbledon match. What price to pay for the Wimbledon win. If the knee is stressed are we looking at an athlete that is much like 2/3 of horse racings triple crown winner this past year, injured and perhaps facing having to deal with that throughout the remainder of his career.

Another guy it reminds me of is the battle between TigerWoods and Rocco Mediate had a couple weekends back. Tiger Woods best ever, but his rebuilt knee is hurting too, so much he didn't play this past weekend, and won't speculate on a return either, but Woods won and beat Rocco. The weekend after, Rocco fared well at the next tournament, while Woods made congratulatory phone calls from elsehere/rehabing his knee. And that even reminds me of yet another golfer backin the 90's prior to Tiger racking up impressive win after another, David Duval, who appeared to be able to play with Tiger Woods weekend to weekend. Eventually a bad back got him and the longevity for greatness wasn't there. And just like Nadal to Federer, Duval had Tiger's number on more than one occasion and that made him better than the other guys on the PGA tour as well.

Back to Nadal and Federer, if the two take centre court today or tomorrow, with Nadal on at least a strained knee, I expect Federer to take the trophy. But I also do agree with the results of Sunday's match, Nadal was better than Federer as recently as Sunday evening.

 

[johntheironsmith]

Nadal and Federer are both awesome people, but I wanted Fed to win. Damnit all to the puss spewing bowels of hell....as Stewie would say. I don't like watching federer lose, cuz in my head his tennis is perfection. Awesome match tho. Federer had just 5 total points less than Nadal....so close, so awesome.

 

[johntheironsmith]

I also find it hilarious tho, that people are so gung-ho and aggressive in their trashing of federer if the support nadal, or vice versa, when both players get along so well with each other, and are so gracious and well mannered.

 

[Shelby]

Federer looks like Mr. Magoo.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Well damn rec what else am I supposed to judge him on? Next year? Its the NOW!!! We are living in the NOW!!! Last year was 7 months ago!!! Should I judge nadal on last year as well? He is much better than he was last year.

So if Federer beats Rafa in the US Open will be be the best again? I really don't agree with your head-to-head comparison; I think that you should judge the players by their ATP points.

For some reason I feel like people are taking me and mista as two guys who think down upon roger federer. I know the man is great, if not the greatest to ever play the game. This is no disrespect to him, and I'd be willing to bet that he would admit this as well, but Nadal owns him.

He was the greatest a few years ago. Every major that he has won sine then is just gravy. I don't think that Nadal 'owns' Federer any more than Federer owns Nadal. That's what makes this rivalry so great: they both have very different strengths.

And wait a minute, Flashy, did you really say that Nadal's shot placement was lacking? Do you only watch federer when they play? Nadal hits some of the most amazing and beautiful shots on the planet, and he does it from anywhere. And he puts cats down wit it. He hits a heavy ball wit it. He put federer back in his wimbledon cardigan for the last time wit it. C'mon you didn't really mean that did you...

Rafa's placement on his forehand isn't consistant because of the great deal of topspin that he uses. His big, loopy stroke is especially bad on grass. It never impressed me much, but it gets the job done. His lefty hook tends to throw his opponents off. His speed has won him many matches.

How about that lame cream blazer? What's up with that? He reminds me of Thurston Howell III.

 

[transformer_99]

I also find it hilarious tho, that people are so gung-ho and aggressive in their trashing of federer if the support nadal, or vice versa, when both players get along so well with each other, and are so gracious and well mannered.

That's pretty much the nature of both golf and tennis, they are gentlemen's country club sports. Golf really isn't so much about beating the other player(s), rather conquering a course. Granted they keep score, but the focus of the game is primarily finding a way to better par. Your opponent can put pressure on you if you allow the score to get in the way or perception of being in better position for the next shot. But in golf, your opponent can only mentally influence a golfer. Your opponent never touches the ball you play with, it's completely man vs nature. Beat the course better than your opponent and you win, it's as simple as that. Stay long and straight and in the fairways on the drives, with the short game be accurate and maybe even a little lucky putting.

Tennis though is back and forth. There can't be any animosity. Two players hitting a ball to where the other person isn't, trying to disrupt a comfort & rhythym and in both sports, the loser has only themselves to blame for a lack of execution of a game plan. Like any game there are ebb and flows.

Both sports sore losers wind up making @sses of themselves. The very nature of the game keeps the players separated. Tennis, there's a net, each player has their side and when they swap sides, they go to their respective sides to towel off and even get a quick drink. Golf, you have your caddy, you hit your ball and that's where you go to hit the next shot. No physical personal exchanges. In some golf tournaments, they don't even talk to one another in the same group, much like tennis too.

 

[Skull Mason]

So if Federer beats Rafa in the US Open will be be the best again? I really don't agree with your head-to-head comparison; I think that you should judge the players by their ATP points.

If he beats him in the US Open he will be 1-4 against him for the year, you tell me what record he would rather have...Federer needs to win a title to stake come claim to be the world's current best player.. Judging people based on their ATP points is like college football taking into account the prior season when doing their BCS rankings and polls throughout the next season. Just as some teams lose star players to the pros or injury, other teams get new star recruits and their level of play increases, which is why it is not a running point tally like in tennis. Judging who is better against another player in tennis using the ATP point system is like voting for a presidential candidate who is ahead in the polls.

With using ATP points as a guide, it still doesn't really take into account that Nadal has beaten Federer numerous times. A lot of variables come into play, such as them against the field etc etc. And apparently, it does not take into account the possible elevated level of a player as well as the possible decline of another player. Federer has not beat Nadal in a long time, and Nadal has won two of the major grand slams this year. He is 4-0 against Federer this year, how can you argue with that? How many titles does Federer have this year?

How far back are you going to go until you are able to recognize that right now, Nadal is playing the best tennis on the planet? That does not mean he is the best player ever, or the "GOAT" or whatever, but he is the best in the world right now, for the year 2008. If you are going back any further you are assuming people do not age, or lose their intensity, or their desire to win, or leave their prime; or take into account that some people improve their game and are entering their prime.

Look, we all know Federer is great, if not the greatest. But Nadal has continued to beat him time and time again. On every surface.

I don't get when you guys say "well it is on clay"...so? Is tennis not played on clay? If that surface illegal or something? Does it not count when Nadal wins on clay? It counts when Federer wins wimbledon over and over again, but Nadal the french 4 times in a row and counting on clay (and is 9-1 vs Federer on it) and it doesn't count? That is like a football team that is used to playing in a dome with no wind, on astroturf, and then not counting any of their loses when they play outside on grass in an open stadium. Or a team that always wins at home but can't win on the road. "oh well, we played that game outside on grass, so it doesn't really count." "oh well, we won all our home games but lost 9 games on the road and didn't make the playoffs, but we don't count them."

Federer does not dominate Nadal on any surface, yet Nadal dominates him on one of the three main surfaces used in the sport of tennis, and their head to head match ups are close on the other surfaces.

And come on, Nadal's forehand is one of the most lethal shots in tennis, if not the most lethal, any way you look at it. ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. The fact that he wins these matches without a great serve is even more telling at how good he is. He does not get free points. He earns them. He is the best athlete in the sport. Clay is the hardest surface to keep your balance on and he floats all over it, same with grass.

Maybe because I don't really take favorites in tennis because I don't care enough about it, but I just call it as I see it. I see Nadal having Federer's number, and now his cardigan, and a 4-0 record this year vs him. It looks to me like Nadal is playing the best tennis on the planet right now for the year.

In head to head match ups, Nadal is better than Federer. Can anyone argue against any of this without bringing up any year besides 2008, the now? How many titles has Federer won this year?

And by the way, who said that these guys don't have any animosity between each other? Because they don't fight on the court or yell at each other and talk shit in interviews or something? You don't think federer may really dislike nadal because he keeps losing to him, or that Nadal may want federer's head? It may be a gentleman's game, but if you want to be the best in any sport you have to be out for blood.