Bulking Phase

D_Pokin Joe Frazier

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Exercise Physiology. I've read a bit of research that would say your recommendation of 400g of protein is too high. You may have done it, but you didn't do it right.

It still doesn't change that you're recommendation of 4-5k calories still only has 3000 calories of macro nutrients. You recommended to him 400g protein, 200g carbs, and 60g fat and if you do the math it's around 3000 calories, but you told him 4000-5000. So far you're experience doesn't make sense, but my science has proven data to suggest you're recommendations are too high.

Then we shall agree to disagree that's the great thing about this site is we get to share info because the more you know;-)
 

Pith

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I can do this all day. The bottom line is I've met people who have 20+ years of experience doing things the wrong way. I however learn how to do things with an understanding of the human body and the limits it has. You threw random general generic answers at him without asking any questions about his activity level. All you did was write 400g protein, 200g carbs, and 50-60g of fat. I can write that on a paper and hand it out to 100 people and it's gonna be wrong for 99 of them.

You're math doesn't make sense, which you continue to fail to address.

If this person started to ingest 400 grams of protein you're going to place a large load on his kidneys due to the excess protein in his diet. More than half of that protein is going to broken down and turned into glucose/fat and not be used to build muscle. The components of these proteins will need to be excreted and can put excess burden on someones kidneys. You're recommendation isn't backed by science and isn't safe.
 

Pith

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Then we shall agree to disagree that's the great thing about this site is we get to share info because the more you know;-)

Sadly I'm an academic, which means I won't agree to disagree. I'm standing by the fact that you recommendations aren't backed by science and aren't safe.
 

alx

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Is it not possible to gain muscle simply by having a normal healthy 2000cal diet, then have say three protein shakes just to boost your protein or are the extra calories really that important?
 

D_Pokin Joe Frazier

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Is it not possible to gain muscle simply by having a normal healthy 2000cal diet, then have say three protein shakes just to boost your protein or are the extra calories really that important?

I would say yes an no if you want a little muscle gain then yes but if you want to get the look of a super hero body then no.
An if you want the body of mr.Olyimpia than hell no!!! An I am not saying that it's healthy for you but we do all kinds of things in life that are not you just have to weigh the pros & cons.
 

Pith

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My recommendations are that you should get 140-150 grams of protein. If you can get that in your diet then you should be fine. When I try to build muscle in my legs I just up my protein intake by protein shakes or meat and eat so I don't feel hungry. You don't want to low ball your overall calories because that will hinder your gains.

Does that make sense?
 

monel

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I would say yes an no if you want a little muscle gain then yes but if you want to get the look of a super hero body then no.
An if you want the body of mr.Olyimpia than hell no!!! An I am not saying that it's healthy for you but we do all kinds of things in life that are not you just have to weigh the pros & cons.

Funny you should put it in these terms. I saw an interview with the guy who will be playing Superman in the new movie and he said he is on a 5,000 calorie per day diet and 2 hour workout routine to bulk up for the part. That is alot of extra calories.
 

D_Pokin Joe Frazier

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Funny you should put it in these terms. I saw an interview with the guy who will be playing Superman in the new movie and he said he is on a 5,000 calorie per day diet and 2 hour workout routine to bulk up for the part. That is alot of extra calories.

Yep it is funny but hey if you want workout advise from a skinny guy on how to bulk up or from the BIG boys who are doing it the choice is yours.
 

Pith

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You can get with THIS or you can get with that

Wow, really?

They can side with you or me. With you they get an old, mildly educated guy who owned a gym. The moment you said that I could read something all over the internet you got classified as poorly educated. Your math doesn't add up. Now you've just decided to say that because I don't look like I lift weights for a living I can't know what I'm talking about?

You're the plague of the health profession spreading nonsense to the masses leading to disinformation. I can find thousands of bigger guys, who owned gyms, who know as little as you, but I can equally find thousands of skinny guys like me with graduate degrees in exercise physiology or some similar major who could talk you under a table about facts.

I would say a man with a physical education degree, who owned a gym can provide as much information about building muscle as my mom.

Your logic is flawed, your math is flawed, and so is your knowledge on the human body and how to feed it for performance.
 

Pith

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Yep it is funny but hey if you want workout advise from a skinny guy on how to bulk up or from the BIG boys who are doing it the choice is yours.

What's funny is that's a unrelated situation. I don't know what your brain thinks to connect two unrelated situations.

You can learn to bulk up from a big moron or a skinny guy with graduate degrees.
 

monel

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WOW! When I first looked at this thread, not having read it through, I was not aware of the bubbling hostility it had become. I think the differences in opinions result from different practicalities. For example, I've been working out to some degree or another for most of my life. I am certainly no expert but know enough and in particular what it is that I want and how to achieve /maintain it. I do not look like Lou Ferrigno and have no interest in so doing. As a professional in my mid 40's I don't need to be that big. It wouldn't fit with my life. In addition as we get older it becomes harder to maintain. Though muscle does not turn to fat as some say, aging bodies do lose elasticity and as that happens, the bigger the muscle the lower they will hang. Therefore, for me it is smarter to keep a slim/muscular physique than that of a "super hero." In the end what body someone desires comes down to individual preference and what fits one's lifestyle.
 

D_Jerk_Douglas

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More of the problem here was the 200 grams of carbs part. That will NEVER bulk you up and the excess protein (nobody needs 400 unless they are 300+ lbs) Even that is excessive. For me it is always 275 protein, 500 carb, fat somewhere around 80-100 grams of fat. Carbs are so necessary, especially for power.
 

Pith

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Bottom line is you decide how much protein you need, 150grams ish, fill some fat in there 50-70g and the rest is carbs to give you energy to get through the day. Fat can go up / down based on how many calories you need in a day, but should be 15-25% of your daily caloric intake.
 

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I would dare say that the type of protein is just as important, if not more than the amount. For me, whey protein tends to dehydrate me and casein seems to bloat me. Soy is not bad, but there's the whole argument against it that I'm hesitant to take in high amounts of it. There's a few beef protein products that seem to work really well with my metabolism without the bloat or dehydrating effect. I always take BCAA's or liver pills throughout the day and they do wonders for my strength and energy. Probably more so than protein powder alone.
 

Pith

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I would dare say that the type of protein is just as important, if not more than the amount. For me, whey protein tends to dehydrate me and casein seems to bloat me. Soy is not bad, but there's the whole argument against it that I'm hesitant to take in high amounts of it. There's a few beef protein products that seem to work really well with my metabolism without the bloat or dehydrating effect. I always take BCAA's or liver pills throughout the day and they do wonders for my strength and energy. Probably more so than protein powder alone.

You couldn't be more right. BCAA are unique in that they are able to trigger and activate the anabolic pathways in the muscle and stimulate it for growth. Whey and casein used together I think are necessary as well because the protein is a good source and will give immediate and long-term amino acid supplies to your muscle.
 

D_Pokin Joe Frazier

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I would dare say that the type of protein is just as important, if not more than the amount. For me, whey protein tends to dehydrate me and casein seems to bloat me. Soy is not bad, but there's the whole argument against it that I'm hesitant to take in high amounts of it. There's a few beef protein products that seem to work really well with my metabolism without the bloat or dehydrating effect. I always take BCAA's or liver pills throughout the day and they do wonders for my strength and energy. Probably more so than protein powder alone.

I agree with you on the types of protein I tend to try an get my protein from real food but that is not always possible I like whey protein an you are right on about the amino's I like fitness labs amino 1200 gel caps. As for soy protein I try an keep away from it their have been study's that say it low testosterone in men.