Caster Semenya

[StrictlyAvg]

A somewhat humiliatingly public inquiry don't you think?

 

[voyeuristic]

This whole controversy blows my mind. Shame on those who have called her well-earned championship into question because our culture has such limited ideas about what constitutes a woman.

 

[Skull Mason]

Look at her last name closely...

 

[Rubenesque]

I guess she has come out of nowhere and does like a bloke... they need to investigate to be sure there is no foul play, but it should've been done on the quiet, no need to humiliate an 18yr old.

 

[Flashy]

This whole controversy blows my mind. Shame on those who have called her well-earned championship into question because our culture has such limited ideas about what constitutes a woman.

there is no shame on anyone for asking a legitimate question...it has been found to have happened a couple of times before when "women" won races...turned out to be *MEN* who were cheating deserving *WOMEN* athletes out of their success and glory by competing unfairly as a man in a woman's event.

this has nothing to do with "limited ideas"...this has to do with fairness to *ALL* women who are competing.

have you heard "her"?

have you noticed "she" has facial hair, not only in the moustach region which is normal for a woman, but on the cheeks and beard regions?

YouTube - Caster Semenya after the Semis at Worlds


and just so you can see...

this is Dora Ratjen, she was Austrian and in 1938 she broke the women's high jump record...

the problem was, she really was Hermann Ratjen

Dora Ratjen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and of course there was Polish "Woman" Ewa Klobukowska

 

[LeeEJ]

Right, and the inquiry and testing could have been done before the competition. They're saying that people were questioning her "gender validity" (not sure what else I should call it) long ago.

I've got a few thoughts on it so far --

Because her results improved so quickly and so much, I personally think she's doping. She could still be a she, but could also be amped up on drugs to make her faster and stronger.

In athletics, where is the place for legitimate hermaphrodites? This is where body mechanics rule the day, not personality or sexual preference. A woman with the physique of a man is akin to a race car with a V8 instead of the required 4-cylinder motor. For someone who can't be categorized with either the men or women, how can they participate? They'll be too slow for the men, but too fast for the women.

The last venue of sports being played fairly is, IMO, at the playground. Kids are quick to call each other out for cheating. The ones who persist get shunned pretty quickly -- well, at least that was true when I was a kid. But at higher levels, everywhere from intercollegiate to world competition, the athletes look like they're trying to sneak past the rules. Maybe Caster is a woman, maybe she's a man -- but this story has dug up old stories of past gender transgressions, which themselves will always be embarrassing episodes in the world of sport. It amazes me how low people will stoop just to get a hunk of metal.

This has been an ugly, embarrassing situation all around.

 

[LeeEJ]

have you heard "her"?

have you noticed "she" has facial hair, not only in the moustach region which is normal for a woman, but on the cheeks and beard regions?

YouTube - Caster Semenya after the Semis at Worlds

Holy cow, I hadn't seen that one yet (it's actually waiting in another browser tab from earlier today, too).

I don't know if I could be convinced that she's not actually a man. Sheesh...

And the claim of spending three months "resting" at home, towards the end of the clip -- one of the comments on that Youtube page says, "Sitting at home for 3-4 months? Why? Recovering from gender reconstruction surgery perhaps?" Remember my comment about what people will do to get that little hunk of metal..

But, to add a "what if" -- what if she's a hermaphrodite? Is there anywhere for her to compete?

 

[Flashy]

Holy cow, I hadn't seen that one yet (it's actually waiting in another browser tab from earlier today, too).

I don't know if I could be convinced that she's not actually a man. Sheesh...

And the claim of spending three months "resting" at home, towards the end of the clip -- one of the comments on that Youtube page says, "Sitting at home for 3-4 months? Why? Recovering from gender reconstruction surgery perhaps?" Remember my comment about what people will do to get that little hunk of metal..

But, to add a "what if" -- what if she's a hermaphrodite? Is there anywhere for her to compete?

well it is not really just thee hunk of metal...it is loads of money as well. it is worth a fortune in endorsements...and to a poor person from a large family in an undeerdeveloped country, the money to survive and care for one's family may be too good to pass off.

if a baseball player will take steroids to insure that they can hit 50 home runs, as opposed to 25 home runs, thus getting them a 20 million a year salary in place of a 10 million salary, it is not far fetched at all to extrapolate that all the way down the line to the amateur ranks where people are training to get to the big money.

track and field is rife with performance enhancing drugs in both the men's and women's events.

cycling has a legendary history of doping.

and many many other sports as well.

as for there not being a place for hermaphrodites, well, i hate to say it, but that really is not too high on people's agendas...what is the ratio of hermaphroditic athletes to normal gender athletes?

it is not fair to place a hermaphrodite with the women because he/she would have a clear advantage...but in the men's competition, he/she would have a clear disadvantage.

 

[LeeEJ]

Picking from the Wikipedia page on gender verification:
Gender verification in sports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The [Journal of the American Medical Association] article also states:
"Gender verification has long been criticized by geneticists, endocrinologists, and others in the medical community. One major problem was unfairly excluding women who had a birth defect involving gonads and external genitalia (i.e., male pseudohermaphroditism). ...
A second problem is that only women, not men, were stigmatized by gender verification testing. Systematic follow-up was rarely available for female athletes "failing" the test, which often was performed under very public circumstances. Follow-up was crucial because the problem was not male impostors, but rather confusion caused by misunderstanding of male pseudohermaphroditism." [3]

The reason for females being singled out, I think, is because they'll be the ones winning more. A woman entered in a men's race will almost certainly be too slow for anyone to care or notice. In car racing (as another example), nobody really cares if the slowest car is running an illegal setup.

 

[Flashy]

The reason for females being singled out, I think, is because they'll be the ones winning more. A woman entered in a men's race will almost certainly be too slow for anyone to care or notice. In car racing (as another example), nobody really cares if the slowest car is running an illegal setup.

yes, that was what i was just alluding to in the last paragraph of my last post.

it's double edged sword.

 

[Skull Mason]

In my mind there are only two possibilities;

1) She is a man

2) She is a woman, but has been taking anabolics/performance enhancers, which in women tend to lead to masculinizing symptoms ie deeper voice, hair growth, muscle development etc, all of which can be seen in the video posted above or on the track.

 

[Skull Mason]

I agree with Skull Mason

 

[LeeEJ]

2) She is a woman, but has been taking anabolics/performance enhancers, which in women tend to lead to masculinizing symptoms ie deeper voice, hair growth, muscle development etc, all of which can be seen in the video posted above or on the track.

In the cycling world, the one that everyone makes fun of was Tammy Thomas:
www.cyclingnews.com news and analysis
Tammy Thomas found guilty of perjury
Tammy Thomas indicted in steroids probe - VeloNews

Word is that when a drug tester visited her, she was caught shaving her face. :lmao:

 

[Hakunamatata]

I feel for that girl.

 

[sleepiboi]

All I can say is that's a handsome young lady.

 

[DiscoBoy]

Is it just me or is she completely flat-chested?

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

There's gonna be a story on this case on the news here in NYC in a few mins...

 

[Flashy]

article from the LA Times....

Runner Caster Semenya has heard the gender comments all her life -- latimes.com

frankly, the whole racism angle that South Africans are whining about rings a bit hollow, considering nobody is castigating Usain Bolt or other black men or women in track and field who are champions.

ever heard of Jackie Joyner Kersee and Florence Griffith Joyner? Evelyn Ashford?

 

[Skull Mason]

If she didn't beat everyone by 20 yards people wouldn't be asking the questions so it should be taken as a compliment that she is so dominant that the world at large thinks she has to be a man.

 

[LeeEJ]

frankly, the whole racism angle that South Africans are whining about rings a bit hollow, considering nobody is castigating Usain Bolt or other black men or women in track and field who are champions.

ever heard of Jackie Joyner Kersee and Florence Griffith Joyner? Evelyn Ashford?

Agreed. Sometimes people are way too quick to play the racism card. Heck, the previous gender-fakers were white, not black. Caster would be a pioneer as the first black fake woman. :biggrin1: