I'm about as anti-religion as one can be, but I've recently started to get to know a truly devout Catholic. I mean, this guy actually works for the Church. I'm just wondering if anyone, from either side of the aisle, has ever dated someone with a polar-opposite religious view, and I don't mean one Jewish, one Muslim. I would really be interested to know how a religious person views the antireligious.
Dating the devout
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invisibleman
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I think that it depends on the person.
IF I were considering dating a guy who had extreme devout religious beliefs...and it was causing issues where I would have to adopt his beliefs in my life, I wouldn't be in a relationship with him.
I have studied a LOT of religions in my early twenties, anyway. I haven't found a faith...people of faith...that I was completely sold on to completely give of myself to its extremes and their way of living.
IF I were considering dating a guy who had extreme devout religious beliefs...and it was causing issues where I would have to adopt his beliefs in my life, I wouldn't be in a relationship with him.
I have studied a LOT of religions in my early twenties, anyway. I haven't found a faith...people of faith...that I was completely sold on to completely give of myself to its extremes and their way of living.
Just a month ago I broke up with this guy because he kept criticizing my every religious act. "Why you pray five times a day? Why you never drink? Don't you think it's stupid to not eat pork?" Gahh!! It's annoying. I will never shove my belief down your throat, but when you start shoving your atheism down mine, it's a deal breaker.
For me, we live in such a diverse world where a nation no longer contains one type of people. We live in a multiethnic and multireligious place. One's lack of ability to let other people practice their own belief or lack of belief is very irritating. I mean, what's wrong if your bf is religious? Let him do his religious stuffs and when he does, you do your own stuffs. I used to date this guy who drinks A LOT and I don't because of my religious belief. I let him drink and I never ever forbid him from doing so, and I even sometimes accompanied him to a bar just because he couldn't go there alone and I just ordered a coke. I mean, if he starts to ask you to be religious too, then it's another story, but I think people in modern world are very educated now to be forcing their belief upon others.
Let me tell you this: the world is a much better place when people just put issues like this aside and enjoy each other's company.
For me, we live in such a diverse world where a nation no longer contains one type of people. We live in a multiethnic and multireligious place. One's lack of ability to let other people practice their own belief or lack of belief is very irritating. I mean, what's wrong if your bf is religious? Let him do his religious stuffs and when he does, you do your own stuffs. I used to date this guy who drinks A LOT and I don't because of my religious belief. I let him drink and I never ever forbid him from doing so, and I even sometimes accompanied him to a bar just because he couldn't go there alone and I just ordered a coke. I mean, if he starts to ask you to be religious too, then it's another story, but I think people in modern world are very educated now to be forcing their belief upon others.
Let me tell you this: the world is a much better place when people just put issues like this aside and enjoy each other's company.
I don't have a problem with people being religious, as long as it doesn't lead to hate and intolerance.
I'm definitely going to date him. The feeling is there, and at the very least, it's a road I've yet to travel. That's the main reason I'm looking to read about others' experiences. I find his passion for his religion unexpectedly attractive. Sex isn't an issue and he's not in the closet. He's also never (not yet anyway) tried to force anything on me. I have no problem with prayer. I witness it during the holidays with some of my family.
I think I would have a much bigger issue with an alcoholic, because alcoholism isn't something that one does alone. That effects everyone with a relationship to the alcoholic.
I'm definitely going to date him. The feeling is there, and at the very least, it's a road I've yet to travel. That's the main reason I'm looking to read about others' experiences. I find his passion for his religion unexpectedly attractive. Sex isn't an issue and he's not in the closet. He's also never (not yet anyway) tried to force anything on me. I have no problem with prayer. I witness it during the holidays with some of my family.
I think I would have a much bigger issue with an alcoholic, because alcoholism isn't something that one does alone. That effects everyone with a relationship to the alcoholic.
No, I don't mean that he was alcoholic, just that he sets a routine where at night he can't stay at home and must go out and at the same time he'd like to drink. So, he drinks everyday but not to the level that he's an alcoholic.
And anyway, I admit that some religious guys do have the capacity for hate and intolerance, but so do some atheist guys. I'd just say that it's people, not specific kind.
And anyway, I admit that some religious guys do have the capacity for hate and intolerance, but so do some atheist guys. I'd just say that it's people, not specific kind.
Phil Ayesho
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Yeah, he's gay. I haven't detected any internal conflicts yet. I guess selective acceptance of what's written in the bible goes both ways.
I get your point, Phil, even if I think it's a false equivalency.
I get your point, Phil, even if I think it's a false equivalency.
Smaccoms
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Just so everyone is clear on my stance on the actual topic at hand, I identify as a pragmatic agnostic. Whether or not god is physically real, he is real in the minds of enough individuals that I consider he's got a life for himself in our society. As such, I think it's pretty dumb to pretend he "doesn't exist". With all of that in mind, he's got his life and I've got mine. The two don't intersect, and as of yet he hasn't done anything to destroy mine, so I just leave him and his bits alone out of respect.
On a separate note, I generally disapprove of organized religion because most tell you what to think and why. Just like the public educational system in America, it teaches you how to mimic and memorize, rather than to think critically and question the world around you. If some people need that much of a guiding hand in there life, that's perfectly fine. I suppose I would just prefer different methods to helping that large amount of people, you know?
I hope it's pretty clear I consider god to be a separate topic from organized religion. They certainly interact with one another and overlap in some places, but I do believe them to be somewhat independent subjects. There is a difference between a man of faith and a man of the church.
Now, the one thing I made the post to actually say was that the distinction you are trying to make between an alcoholic and this man seems pretty darn thin.
What I believe defines an alcoholic is someone who cannot make it through the day without alcoholic support at some point. The person in question doesn't even need to drink to the point of inebriation (i.e., not a defining feature for all alcoholics). The determining factor is if the person uses alcohol as their one and only form of stress management. Do not quote me on that, but I am pretty sure that's at least a major part of the definition.
D_BenJo_Ahanakokolele
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i was with a guy very briefly, he would be in NYC for business and he was very religious. i mean he believed in December 21 as the end of the world, god is going to bring the seven plagues. Etc Etc Etc. The sex was fun and i mean he had the sweetest cum ever. he was practically a monk. Anyways after a few times i would leave feeling depressed because he made it seem like i was going hell if I don't pray or go to church and what not. So i stopped seeing him.
it was fun those few times in his hotel room. I'll leave it at that.
it was fun those few times in his hotel room. I'll leave it at that.
I'm not here to talk about alcoholism. I don't drink so I don't know how that's like. My friend was fine and him drinking did not interfere with his personal and professional life so I didn't question him. So, end of story.
Regarding the religion issue. That's the problem. People ask the world to be open, to be more critical, but when it comes to organized religion, it's a big no-no, they close their mind. It's fine if you want to be critical but why you have to force others to do the same? What's real harms have organized religions done to people other than "mimic and memorize"? Terorrism? I don't think it's as much the religion as the people that are messed up. People are messed up.
I live in a country whose culture is tied very tightly with religious traditions. I don't see my country as backward or outdated because of my religion. My country survives until now. In fact we live with other major religions like Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity, but we live harmoniously with each other. Some of us are Muslim scientists, Buddhist good samaritans, Christian successful businessmen, so I don't see your point frankly.
I admit Malaysia does need to be a gay-friendlier country, but that's another issue not pointed out by the OP. If you are a religious gay such as me, I just date. There are many religious gays in here and they can date whoever they want. We just need to compromise, which is something that you do even if you're not religious and you're in a relationship.
Let people believe in unicorns if they wish as long as it brings benefits to the believers. Who are we to question their belief?
Regarding the religion issue. That's the problem. People ask the world to be open, to be more critical, but when it comes to organized religion, it's a big no-no, they close their mind. It's fine if you want to be critical but why you have to force others to do the same? What's real harms have organized religions done to people other than "mimic and memorize"? Terorrism? I don't think it's as much the religion as the people that are messed up. People are messed up.
I live in a country whose culture is tied very tightly with religious traditions. I don't see my country as backward or outdated because of my religion. My country survives until now. In fact we live with other major religions like Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity, but we live harmoniously with each other. Some of us are Muslim scientists, Buddhist good samaritans, Christian successful businessmen, so I don't see your point frankly.
I admit Malaysia does need to be a gay-friendlier country, but that's another issue not pointed out by the OP. If you are a religious gay such as me, I just date. There are many religious gays in here and they can date whoever they want. We just need to compromise, which is something that you do even if you're not religious and you're in a relationship.
Let people believe in unicorns if they wish as long as it brings benefits to the believers. Who are we to question their belief?
Smaccoms
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I would not count Buddhism and Taoism as organized religions, but as philosophies. I admit, they share SOME traits OF an organized religion (say, the presence of religious traditions), but are definitely different (Buddhism is not organized into a single entity, like Christianity around THE CHURCH). An organized religion is a cultural institution in society just like professional sports or higher education is (at least in developed countries; my knowledge of developing countries is far less 'complete'). The church reinforces and spreads certain cultural norms just as professional sports does in the global social structure we live in (i.e. global capitalism). Buddhism isn't organized at that level, and so doesn't have the same impact. It might have that same impact on a much smaller scale (is it organized into one entity in Malaysia?), but the global society of Earth (as far as I can tell) doesn't have Buddhism or Taoism as major cultural institutions.
I kind of just spat this out, so I probably didn't word it in the most eloquent of fashions.
What about anyone else? How do you define an "organized religion"?
I kind of just spat this out, so I probably didn't word it in the most eloquent of fashions.
What about anyone else? How do you define an "organized religion"?
I'm not sure how I would define it. I guess when your faith in a god has to take on a formal structure shared by others with a similar faith, that's organized religion. I usually think of government when I think of organized religion, some oligarchy making the rules for all the followers.
Lopo2000, I'm assuming from your last post that you're Muslim (only because you mention Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity as "other"), but that's irrelevant to my question. You are a religious person. How do you reconcile that with your homosexuality? If you're at peace now, was there ever a time when you weren't? Being gay without religion is difficult enough. I can't imagine the additional internal conflicts that would arise.
Lopo2000, I'm assuming from your last post that you're Muslim (only because you mention Buddhism, Taoism, and Christianity as "other"), but that's irrelevant to my question. You are a religious person. How do you reconcile that with your homosexuality? If you're at peace now, was there ever a time when you weren't? Being gay without religion is difficult enough. I can't imagine the additional internal conflicts that would arise.
Well, I did have my difficult moments, but that's only because I just found out about it and I'm adjusting my whole life for it. So if anything, it's homosexuality that requires me to make an adjustment, not religion. Even just a month ago I broke up (I mean, not really break up, but to realize that we weren't working together after a few dates) with a guy because of this as I said earlier, so the learning process is continuous. But now I guess I'm maturing.
If you ever found a religious gay who has internal conflict, I guess it's best not to dive into relationship with him, but I also suggest that you stay friends with him because he sure needs some supports that he couldn't get from other religious straight men, especially if his family is conservative. I explored my sexuality alone and noone in my village or in my place I could tell to, so I understand how it's like to be alone and lonely.
****
Anyways, I'm also not here to talk about what is or what is not an organized religion, because I'm sure it'll lead to long useless unnecessary debate, so I want to drop it. But go ahead if you want to continue talking about it.
twoton
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I think eventually your differences will divide you. You might be able to gloss over it, but realistically, if you both really hold strong views it would be hard to see how the relationship would survive long term. And I don't mean differences like a Baptist might disagree with a Presbyterian on some points. He works for the Church, you describe yourself as anti-religious.
As someone else said--it comes down to your values. If you share the same values, I dunno, maybe you can make it work, as long as you don't get into deep discussions about the basis of those values.
I had anti-religion friends whose opinions were so vituperative that their friendly smiles eventually became sneers. I'm not particularly religious, but the sniping wore away at me and finally I walked away from their friendship.
As someone else said--it comes down to your values. If you share the same values, I dunno, maybe you can make it work, as long as you don't get into deep discussions about the basis of those values.
I had anti-religion friends whose opinions were so vituperative that their friendly smiles eventually became sneers. I'm not particularly religious, but the sniping wore away at me and finally I walked away from their friendship.
If you're talking about differences, religion is not the only source of differences. There are couple who had political differences, or differences when it comes to having a baby, differences when it comes to employment, etc etc etc. Many divorce or break up because they can't reconcile with these differences. So, why make religion a special case? It's like you're trying very very hard to blame on religion for anything. I think the key is compromise. Whatever differences that you have, now you no longer live alone, you live with another person and you're bound to have differences and why can't you negotiate and compromise?
