Communal Shower 'inequality'

[4202HHN]

Hate the stalls because duh I don’t get the same experience, but as mentioned before, they seem dirty and I also think they reek of prissiness. However, I don’t begrudge people who need a more modest environment to feel ok for whatever reason. A trans dude using the facilities, e.g. would be fine with me, but he may be more comfortable just getting some exercise and getting out without having to deal with other people’s reactions. Some smaller guys may feel the need, whatever.

There’s also the sentimental attachment I have for locker rooms and open showers. Through school and the Y to college locker rooms and the gang showers in my dorm (oh holy shit yes!) to gyms and clubs and saunas and...well, you get it. They were a big part of my awakening and silly as it may sound, my development as a man.

 

[223790]

The Adelaide Club in downtown Toronto has 2 shower sections in the men's locker room. One is stalls and the other is a large open shower. I got a weekend pass there a couple of years ago. Surprisingly enough, it was mostly young, good looking fit guys using the open shower, steam room, sauna and hot tub completely nude. Most old guys opted for the stalls, and skipped the steam room, sauna and hot tub altogether. What I thought was really cool was a shower head in the steam room to have a quick cool down without leaving the steam room.

 

[herbho]

Stalls are so small that they can set off claustrophobia. The open showers are roomy and freeing.

 

[223790]

thats really upsetting to read.

I don’t know why the designers are insisting on getting rid of communal showers. It’s just another way that they’re seemingly clamping down on all things masculine (in the west at least).

I would actually use the shower at my gym if it was communal. Same scenario, because it isn’t communal, hardly any guys use it.

Me neither. The original shower room was all open with Bradley towers (6 heads each) that guys always used without issue. It was there that I got well over my modesty issues 30 years ago. Ten years after I graduated, the yanked some of the towers out to install stalls around the perimeter, but left 3 towers running down the centre. The towers were used more than the stalls and were more reliable. One time all of the stalls stopped working, and guys just used the towers. When a new athletic centre was constructed, only stalls were put in. I worked out there for awhile, and the interesting thing was that guys (especially on the wrestling team) were either leaving the curtains open, or ripped them off completely to chat with their buddies.

 

[223790]

Stalls are so small that they can set off claustrophobia. The open showers are roomy and freeing.

Agreed. Also, dirty and moldy.

 

[James0909]

Me neither. The original shower room was all open with Bradley towers (6 heads each) that guys always used without issue. It was there that I got well over my modesty issues 30 years ago. Ten years after I graduated, the yanked some of the towers out to install stalls around the perimeter, but left 3 towers running down the centre. The towers were used more than the stalls and were more reliable. One time all of the stalls stopped working, and guys just used the towers. When a new athletic centre was constructed, only stalls were put in. I worked out there for awhile, and the interesting thing was that guys (especially on the wrestling team) were either leaving the curtains open, or ripped them off completely to chat with their buddies.

exactly, it’s all about that camaraderie in the lockeroom and now it’s been ruined. It was a normal thing to have a chat with your fellow men at the gym while showering, banter and stealing glances for comparison/sizing each other up.

whether men like to admit it or not, it’s enjoyable. It’s a place where you can be a man around other men and not have to worry about judgement, and that’s very good for mental health.

the male suicide rate is higher than ever, and at the times when it was lowest, men had their male only clubs and their open showers. Obviously it’s a reach to say their removal is one of the causes, but I think it must have even a tiny bit of influence.

the good thing is, I definitely see blokes of my generation starting to come out of their shell and not care about nudity among men, so I think it’s only a matter of time before open showers and things like short shorts come back into circulation.

 

[James0909]

The Adelaide Club in downtown Toronto has 2 shower sections in the men's locker room. One is stalls and the other is a large open shower. I got a weekend pass there a couple of years ago. Surprisingly enough, it was mostly young, good looking fit guys using the open shower, steam room, sauna and hot tub completely nude. Most old guys opted for the stalls, and skipped the steam room, sauna and hot tub altogether. What I thought was really cool was a shower head in the steam room to have a quick cool down without leaving the steam room.

Yep this has been my experience too. I was born in the 90s, and I’m now early 20s, and my generation is starting to have no problem with open nudity and showering in open showers.

it tends to be the previous generation (the kids of baby boomers) who seem really bashful about nudity and showering openly.

Not to mention young guys like myself now routinely wear short shorts and speedos in hot weather (it helps that I’m in Australia). But that old baggy long style of shorts and swimwear is starting to become extinct.

things are starting to look up at least.

 

[Anton565]

"... and the gang showers in my dorm (oh holy shit yes!) "

I remember walking into the men's shower in my dorm for the first time to see several guys just sort of staring at the showers. I looked as well and.... Stalls. We all thought it was very weird. This was the mid 80's.

 

[Anton565]

I agree for the most part.

The "sizing up/ comparing" thing is a pet peeve. Anyone who's done it or been in that environment (and paid attention to the conversation) is well aware that even the straightest guys do that exactly the same way they size up/ compare each others biceps. For those of us of a certain age, it's really a reach to make something sexual about it.

Sorry, I had a larger point but my brain is off. Apologies.

exactly, it’s all about that camaraderie in the lockeroom and now it’s been ruined. It was a normal thing to have a chat with your fellow men at the gym while showering, banter and stealing glances for comparison/sizing each other up.

whether men like to admit it or not, it’s enjoyable. It’s a place where you can be a man around other men and not have to worry about judgement, and that’s very good for mental health.

the male suicide rate is higher than ever, and at the times when it was lowest, men had their male only clubs and their open showers. Obviously it’s a reach to say their removal is one of the causes, but I think it must have even a tiny bit of influence.

the good thing is, I definitely see blokes of my generation starting to come out of their shell and not care about nudity among men, so I think it’s only a matter of time before open showers and things like short shorts come back into circulation.

 

[veronakid2000]

Also, here's an example from Australia:

Torrens Rowing Club, Adelaide, South Australia

Men's:
View attachment 15340401


Women's:
View attachment 15340411

The women’s one there reminded me of my old squash club. Three cubicles with curtains just like that. At the side of changing room so surrounded on three sides by benches (no lockers just clothes hooks).

Only four courts so could cope with numbers.

But the accepted but unspoken “use protocol” was that you did not close the curtains! You would stand washing your balls facing the room and chatting with who was in the room getting changed! Seem perfectly normal. I remember one Muslim lad - superb player and nicest bloke you could wish to meet - would step in the shower with his boxers on and was the only one to close the curtain.

I assumed it was a religious thing.but that didn’t prevent the banter, people shouting “what have you got to hide”, “when are we going to get a look at it” and the like. He would them come out with his towel on and dress under the towel. He took it all in good humour! Even though he got that every time from some club members. He used to bring in some amazing food to share with us every week.

I miss that basic, human, real interaction and friendship. I like my posh gym showers. But as a number of people have commented above there is something about showering together naked that builds comradeship. Perhaps it is just showing you venerability and acceptance of each other as they are?

 

[NGZen]

I miss that basic, human, real interaction and friendship. I like my posh gym showers. But as a number of people have commented above there is something about showering together naked that builds comradeship. Perhaps it is just showing you venerability and acceptance of each other as they are?

A really interesting recent Master's thesis by Eric C. Moore covers this very subject:

Moore, Eric Christopher, "Designing Community: Residence Halls, Shower Facilities, and Experiences of Community amongst Male Students" (2018). Master of Arts in Higher Education Theses. 118.
Available at: Designing Community: Residence Halls, Shower Facilities, and Experiences of Community amongst Male Students

Here is a section from the Discussion section:

 

[James0909]

A really interesting recent Master's thesis by Eric C. Moore covers this very subject:

Moore, Eric Christopher, "Designing Community: Residence Halls, Shower Facilities, and Experiences of Community amongst Male Students" (2018). Master of Arts in Higher Education Theses. 118.
Available at: Designing Community: Residence Halls, Shower Facilities, and Experiences of Community amongst Male Students

Here is a section from the Discussion section:

View attachment 15369891 View attachment 15370191 View attachment 15370201 View attachment 15370211 View attachment 15370221

this is a very good find

I knew I wasn’t imagining things. So removing open showers can indirectly be bad for male mental health.

I’m not saying this because I just want to ogle at naked men or whatever (that’s not my intention). I’m saying this out of concern and disappointment. I wish I grew up in the 60s and 70s where men’s only naked swimming took place. I wish I had a closer bond with my male friends. Even some of my closest ones, there’s that barrier there. Although a large group of other friends that I know through sport have no problem with open nudity amongst men (showering, and just sitting around naked) and I think we’re all very close and the bond between us all is immense (it’s a big group of young lads).

really glad to have research support what I was witnessing and feeling.

 

[NGZen]

An article published in 2017 in The Advocate, a local newspaper in Tasmania, Australia:

Facilities not up to scratch

Upgrade call on female footy facilities on the North-West Coast

With the participation rate of women’s sport growing at a considerable, a considerable focus is now taking place to ensure facilities on the North-West Coast are up to standard.

AFL Tasmania have been conducting audits of grounds in the region with Tasmanian Football Council general manager Jackson Hills saying the findings so far indicate that facilities at present are not where they should be.

Cricket Tasmania conducted their own audit over summer, with the two bodies to share the results with each other considering the sports share many venues.

“It’s something we really needed to do, as we need to know what we have got and how we can improve it,’’ Hills told Fairfax Media.

“One of the things that has become clear is that 95 per cent of our facilities aren’t appropriate for female use.

“That is due to the fact that change rooms have been built for the guys with communal showers and not having lockable cubicles.
​

The article doesn't mention any plans for upgrading the men's communal showers, as there is an underlying assumption that communal showers are fine for men but not for women.

 

[Stanmeister]

The thing that I hate about many of the stalled showers is that the heads are often unmovable. The consequence is that you have to turn the water on with it coming out right on you. And generally it is cold for a long while. Very uncomfortable. If you are going to make them stalls, please make the heads adjustable.

 

[EmperorJimbo]

It's too bad there aren't many open showers left in the US. I don't think there are any in the Orlando area.

Except maybe at UCF I doubt it. Oh— and club orlando, but that doesn’t really count.

 

[James0909]

An article published in 2017 in The Advocate, a local newspaper in Tasmania, Australia:

Facilities not up to scratch

Upgrade call on female footy facilities on the North-West Coast

With the participation rate of women’s sport growing at a considerable, a considerable focus is now taking place to ensure facilities on the North-West Coast are up to standard.

AFL Tasmania have been conducting audits of grounds in the region with Tasmanian Football Council general manager Jackson Hills saying the findings so far indicate that facilities at present are not where they should be.

Cricket Tasmania conducted their own audit over summer, with the two bodies to share the results with each other considering the sports share many venues.

“It’s something we really needed to do, as we need to know what we have got and how we can improve it,’’ Hills told Fairfax Media.

“One of the things that has become clear is that 95 per cent of our facilities aren’t appropriate for female use.

“That is due to the fact that change rooms have been built for the guys with communal showers and not having lockable cubicles.
​

The article doesn't mention any plans for upgrading the men's communal showers, as there is an underlying assumption that communal showers are fine for men but not for women.

communal showers are fine for men. Nudity among men is natural. I’m glad this is still the underlying assumption.

 

[jglam]

An article published in 2017 in The Advocate, a local newspaper in Tasmania, Australia:

Facilities not up to scratch

The article doesn't mention any plans for upgrading the men's communal showers, as there is an underlying assumption that communal showers are fine for men but not for women.

It's not as good as it sounds I think. My understanding is most of these facilities are used by both men and women (at separate times!).
As the article states, communal showers are fine for men but not for women. Because women sometimes use them, the team locker room showers are being converted to having stalls.
That means both men and women use stalled showers. Unlucky guys. Even for women, I think teams require open showers for teat spirit and camaraderie.

And great thesis from before too. The research tells us what most of us already knew. Some guys are a little nervous about using communal showers at first, but pretty soon they begin to enjoy them and realise that they are really helpful in building team spirit in sport teams and community spirit at student dorms.

Different facilities provided at the student recreation center of the University of North Carolina Wilmington,

 

[NGZen]

It's not as good as it sounds I think. My understanding is most of these facilities are used by both men and women (at separate times!).
As the article states, communal showers are fine for men but not for women. Because women sometimes use them, the team locker room showers are being converted to having stalls.
That means both men and women use stalled showers. Unlucky guys. Even for women, I think teams require open showers for teat spirit and camaraderie.View attachment 15426941

Yes, you are right. Here is an example of planned unisex changing rooms for an Australian rules football club in Tasmania:

Huonville Football Change Rooms - Huon Valley Council

Huonville Football Change Rooms
Inform



New unisex change rooms will be built at the Huonville Recreation Ground following a successful application for grant funding to remedy the lack of suitable facilities for female players.

Funding for the project comes from the Tasmanian Government’s Levelling the Playing Field Grants Program, along with contributions from AFL Tasmania and Bendigo Bank and asset renewal funds from Council’s 2019/20 budget.

An AFL Audit in June 2017 ranked the existing 1950’s change rooms as 28/50 and deemed them unsuitable for female players. Council has been working in close consultation with the Huonville Lions Football Club to address this matter.

Catering for unisex use, the new design removes urinals and open showers and includes toilet and shower cubicles that allow for better privacy, as well as accessible toilet and baby change facilities.

Council consulted with key stakeholders in the development of this project:

• Huonville Football Club
• Huonville Recreation Area Management Advisory Committee
• Huonville Cricket Club
• Huon Valley Aquatic
• Huonville Netball Association
• Huon Valley Soccer Club
• Huon Valley Little Athletics

Floor plan​

Also, here are the Australian Football League (AFL)'s Preferred Facility Guidelines for State, Regional, Local. School and Remote Facilities - 2019:

AFL Community: Preferred Facilities Guidelines

View attachment 15453691

 

[jglam]

Yes, you are right. Here is an example of planned unisex changing rooms for an Australian rules football club in Tasmania:]

I've liked it, but it's not a real like. More like a real shame. Here in the UK I worry we might be going the same way soon. The old Sport England guidance was clear in recommending communal showers. The new advice published in 2016 changed though to say designers may need to consider female and community use and install stalls. I have (luckily) yet to see a team changing room with shower stalls, but it may be on the horizon.

As an antidote, this is a changing room designed by Convenience services which is one of the largest providers of portable building style changing rooms here. It's pretty clear what type of design they prefer as this is their male and female model.

 

[223790]