Circumcisions

[Rican84]

Completely untrue

Circumcision is practiced in many countries around the world for many different reasons

There are medical conditions too which it needs to be done. I forgot the name of it but the condition where the foreskin can't retract.

 

[Rican84]

Having spent the first 35 years of my life uncircumcised, I can attest being circumcised is much better.

Well, that comes down to your opinion. Having spent 41 years of my life uncircumcised, I prefer to be this way. But it all comes down to preference. If you like it that way, that's fine.

 

[freedomm]

FGM is practiced in many countries around the world for many different reasons as well. Still wrong to do to non-consenting infants.

No one here is debating FGM, and no country in the world offically approves of the practice. Not the same thing. Where it happens, it's underground and authorities are trying to eradicate it.

 

[Rican84]

No one here is debating FGM, and no country in the world offically approves of the practice. Not the same thing. Where it happens, it's underground and authorities are trying to eradicate it.

What's FGM?

 

[nick4zz]

There are medical conditions too which it needs to be done. I forgot the name of it but the condition where the foreskin can't retract.

That's correct. With competent medical treatment (i.e. not rushing to surgery), about 1% of males benefit from circumcision. A lot of people confuse this with having a healthy foreskin being cut off and that's very unhelpful.

What's FGM?

FGM this link will help. It covers such a wide range of things, some of which are less impactful that male circumcision, others much more. Debating how similar or unlike each other the many variations are to male circumcision are is one of those awful culture war things (i.e. my culture is better than yours).

 

[freedomm]

What's FGM?

FGM is female genital mutilation which no one anywhere supports. It's not even circumcision per se but clitoridectomy, the male equivalent would be lliterally chopping off the actual dick. They're not comprable.

 

[Rican84]

FGM is female genital mutilation which no one anywhere supports. It's not even circumcision per se but clitoridectomy, the male equivalent would be lliterally chopping off the actual dick. They're not comprable.

Definitely not the same.

 

[Fofu]

Definitely not the same.

Same sentiment. The reasons for doing it is 90% the same as the reasons for circumcisions in male infants.
Control over the female body and thereby the female sexuality and phimosis being the obvious variables.
The procedure and consequences are not the same I agree.

 

[B2TW2021]

Same sentiment. The reasons for doing it is 90% the same as the reasons for circumcisions in male infants.
Control over the female body and thereby the female sexuality and phimosis being the obvious variables.
The procedure and consequences are not the same I agree.

It's definitely not. No one is arguing that cutting the clitoris off boosts their health, it's done to reduce their enjoyment of sex. And conversely, who says I'm going to circumcise my son to reduce his sex drive?

I was circumcised later in life, circumcision improved my experience in sex.
Circumcision also reduces infection, and spreading infections to partners.

Also, there's many different ways to injure the foreskin during and it can get in the way of having a full sex life. My cousin is one such person. He's always cautious not to get carried away because he's injured himself a few times. Some have tight or overly sensitive frenulums, and some have torn their foreskins. Or suffered with chaffing and other problems.

I'd argue that it looks better, but that's just my subjective opinion. Others like the look of foreskin.

 

[Fofu]

It's definitely not. No one is arguing that cutting the clitoris off boosts their health, it's done to reduce their enjoyment of sex. And conversely, who says I'm going to circumcise my son to reduce his sex drive?

I was circumcised later in life, circumcision improved my experience in sex.
Circumcision also reduces infection, and spreading infections to partners.

Also, there's many different ways to injure the foreskin during and it can get in the way of having a full sex life. My cousin is one such person. He's always cautious not to get carried away because he's injured himself a few times. Some have tight or overly sensitive frenulums, and some have torn their foreskins. Or suffered with chaffing and other problems.

I'd argue that it looks better, but that's just my subjective opinion. Others like the look of foreskin.

Most of what you wrote is subjective. There are just as many, or perhaps even more people, with issues after a circumcision than in the populace where it is left by itself.
I aknowledge that a minority experiences phimosis or related issues - but that is true for many other body parts or organ-ailments that we don't remove pre-emtively.

Dr. Kellogs original idea with circumcising male infants in the US was actually to lessen the sexdrive - his theory at the time - later on some US funded research found the benifits to health was slighty higher - still, safe sex and one partner sex is way safer than doing surgery on boys long before they even know if they are going to be having unsafe sex - plus the places where the health benefits were most significant was in populations with poor access to clean water and sexual education. And even though these so called benefits as in reducing infections - even HIV is mentioned, those infections still appear in the circumcised populace.

Your anectdotal stories about chafing and torn foreskins etc. sound to me like clumsy and/or unlucky dudes that had their minds elsewhere.

The key point is what you bring up yourself - you got circumsiced willingly and knowingly later in life - your choice - not a priest, a doctor or a parent.

 

[freedomm]

Most of what you wrote is subjective. There are just as many, or perhaps even more people, with issues after a circumcision than in the populace where it is left by itself.
I aknowledge that a minority experiences phimosis or related issues - but that is true for many other body parts or organ-ailments that we don't remove pre-emtively.

Dr. Kellogs original idea with circumcising male infants in the US was actually to lessen the sexdrive - his theory at the time - later on some US funded research found the benifits to health was slighty higher - still, safe sex and one partner sex is way safer than doing surgery on boys long before they even know if they are going to be having unsafe sex - plus the places where the health benefits were most significant was in populations with poor access to clean water and sexual education. And even though these so called benefits as in reducing infections - even HIV is mentioned, those infections still appear in the circumcised populace.

Your anectdotal stories about chafing and torn foreskins etc. sound to me like clumsy and/or unlucky dudes that had their minds elsewhere.

The key point is what you bring up yourself - you got circumsiced willingly and knowingly later in life - your choice - not a priest, a doctor or a parent.

I'm another who was circumcised as teenager. Take it first hand from me, it's cleaner and healthier, which is why the WHO supports, and even recomends it.

 

[Fofu]

I'm another who was circumcised as teenager. Take it first hand from me, it's cleaner and healthier, which is why the WHO supports, and even recomends it.

so what you are telling us all here is that while you had a foreskin you were a messy boy with a questionable relation to cleanliness? How is it healthier in your everyday life? Did you all of a sudden start caring about cleaning your knob after the circumcision? Hope you realise that circumcision is not equal autocleaning of your junk.
Again someone talking from a solely personal perspective - your truth does not fit all.

My reality is my foreskin never had any issues, I never had a std, my partners say that I'm always clean and ready to be sucked... it all comes down to safe sex and an awarenes of hygiene. I don't tell circumcised people that they are wrong - just advocate for the choice. And I still haven't found any sound reasons for doctors, parents and religious dudes to chose for the infant. (again excluding children with medical issues)

 

[freedomm]

so what you are telling us all here is that while you had a foreskin you were a messy boy with a questionable relation to cleanliness? How is it healthier in your everyday life? Did you all of a sudden start caring about cleaning your knob after the circumcision? Hope you realise that circumcision is not equal autocleaning of your junk.
Again someone talking from a solely personal perspective - your truth does not fit all.

My reality is my foreskin never had any issues, I never had a std, my partners say that I'm always clean and ready to be sucked... it all comes down to safe sex and an awarenes of hygiene. I don't tell circumcised people that they are wrong - just advocate for the choice. And I still haven't found any sound reasons for doctors, parents and religious dudes to chose for the infant. (again excluding children with medical issues)

There's no point because we'll never agreee. My issue is anti-circ advocates such as yourselves trying to force their opinion with emotional language such as "mutilation" when it clearly isn't. The fact that someone prefers a circumcised penis triggers you this much is baffling.

 

[Fofu]

There's no point because we'll never agreee. My issue is anti-circ advocates such as yourselves trying to force their opinion with emotional language such as "mutilation" when it clearly isn't. The fact that someone prefers a circumcised penis triggers you this much is baffling.

The fact that u refuse to understand -
If you prefer circumsiced or not is totally NOT the issue.
Adults can do whatever they want with their body! period!
Adults choosing to remove parts of a childs anatomy is the issue. Nothing more nothing less. "Anti circ advocates" - you mean people who believe in the free choice of the individual?
I'd rather be blamed for "trying to force" people to not do anything to children than being openly admitting to wanting to risk their sons health and function of their genitalia...

 

[freedomm]

The fact that u refuse to understand -
If you prefer circumsiced or not is totally NOT the issue.
Adults can do whatever they want with their body! period!
Adults choosing to remove parts of a childs anatomy is the issue. Nothing more nothing less. "Anti circ advocates" - you mean people who believe in the free choice of the individual?
I'd rather be blamed for "trying to force" people to not do anything to children than being openly admitting to wanting to risk their sons health and function of their genitalia...

Good luck getting anyone to change their views because of your shrill campaigns on what they choose for their kids lol

 

[Fofu]

Good luck getting anyone to change their views because of your shrill campaigns on what they choose for their kids lol

don't need luck - it's happening - the rate of circumcicions not rooted in profound religious beliefs is falling.
It's more shrill (actually cringe) looking at people defending a practise without sound reasons. But go on,keep funding the medical system by not questioning thier practises and keep subjecting small boys to unneccesary risks of a procedure that is not neede in the majority of cases.

 

[Rican84]

I'm another who was circumcised as teenager. Take it first hand from me, it's cleaner and healthier, which is why the WHO supports, and even recomends it.

Admitting you had bad hygiene is not the flex you think it is.

It's ok if you're cut and ok if you're uncut. Stop the propaganda.

I'm uncut and I'm always clean about it. Soap and water works wonders. Try it sometime.

 

[Rican84]

There's no point because we'll never agreee. My issue is anti-circ advocates such as yourselves trying to force their opinion with emotional language such as "mutilation" when it clearly isn't. The fact that someone prefers a circumcised penis triggers you this much is baffling.

Did i miss where he said it was mutilation?

 

[freedomm]

Did i miss where he said it was mutilation?

Yes, you did.

 

[Rican84]

Yes, you did.

Really? Well, I'm not going thru 39 pages searching for that.