Define: Open.

jeff black

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Posts
10,432
Media
3
Likes
175
Points
193
Location
CANADA
Lex said:
That said, the amount of people who freak out when two men give each other a a soft kiss or *gasp* hold hands is amazing (to me).

I think it is still really new, Lex.

Alot of people may be willing to accept homosexuality provided it doesnt' affect them in any way.

I know quite a few people who are "ok" with it, only to be shocked when a gay couple present themselves in a romantic manner. There still needs to be a bit of desensitization before the world is going to gasp less.:rolleyes:
 

jeff black

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Posts
10,432
Media
3
Likes
175
Points
193
Location
CANADA
Lex said:
Yeah. I guess I fail to see how two men or two women kissing or holding hands effects anyone in the slightest.
'

Don't be so sarcastic, Lex.:rolleyes:

Yes, the fact is... it doesn't affect ANYONE except for the couple involved. However, isn't that only half true?

Anyone who sees this is affected as well. Some of them might be proud or respectful of the couple, some of them might be disgusted, and others may get turned on.

A person is affected by the actions of others. Perhaps it isn't anyone business what a couple does. Unfortunetly, alot of people feel it is their business.:smile:
 

Jentl

Sexy Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Posts
65
Media
0
Likes
50
Points
238
Location
Ghent (Flanders, Belgium)
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Stronzo said:
Mais.. quand tu écris en anglais c'est presque sans erreur!:eek:

J'assume que ta langue natif est la langue Français? Si vrai, tu as appris beacoup à l'école mon ami Belgique.

(d'accord.. moi aussi. J'aime surtout les bittes :cool:)

Merci beaucoup. Mais j’ai écrit tout ça en 7 minutes… et vraiment, quand je fais l’effort, mon Anglais est mieux que ça. C’était la grande vitesse aujourd’hui.
J’ai regardé trop de télé quand j’étais petit, et j’ai conversé vachement trop avec des mecs Américain :p voila qui explique mes capacités Anglaises.


Mais t’as encore raté ; ma langue maternelle n’est pas le Français, mais le Néerlandais. La Belgique est bilangue ; le Nord est Néerlandais et la sud Français – la plupart des gens parlent Néerlandais… moi, j’habitai sur la frontière.

Maar Nederlands spreekt waarschijnlijk niemand hier, zelfs jij niet ;-)
(But nobody probably speaks Dutch here, not even you.)


And actually, Dutch as a language is much closer to English than French is (the same West-Germanic family). The Brittons just adopted a lot of French words, and passed them on to you.
 

Gisella

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Posts
4,822
Media
0
Likes
114
Points
193
Location
USA
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Female
jeff black said:
This "out/Open" thing.... is not something I am quite ready for.

My only thoughts on this matter... Let's be hypothetical for a moment.

Situation#1:

I come to the realization that I am gay, or realize that I may not have any interest in women anymore. As a result, I muster up the courage to tell my parents and close friends. Who knows how people will take it but lets say everyone has a difficult time with it at first, then becomes ok as time progresses.

FIVE years later, I have had a slew of sexual/emotional relationships with men. I find my life unsatisfying, or perhaps realize that life with men isn't exactly what I wanted... and realize I still care for women a great deal. Now, I have to COME OUT as a straight/bisexual man to my parents.

The Situation sounds like alot of added stress on my family and friends. Not that they wouldn't accept me no matter what I choose, It is just alot of things to consider for them.

Now, I know I am gonna get reemed out.. called a coward, or a shithead because I am unwilling to stand up and make a decision, but I don't care. While I respect Lex, and others who have stood up and come to terms with themselves... I am not willing to do that because I am concerned that this situation is fairly valid in my life. I refuse to hurt my parents and friends (Please hold the bullshit about good friends accepting you no matter what.)

I figure, why not ride the idea of bisexuality out.... and experiment a bit without telling friends and family. Once I find someone who I wish to be fully committed to, THEN I make the leap to the next step.

Also, coming out to a World that isn't Completely Gay friendly sounds like alot more turmoil than I am willing to face at this moment. Being discriminated for something I have no control over.... well, that just sucks.:rolleyes:

I hope that makes sense... and that people will respect my choice. As most of you know, I have yet to have sexual contact with a man. Perhaps I will hate it, and this will not affect me.

kudos on the great topic, GoneA.:rolleyes:

Jeff...can i give my 2cents (like people here sometimes say it?)

In my mind when people are unsure and did not even experiment yet is natural not want to be open...but at the sametime i think we have to be open with people we will experiment with...ok, i'm a romantic and if he may fall in love with you and you are just experimenting ...dont know really how people deal with it ...maybe some are ok with that and i'm just being too sensitive ...but i remember Ellen the comedian and that gf actor of hers , after a while of experiment she left Ellen. It hurts to me, imagine to Ellen.

Than I think we have to be just honest and open with people we fancy to experience and let things flow nice.
 

B_Stronzo

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
4,588
Media
0
Likes
130
Points
183
Location
Plimoth Plantation
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
Arnod_PM said:
Merci beaucoup. Mais j’ai écrit tout ça en 7 minutes… et vraiment, quand je fais l’effort, mon Anglais est mieux que ça. C’était la grande vitesse aujourd’hui.
J’ai regardé trop de télé quand j’étais petit, et j’ai conversé vachement trop avec des mecs Américain :p voila qui explique mes capacités Anglaises.


Mais t’as encore raté ; ma langue maternelle n’est pas le Français, mais le Néerlandais. La Belgique est bilangue ; le Nord est Néerlandais et la sud Français – la plupart des gens parlent Néerlandais… moi, j’habitai sur la frontière.

Maar Nederlands spreekt waarschijnlijk niemand hier, zelfs jij niet ;-)
(But nobody probably speaks Dutch here, not even you.)


And actually, Dutch as a language is much closer to English than French is (the same West-Germanic family). The Brittons just adopted a lot of French words, and passed them on to you.

Merci mille fois ce que tu as écrit ici.. assez informatif pour moi. J'aime bien lire le Français encore - surtout écrit par un mec Belgique :smile:

J'ai quelques ami Hollandais et je suis d'accord. Cette langue est plus similaire à la langue Anglaise mais assez difficile pour moi néanmoins. (hélas!)

(j'ai remarqué ton visage Nordique dans l'image ici)

Connais-tu un petit village dans le pays en Hollande qui s'appelle "Benekom"?
 

Andresito

1st Like
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Posts
240
Media
0
Likes
1
Points
238
Location
Buenos Aires.
Sexuality
69% Gay, 31% Straight
Gender
Male
Gay.

I said to ---> friends and family (mom, dad, sister, grandma)

Know ---> everyone (c' on, all the people know when you're gay)

My point ---> it's cool if you tell to people that you're gay, but it's cool if you don't tell nobody too. If you want to say it, say it, if you don't want, don't. Period.
 

Heather LouAnna

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Posts
1,669
Media
2
Likes
67
Points
193
Age
41
Location
Austin, Texas
Sexuality
60% Straight, 40% Gay
Gender
Female
I don't feel it is necessary to come out to everyone. The entire world doesn't need to know that I love T&A with a splash of balls and shaft.

Family members, coworkers, and certain straight married friends do not need to know. They don't care to know, so why force it?
 

mjcp

Sexy Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Posts
268
Media
3
Likes
58
Points
173
Age
55
Location
upstate NY, USA
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
My life is an open book, but I don't always feel the need to read it to everyone. I end up doing a lot of travelling for work, and when I'm in a new situation it might come up in conversation, it might not. My life goes on fine either way. The family and friends found out when they needed to. My brother says that my coming out made his much easier, so yay for me.
 

naughty

Sexy Member
Joined
May 21, 2004
Posts
11,232
Media
0
Likes
38
Points
258
Location
Workin' up a good pot of mad!
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Lex,

You probably are a person who expresses yourself publicly and openly. I feel if you know how you feel and the other person knows how you feel why do you need to share that in a public place. It feels a bit compulsive. I know you will say I am being repressed. But it reminds me of women who upon finding their boyfriends or husbands having an innocent conversation with another female preceeding to drape themselves all over the man to mark their territory. Or these needy little girls in the mall grasping on for dear life to the boy of the month. To me it says, "See, I am validated. I have someone who loves me" If the man really wants you. He isnt going to go anywhere so why not wait till you get home. IF you have to hold on for dear life that should tell you something. Enjoy them at home. We dont need to share the love. My major pet peeve is people feeling each other in church. Get over yourself!




Lex said:
Yeah. I guess I fail to see how two men or two women kissing or holding hands effects anyone in the slightest.
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
naughty said:
Lex,

You probably are a person who expresses yourself publicly and openly. I feel if you know how you feel and the other person knows how you feel why do you need to share that in a public place. It feels a bit compulsive. I know you will say I am being repressed. But it reminds me of women who upon finding their boyfriends or husbands having an innocent conversation with another female preceeding to drape themselves all over the man to mark their territory. Or these needy little girls in the mall grasping on for dear life to the boy of the month. To me it says, "See, I am validated. I have someone who loves me" If the man really wants you. He isnt going to go anywhere so why not wait till you get home. IF you have to hold on for dear life that should tell you something. Enjoy them at home. We dont need to share the love. My major pet peeve is people feeling each other in church. Get over yourself!

I stand by what I said. One day if I have to leave my BF at the airport/train station I will give him a hug and, if it feels okay, perhaps a kiss goodbye. Married men and women do this. Parents do this to kids. Sisters hug and kiss as well. I don't get what the big deal is. Everyone should be able to do these small things--those goodbye/hello hugs and kisses are important to people.

And I don't really buy comparing two loving adults who exchange a kiss or hold hands to teenage infatuation or reactionary jealousy. What you have described above are not, to me, public displays of affection.
 

naughty

Sexy Member
Joined
May 21, 2004
Posts
11,232
Media
0
Likes
38
Points
258
Location
Workin' up a good pot of mad!
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
They may not be, but in many cases it looks the same. Really I dont see any problem with a discreet hug or light kiss but you do know what I mean because we see it every day!





Lex said:
I stand by what I said. One day if I have to leave my BF at the airport/train station I will give him a hug and, if it feels okay, perhaps a kiss goodbye. Married men and women do this. Parents do this to kids. Sisters hug and kiss as well. I don't get what the big deal is. Everyone should be able to do these small things--those goodbye/hello hugs and kisses are important to people.

And I don't really buy comparing two loving adults who exchange a kiss or hold hands to teenage infatuation or reactionary jealousy. What you have described above are not, to me, public displays of affection.
 

B_Stronzo

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
4,588
Media
0
Likes
130
Points
183
Location
Plimoth Plantation
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
naughty said:
...there are times when I wonder what are you doing this for? I am all for expressing your love but there are some people who remind me of (pardon my expression) a dog pissing on a tree. Trying to make a statement.

Oddly perhaps I've never felt this way watching two heterosexuals expressing affection or two homosexuals. I've never seen anyone publically trying to make a statement of their sexuality and I often travel to pretty gay-arse places.

It's affection plain and simple I've witnessed. And what the world needs now is "love sweet love" IMO.

Lex said:
I agree that being dishonest can be a hurtful thing. I was feeling a bit sad the other day thinking about my kids and had a good friend tell me that, when I am finished my journey--my children will have MORE of me to love as I will be closer to being all I can be. That, to me, is what it is all about.

It really is Lex, for me, a matter of honesty.

The Logo channel is doing a series of exposés on the coming out process and how it varies from one familial experience to the next. It's tremendously diverse in the groups of people it profiles in their coming out experiences "en famille".

Catch an episode if you can.

Without an exception those who've met with the greatest disappointment and rancor are those whose families are devout Christian in belief. Though I come from a philosophically Christian background I never experienced what many have in the fundamentalist version of same. I'm awfully grateful for it too. It appears I simply cannot imagine what it must be like to be gay, teen-aged, and from a fundamental Christian household.

It must be painful beyond painful for those who are aware (as I was) early-on that I was gay. I never particuarly feared coming out but I think I yearned for the societal acceptance that my "family formula" had dictated was there should I tow that particular line. Indeed I tried it for a time. But along with all the other "snags" in my formulaic background (which became increasingly apparent in my teens) it was increasingly obvious I didn't fit any stereotype.

Imagine my surprise to learn that I came from generations of non-conformists in fact.

But back to GoneA's dilemma-

I cannot help but think your children's lives are all-the-more enriched by the diversity (in several key ways) their father represents. It would be, for me, a source of eventual pride were I to have learned my father was gay when I was an adolescent.

Similarly I think denying those closest to you the real knowledge of your own personal honesty is a betrayal of them and you simultaneously. No matter what the reaction living a life of falseness and hidden realities cannot help but eat away slowly at the soul.
 

GoneA

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Posts
5,020
Media
0
Likes
37
Points
268
Wow, thank you guys for your genuine and thought-provoking responses. It’ll help me bring something new to the table when I speak with him again. For that, I know I can always count on the devotees of LPSG.

I still have issues with some of this, but the vast and varied opinions here have helped me to form a quasi-solid stance on the whole matter. In my mind, I suppose coming out to close family members and close friends is essential in order to live both happily and freely. Yes, I’m saying I don’t think you will every truly be happy and/or free until you’ve shared this element of yourself with those you’ve come to know and love. I know terms such as “happy” and “free” are quite subjective and are as varied in definition as the people they apply to. However, by nature, I don’t suppose we are secretive and repressed creatures, especially in terms of sexuality, so it’s only natural for us to want to share that aspect of our sexuality with loved ones. Anything else would be some form of repression and, ultimately, we become the prisoner who searches for freedom within the confines of his cell.

At any rate, all things must be done moderately; BarebackJack and Arnod_Pm elucidated this point and it brought very many things into focus. Just like we expect people to accept who we are, we must accept who they are and know their limits. That is, we must be careful not to put to much on anyone’s plate, but feed them what they can handle (as it varies for each person) and simultaneously not being evasive, but on no uncertain terms expressing who are, really. It is fairly tricky and requires a great deal of effort, but it can be done.

Matthew immediately brought up the issue of our physical well-being. I think above all things that should first be taken into consideration. I’m sure you will agree. Matthew, I know the Matthew Shepard is a powerful point of reference in your life, so I assume a lot of your thoughts on the subject are an outcropping of that story.

Jeff and Stronzo I very, very much enjoyed your responses. Jeff I understand entirely what you mean and understand Stronzo’s response. However, this time, I’m afraid I’ll refrain from giving any type of advice either way. See, I really wouldn’t want to point you in the wrong direction … although, from your tone, your mind seems pretty much made up. I was explaining to by BF last night that I never really had a “closet” to come out because I’ve always made it clear that I wasn’t completely straight. File me under: eccentric.

Jeff, I do hope you find yourself and your way. In life, we always come to the inevitable crossroads and I can only hope your insight allows you to make the right decision by seeing far enough down either path. Do tell someone, though; repression is an enzyme that breaks down the human spirit.

To Lex and Naughty: I’m not a staunch advocate of PDA, but, again, I think it should be done in modesty. I think what Lex described is modesty. However, Naughty, I completely see your point. Just yesterday, when I was walking home from work, I saw a guy grab his girlfriend and give her the business … tongue and everything. The clichéd get a room was the first thought to cross my mind. I witnessed a gay couple do the same thing a few months back and my thought was the same.

That’s a slight issue I’m having with Mark to date. He’s huge on PDA. I think it’s kind of nice, but I could really do without it. I’ll hold hands in a second, but swooning should be kept to a minimum. Sometimes, less is more.
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
2,020
Media
0
Likes
4
Points
183
jeff black said:
This "out/Open" thing.... is not something I am quite ready for.

My only thoughts on this matter... Let's be hypothetical for a moment.

Situation#1:

I come to the realization that I am gay, or realize that I may not have any interest in women anymore. As a result, I muster up the courage to tell my parents and close friends. Who knows how people will take it but lets say everyone has a difficult time with it at first, then becomes ok as time progresses.

FIVE years later, I have had a slew of sexual/emotional relationships with men. I find my life unsatisfying, or perhaps realize that life with men isn't exactly what I wanted... and realize I still care for women a great deal. Now, I have to COME OUT as a straight/bisexual man to my parents.

The Situation sounds like alot of added stress on my family and friends. Not that they wouldn't accept me no matter what I choose, It is just alot of things to consider for them.

Now, I know I am gonna get reemed out.. called a coward, or a shithead because I am unwilling to stand up and make a decision, but I don't care. While I respect Lex, and others who have stood up and come to terms with themselves... I am not willing to do that because I am concerned that this situation is fairly valid in my life. I refuse to hurt my parents and friends (Please hold the bullshit about good friends accepting you no matter what.)

I figure, why not ride the idea of bisexuality out.... and experiment a bit without telling friends and family. Once I find someone who I wish to be fully committed to, THEN I make the leap to the next step.

Also, coming out to a World that isn't Completely Gay friendly sounds like alot more turmoil than I am willing to face at this moment. Being discriminated for something I have no control over.... well, that just sucks.:rolleyes:

I hope that makes sense... and that people will respect my choice. As most of you know, I have yet to have sexual contact with a man. Perhaps I will hate it, and this will not affect me.

kudos on the great topic, GoneA.:rolleyes:

While you are in a transition of sorts, why would you want to start applying labels to yourself, Jeff? Those who have shared their coming-out stories (like Lex) have already realized the full extent of their sexuality. Once you are aware of your sexuality, then I think it is incumbent upon you to avoid dishonesty with those you care about. If you don't, you damage the relationships. Is this close to what you're thinking, Jeff?
 

Gisella

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Posts
4,822
Media
0
Likes
114
Points
193
Location
USA
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Female
GoneA..what's PDA..:confused:

I will not conform with 'modesty' of affection thou...as me coming from society you give kisses to everybody and when you are single you supose to give extra kisses as 'hello you, please to met you'...

But I try to understand and give 'you' your cultural space....:rolleyes: :biggrin1:


:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :hug: :hug: :hug:
 

GoneA

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Posts
5,020
Media
0
Likes
37
Points
268
Gisella said:
GoneA..what's PDA..:confused:

Public Displays of Affection. Also know as: Public Affection (PA).

Gisella said:
I will not conform with 'modesty' of affection thou...as me coming from society you give kisses to everybody and when you are single you supose to give extra kisses as 'hello you, please to met you'...

But I try to understand and give 'you' your cultural space....:rolleyes: :biggrin1:

Those are more for greetings, right? Or is PDA more acceptable in your country?
 

Gisella

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Posts
4,822
Media
0
Likes
114
Points
193
Location
USA
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Female
GoneA said:
Public Displays of Affection. Also know as: Public Affection (PA).



Those are more for greetings, right? Or is PDA more acceptable in your country?

:redface:

Yes we are GoneA..and some couples roles passionatly in beach sands, standing on cars, deep wet tongue kisses going on all over and etc...we do have laws but people are very affectioned in public, can be scandalous to some or many...

Hope so Brasilian here come to enlight me if i'm wrong about that...