Accents

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This is a very interesting thread. Just some observations if you don't mind, after reading the posts.
Australia was setttled as a penal colony after the American Revolution, England lost America as a colony and had to find somewhere else to send prisoners. Those prisoners for the most part, were incarcerated in the prison hulks moored in the Thames, and came from the streets of London-The australian accent you hear today is descended from that. It has been modified and smoothed out-usually by education and travel-but by and large there are two strains-Educated Australian and Broad Australian-samples: Cate Blanchett-Educated-Sam Worthington-Broad-
These strains of accent are modifed by geography-South Australian is sort of Estuary english-and uses the words Shan't (a contraction of "shall not") NSW (New South Wales-) you will hear "Shall" in places where most Aussies say "Will" -I shall go to the market-I will go to the market. The language is further modifed by local "patois"-for example-in Victoria-"Screen" door-Queensland-"Gauze" door- in Victoria, NSW, West Australia- "Suitcase"-in Queensland -"Port" a contraction of the word "Portmanteau"-a french word for "suitcase"-there are dozens of those examples.
A New Zealander and an Australian will pick each others accent immediately-to our ears they sound nothing like each other. NZ was not a prison dumping ground-but by and large was settled by Scots farmers who had suffered from the "Clearances" in the late 18th-Early 19th Century.In London a few years ago I was asked what nationality I was-I said "Australian" The veddy veddy English lady said- "I would'nt have thought so-I thought New Zealand" I sound nothing like a NewZealander-but she obviously had "Broad" Australian in her mind-my accent is rounder and softer than that-from Melbourne-it's influenced by my Irish heritage-and Catholic parochial school run by French nuns!!
In the early days of movies, most of the actors were stage trained- and very English-think of Kay Francis-the Barrymores, etc-later on a "Transatlantic" accent was used-think Ava Gardener, Errol Flynn(an Australian) Peter Finch had an educated Australian voice-he came from Radio in the 50's-where all actors had to sound English as Australians did not like to hear our own accent in film, radio etc. Queen Mary thought is was awful-Winston Churchill thought there was no worse sound on earth. Cecil Beaton thought a broad australian accent was so harsh it could crack a ceiling. The late Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother said "Canadian men are very handsome, the American Cowboy is wonderful, but if you see a tall Australian Man, his great long legs in tight moleskins, and with that slow, lazy drawl-he is a knockout!!" I have to agree.
We could go on forever about the way Australians shorten words-"Arvo"- Afternoon-Take a "Sickie"-call in sick-"Gladdy" Gladioli, "Pav" Pavlova. "Snags" Sausages-" In "Oz" -Australia-when we're pissed, we are not angry-we're drunk"!!
Sometimes we revert to that cockney slang-the origins of our language-"Molly the Monk"-drunk. "Two by four"-the floor. My "hammer and tack"-my back- The "Trouble and Strife"-the wife. My "skin and blister"-my sister; these will be shortened again to Me blister, me hammer, the twobe- My loaf of bread-head; can be truncated in speech to me loaf-as in "Use your loaf"-no wonder non australians are confused-but at the root of it all is Humour-and when you've lived isolated at the arse (ass) end of the world, until the communication revolution took hold, and brought us in to the global village-we lived in a remote, wonderful place-Like "Oz" itself, that Dorothy found-or perhaps "Brigadoon"
See ya later, mate.
 
mjfriel said:
Gisella said:
I subsequently moved back to Scotland and my speech was considered 'posh' as I pronounced all my words fully and correctly. The Scots tend to drop of the last letters and syllables off of words.
Likewise, when I moved to London for a while, I found that although they could understand me to a degree, I had to slow right down.
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That's so funny. American TV and movies stereotypically use British actors and/or British accents when they want to add sophistication or mystery.

Which I why I was dumbfounded when I was with some mates in London a few years back and they were slagging on a friend of theirs for putting on a "posh American accent" when they were last out with new friends.

To me, the words "posh American accent" were a complete oxymoron at the time, but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed that Standard American English -- and certainly that North Atlantic hybrid English -- sounds a lot more like upper crust British than do Cockney or Mancunian.

American English was heavily shaped by 1) Irish and 2) German. Both were huge waves of immigrants, and the single largest ethnic group in the US is German-Americans, even more than English, Irish or Scottish.

To my ears, Canadian and American speakers sound plainly different, with the exception of those who grew up right along the border. Still working on Kiwi and Aussie, even though my last partner is a native New Zealander (but living 22 years now in Melbourne and Sydney). He said the key give-away words are "school", "fish" and "no", the last one containing a massive dipthong of all 5 vowels in Australian.
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When I was in San Francisco a guy met liked to hear me say "nine" he heard it as sort of "noiyn" Peter Ustinov the late actor revealed his method of imitating an australian accent-Do not use the top lip-keep it still-and speak from behind the teeth-not from the throat. I agree with you, I don't know what a "posh" american accent woud sound like? Bostonian perhaps? Class to me in America is sort of what class in Australia means...It's more to do with money than where you are on the social ladder. That's why you can have a Lord Uppington Smthe in London as broke as a bastard, but he'd be lording it over everyone, and your average man in the street would be tugging his forelock because Lord Whatever's family goes back to 1066- Our attitude would be "Fuck em"... In Melbourne or Chicago, we'd be distinctly unimpressed-but if he was an ordinary Joe living in a penthouse apartment in Manhattan...money pouring out of every orrifice, but down to earth and a good guy, we'd be impressed. I was in the Hangar Bar in New York and a guy thought I was from New Jersey. I loved to hear a Brooklyn accent ask for a cup of coffee-to me it sounded like "Cawfeee" Canadians to my ear don't say "about" they say "aboot" Katharine Hepburn's voice annoyed me, too harsh, and those vowels that sort of strangled on the way out-a bit like JFK-and Robert Kennedy, as imitated by Chief Wiggums.
A nurse in a hospital in London once said to an Australian-"Did you come her to die?"
He said "No I came here yesterdie" That's how it sounds!!! Funny innit?
 
Amusingly, in American English we do not distinguish between a "working class" accent compared to any other regional accent. One's accent is tied to one's geographic region, not because one is a member of the "working class" or the idle rich.

However, there are still pockets of what Brits and people from "other" English-speaking countries might refer to as being a "posh" native 'Mericuhn accent. Although you really have to search for it. There are pockets of upper-class (and upper-class wannabees) who live on Manhattan's upper east side who still warble out an accent that is the classic patrician English spoken during the turn of the 19/20th Century of Edith Wharton's world. If you're not familiar with Edith Wharton and her works, it's about time you picked up a copy of one of her lovely pieces of fiction and read it alouid.

This same American patrician accent is also shared by an ever diminishing circle of "old" famlies in Boston and Philadelphia. Although there is a bit of variation.

Regardless, to imitate this particular American accent all one really needs to do is speak with one's teeth clenched. And it is important to only pronounce been with the typical long e sound as most Brits do, instead of the standard 'Mericuhn short i (bin). An approximation of this dying accent is easily heard in old MGM and Warner Bros movies starring Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and especially Mary Astor. Probably the last American Actress to naturally speak yea olde patrician 'Mericuhn lingo was Grace Kelly who was raised in a family environment where that accent was normal. Davis and Crawford had to be coached to learn the stilted modulations of what was considered, during its time, the posh 'Mericuhn accent. Katherine Hepburn almost pulled it off, but her native thick New England accent tended to overpower her ability to sound as if she grew up on the 25th floor of a gracious Park Avenue apartment over looking Central Park, with the possible exception of her performance in The Philadelphia Story.

But there are still a few original speakers whose accents sound like relics of Wharton's golden era of New York Society. And when I hear someone speaking it, I'm always amazed. Not impressed. Just amazed.
 
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I'm familiar with Edith Wharton's world. Age of Innocence-Henry Irvine too-Portait of a Lady etc. I like to read Emily Dickinson aloud-but I wonder what she actually sounded like, hopefully not like the dreaded Hepburn in "Little Women". Speaking of the "The Women" -the early George Cukor one not the latest Meg Ryan travesty-that had a fair range of accents from a Yankee drawl to clipped faux British, to Noo Yoik shopgirl.
Australian accents also draw from geographical origins, and also from the sort of schooling and education one had-Up until about the 60's-wealthy parents paid to have their sons and daughters educated by teachers well versed in rounding out elocution, smoothing out vowels etc. My mother spent all her senior high school years being taught by Brigidine Nuns who thought that learning "The rain In Spain falls mainly in the plain" and "By the gloomy appearance of the atmosphere I prognosticate a copious downfall" much more important than learing stuff that would earn one a living. When she was married, then widowed early with three children under 9 years old-having beautiful vowels didn't exactly put a chicken in the pot.
Now, no one cares-No matter where you come from every second word is interspersed with "Um" and "Like" and "Derrr" and ultimately, "Whatever"
 
You might think that local accents stay the same, but they don't. They shift from generation to generation. Yes, they will be very similar, but there are differences. Listen to recordings of people from your area from a hundred years ago and you'll hear the difference.

Accents on film and TV often make me laugh, especially the "Scottish" ones, and very few people get it right. Most of them end up sounding like Robin Williams in Mrs Doubtfire or someone out of Brigadoon. A few years ago, I got chatting to a guy in a bar in London who had an odd accent. To be honest, as soon as he opened his mouth, I thought he sounded like someone from the set of an STV drama. I didn't say anything, but he later came out as being an English actor who had worked on Taggart and they'd sent him to a voice coach!

Personally, although I'm Scottish, I, and many other islanders, because we have lilting accents are mistaken for Welsh or Irish people, even by mainland Scots. Actually, I was once asked by a guy from Cardiff which part of North Wales I was from!
 
Standard American (media American English) is only acceptable to most other English speakers because of its monopoly of the entertainment world. All elites iron out their accents because they mainly associate with each other. Until the advent of major public schools in the UK even the nobility would speak with a local accent, though not the local dialect. Those who advanced themselves to the royal court in London or the big merchant houses. Apparently 18th century court English was somewhat louche, but then the royals all had heavily inflected German accents.

I think variety in English, in any language is good. The only reservation is the English spoken by the children of Russian and Chinese oligarchs, it is embarrassingly hideous. Sound like a cyborg speaking: you'd think with all that ill gained moolah they could afford good English teachers

What I find intriguing about American English spoken by the governing class there is that it is standard English but delivered in a very abrupt German speech pattern. Curious. As a French colleague once said, they deliver their language with all the charm of a Chinese border guard!
 
Scouse accents (Liverpool) are the best. We're well known for sounding posh and intellectual.
 
gymfresh said:
To my ears, Canadian and American speakers sound plainly different, with the exception of those who grew up right along the border.
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I would have to disagree.
I think most Canadian accents could be taken for one of the many American accents.
Newfoundland and I suppose the Maritimes would be an exception.
But except for a few key words, Canadian accents sit within the vast range of American spoken English.
When I go to the States, I am never asked if I'm a Canadian.
I am often asked, "What state do you come from?"

When you hear Canadian actors ... Brendan Fraser, Dan Akroyd, Donald Sutherland, Jim Carrey, Keanu Reeves, Lorne Greene, Matthew Perry, Mike Myers, Ryan Gosling, Ryan Reynolds, William Shatner, etc. ... do you think, "hey, a Canadian"?
I'll bet you don't.
 
malleetoo said:
Queen Mary thought is was awful-Winston Churchill thought there was no worse sound on earth. Cecil Beaton thought a broad australian accent was so harsh it could crack a ceiling.
Click to expand...

They must be describing this sort of accent:

Julia Gillard Speech Accepting the Office of Prime Minister of Australia (YouTube)

malleetoo said:
Sometimes we revert to that cockney slang-the origins of our language-"Molly the Monk"-drunk. "Two by four"-the floor. My "hammer and tack"-my back- The "Trouble and Strife"-the wife. My "skin and blister"-my sister; these will be shortened again to Me blister, me hammer, the twobe- My loaf of bread-head; can be truncated in speech to me loaf-as in "Use your loaf"-no wonder non australians are confused-but at the root of it all is Humour-and when you've lived isolated at the arse (ass) end of the world, until the communication revolution took hold, and brought us in to the global village-we lived in a remote, wonderful place-Like "Oz" itself, that Dorothy found-or perhaps "Brigadoon"
See ya later, mate.
Click to expand...
Paul Theroux, in The Great Railway Bazaar, reports some Australians using the phrases of Cockney rhyming slang but with non-Cockney meanings: they used "butcher's hook," which in Cockney means "look" (e.g., "Have a butcher's over here"), to mean "crook," which is Australian slang for "sick."
 
You could argue that the Australian accent has no real variation of accent, but rather its broadness that varies. Also, the vernacular varies quite wildly from state to state. I've got a quite soft accent that did wonders for me in Texas btw.

However, I can always pick somebody from Queensland (here, not the Texan)

there's a bit of a joke re kiwis: stick them anywhere else in the world and they think you're Australian. But in Australia you stick out like a sore thumb.

And by the by, where do you guys stand on Russell crowe?
 
Midlifebear wrote:

However, there are still pockets of what Brits and people from "other" English-speaking countries might refer to as being a "posh" native 'Mericuhn accent. Although you really have to search for it. There are pockets of upper-class (and upper-class wannabees) who live on Manhattan's upper east side who still warble out an accent that is the classic patrician English spoken during the turn of the 19/20th Century of Edith Wharton's world. If you're not familiar with Edith Wharton and her works, it's about time you picked up a copy of one of her lovely pieces of fiction and read it alouid. This same American patrician accent is also shared by an ever diminishing circle of "old" famlies in Boston and Philadelphia. Although there is a bit of variation.

As a native of the Hampton Roads area, I noticed early on that old money up North sounds a lot like old money in Virginia. Some examples of the almost-Virginian drawl include Big and Little Edie in Grey Gardens, Jackie their neice, Tom Kean, William F. Buckley. Here's my theory about why they sound so familiar to a Virginian's ear: there was far less difference in regional accents back in 1750, and those New Yorkers etc. all of whose ancestors were here by the mid-18thc tend to sound similar to Virginians all of whose ancestors were here then. Whereas later immigrants contributed to divergent regional accents. BTW, with reference to another thread, examples of one's native dialect: Keely Smith was born in Norfolk a decade or so before I was, and just about every syllable out of her mouth (pronounced mothe) screams HOME to me. Here's an extreme example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfSOx3rK62I

Very southern, yes. But also very eastern.
 
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bath v ba'r'th, glass v gl'arse, grass v g'arse, bastard v ba'r'stard etc...

Im a chuck an 'r' in person, as thats the proper way. With a hint of Bristolian.
 
When travelling in the late 80,s
met quite a few Americans attempting to be Canadians
(incl sewing the canac flag on there packs)
due to there accents
wonder why?
perhaps not so much these days
Aussie accents/TWANG a lot more pronounced than Kiwis altho
THEY
love to take the piss out of us
re 'feesh & cheeps'
enz
 
Living near the border between Wales and England, there are a huge variety of accents in the area. Go half an hour north east and you're in Liverpool, go half an hour west and you're firmly in Welsh speaking areas. It's almost the case that each town has its own accent in the UK, certainly each area has, so really it's a wonder that the Enlgish speaking world can generally understand each others' accents - I'd struggle with some from parts of Britain.
 
Totally agree re the UK .. str8nude
Travelling there relativley extensivley
Many Towns and even Villages, i was told several times i spoke better clearer English than some of the English haha Duh
Kiwi Maori/Chinese 1/2 educated as well?
(many lpsg will decry my written words tho )ha
enz
--as for when in a North Scots Village Post Office, i was SURE i had landed on the Moon . or somewhere..
 
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