Demonic Possession

[B_Hickboy]

I'm tellin! MOMMMMM!!! Hickboy's possessed!!!

Who told you that?

 

[B_Hickboy]

Who told you that?

Hickboy did!

 

[B_Hickboy]

Hickboy did!

Why, you little...

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I've had a change of heart, between link 30 and 39 I've come to feel that possibly demonic possession is possible.

It seems, now, the most charitable interpretation, doanit?

 

[B_Hickboy]

It seems, now, the most charitable interpretation, doanit?

Perform an act of charity, and you'll be redeemed.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Perform an act of charity, and you'll be redeemed.

I do affirm thee, Thou Thing of No Bowels, Thou.

 

[AquaEyes11010]

I'll admit to not having read *every* post in response to the OP. I do see a lot of people saying that demonic possession is bogus; I respect your beliefs on that. I, however, do believe that there are evil entities in this world, whatever you want to call them, and that it's really some scary shit if you believe in it. However, there are a few things for the naysayers that you may appreciate from your standpoint:

1- The movie The Exorcism of Emily Rose addresses the validity of exorcism (and possession in general), and they have a psychologist character speak and discuss that is possession is a mental disorder, then the psychosomatic process of an exorcism provides a type of closure for the "victim." (The "real story" the movie was based on is that a girl in Germany died during an exorcism, which was actually an undiagnosed case of CP, also referenced as one possibility of Emily's condition in the film).

2- By and large, most Christian communities don't do exorcisms (more or less, they seem to not be concerned with external demonic possession), and people who describe what they believe to be possessions are generally referred to the Catholic Church.

3- The Catholic Church is very rigid with the idea of exorcism. There aren't many priests trained in the process, and they're not dispatched unless the investigations into the matter can't be scientifically explained

4- The Exorcist was mentioned before. Like Emily Rose, the story is based on "true events." There was a documentary about it, and the victim, after three days of exorcism, eventually sat up and started speaking in a completely different voice than "normal" or "possessed," and then fell back to the bed, cleansed. Whether real or not (it's not relevant to my point), it goes back to the idea of psychological closure to something.

As you can tell from above, I can only provide things from a Roman Catholic viewpoint. I hope it provides some insight on the subject (i tried to keep it as objective as I possibly could). And to clarify: I believe in possession (scares me shitless), but I also believe that it doesn't happen as often as people claim. In fact, I doubt the Church believe it's a common occurrence or else there'd be basic exorcism training for every priest that's ordained.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a resurgence in exorcisms as of late, and they are among various Protestant factions. I've seen one referenced in the news a little while back showing a church "exorcising" the homosexuality out of someone.

Personally, I think it's all bunk. Do what you like to yourself, but putting a child through such activity is clearly child abuse, in my opinion, and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I believe in freedom of religion for adults, but children don't get to choose when their parents force them into religious indoctrination.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I do affirm thee, Thou Thing of No Bowels, Thou.

We are hollow.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

We are hollow.

Thou hollow hedge-born harpy.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Today I saw something similar to what i imaged a demon possession to look like. Sadly it was at a funeral....nothing like having ambulance called to a funeral. A little weird.

 

[ferfed]

lol

 

[invisibleman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr8oJqpwZz4

 

[TaigaStar]

Unfortunately, there seems to be a resurgence in exorcisms as of late, and they are among various Protestant factions. I've seen one referenced in the news a little while back showing a church "exorcising" the homosexuality out of someone.

Personally, I think it's all bunk. Do what you like to yourself, but putting a child through such activity is clearly child abuse, in my opinion, and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I believe in freedom of religion for adults, but children don't get to choose when their parents force them into religious indoctrination.

I will admit- the things people do to children in reference to religion is beyond abusive. Frankly, my opinion is that any form of spirituality is there to augment a person's life, not control it. Sadly, however, you get too many people that think the brain is just insulation for the skull and then you get "homosexuality exorcisms" and other such crap that makes me think a breeding license should be required on potential parents.

 

[helgaleena]

I read a very interesting book on African religions recently (and lavishly illustrated too) that involve 'possession' as a desirable religious experience, called being ridden by a god. Not all of these gods are benevolent either. However it is explained, it is definitely a widespread thing. The voudon religion is not exactly the same, as the communion with spirits does not always go to that depth within the devotee's personality.

Somebody clicked too many times on the Hickboy icon and started several copies running at once there...

 

[Maxime_]

Well if you think that "Emily Rose's exorcism is based on a true story,you may change your mind. Possessions do exist and it's nothing concerning mental illnesses. I don't wanna quote personal facts i've assisted to,because i don't think this is the right place but: people talking languages they HAVE NEVER STUDIED like ancient Greek,Latin,Aramaic in the middle of the night while in sonnambula,people crawling and shouting and swearing when they see religious spots or symbols,people (in the worst cases) lifting objects at mid air without having a physical contact with the object and many other situations one only sees in movies,but that happen in real life,cannot just be put under the "label" of "mental illness".
People always need to find a rational explanation to defeat their fears;but rational thoughts cannot explain things not belonging to the material and rational world...
On the other hand,i don't see how people are becoming so sceptic about the spiritual world...we have so many testimonies,proofs,people having a contact with such things every day....what else do we need to believe?
When i think about the miracles of Lourdes,where people with cancer and bones worn out by their illness and about to die,get back from that sacred place and they have no more cancer,their bones are like new and they live....there are medical proofs and anything.....what else do we need to believe?
Everybody's free to trust things or not;we will all experiment them in our lives or after,but i think sceptic people should inform themselves before taking a position as "believers" or not.
Very friendly-like, !

 

[B_hijack]

Well if you think that "Emily Rose's exorcism is based on a true story,you may change your mind. Possessions do exist [PROVE IT] and it's nothing concerning mental illnesses. I don't wanna quote personal facts i've assisted to,because i don't think this is the right place but: people talking languages they HAVE NEVER STUDIED like ancient Greek,Latin,Aramaic in the middle of the night while in sonnambula[PROVE IT] ,people crawling and shouting and swearing when they see religious spots or symbols[PROVE IT] ,people (in the worst cases) lifting objects at mid air without having a physical contact with the object[PROVE IT] and many other situations one only sees in movies[PROVE IT] ,but that happen in real life[PROVE IT] ,cannot just be put under the "label" of "mental illness"[PROVE IT] .
People always need to find a rational explanation to defeat their fears[PROVE IT] ;but rational thoughts cannot explain things not belonging to the material and rational world...
On the other hand,i don't see how people are becoming so sceptic about the spiritual world...we have so many testimonies,proofs,people having a contact with such things every day[PROVE IT] ....what else do we need to believe?
When i think about the miracles of Lourdes,where people with cancer and bones worn out by their illness and about to die[PROVE IT] ,get back from that sacred place and they have no more cancer,their bones are like new and they live[PROVE IT] ....there are medical proofs and anything[PROVE IT] .....what else do we need to believe?
Everybody's free to trust things or not;we will all experiment them in our lives or after,but i think sceptic people should inform themselves before taking a position as "believers" or not.
Very friendly-like, !

Causality and Tautology are words that crossed my mind several times while reading this. I agree that "rational thoughts cannot explain things not belonging to the material and rational world," but here you are trying to do just that--and failing to provide proof. Nobody will accept your claims without proof.

I don't fully agree that we are all free to "trust things or not," when one considers groupthink, false consciousness, mental illness and other phenomenon that effect perception, values and beliefs. I'm sure that most of us do, however, have some autonomous, sane cognition of events.

I also agree that a skeptic, or any critic for that matter, should inform themselves before taking a position. This is on thing we fully agree on.

Cheers.

 

[nudeyorker]

Causality and Tautology are words that crossed my mind several times while reading this. I agree that "rational thoughts cannot explain things not belonging to the material and rational world," but here you are trying to do just that--and failing to provide proof. Nobody will accept your claims without proof.

I don't fully agree that we are all free to "trust things or not," when one considers groupthink, false consciousness, mental illness and other phenomenon that effect perception, values and beliefs. I'm sure that most of us do, however, have some autonomous, sane cognition of events.

I also agree that a skeptic, or any critic for that matter, should inform themselves before taking a position. This is on thing we fully agree on.

Cheers.

Reading this book helped to define my skeptical view points regarding many things that have been documented as truth; or rather that which is perceived as the truth.

Amazon.com: The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (0046442057073): Julian Jaynes: Books

 

[Maxime_]

Causality and Tautology are words that crossed my mind several times while reading this. I agree that "rational thoughts cannot explain things not belonging to the material and rational world," but here you are trying to do just that--and failing to provide proof. Nobody will accept your claims without proof.

I don't fully agree that we are all free to "trust things or not," when one considers groupthink, false consciousness, mental illness and other phenomenon that effect perception, values and beliefs. I'm sure that most of us do, however, have some autonomous, sane cognition of events.

I also agree that a skeptic, or any critic for that matter, should inform themselves before taking a position. This is on thing we fully agree on.

Cheers.

The proofs are there. They are not popular but there are. I have personally seen many things. The case i quoted from Lourdes is a case that has been broadcast on the italian tv not long ago. The radiographies of the "before" and "After" have been shown and they had an interview with the doctor in charge. Not only the cancer disappeared,but the bone that was half distroyed by the illness, "grew back". This is pure science,i am talking about radiographies... This is only one case in a specific field but in any mistery field we have proofs that these things happen...sometimes they are made by men(some crop circles),sometimes there is something more....

If i find the video on youtube i will post the link later...even if it is in italian,you will see what i am talking about....;-)

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

... in any mystery field we have proofs that these things happen...sometimes they are made by men (some crop circles), sometimes there is something more....

If i find the video on youtube i will post the link later...even if it is in italian,you will see what i am talking about....;-)

Please do post.
I have no idea what merits your words have, but if you believe you have evidence, I would very much like to examine it.

 

[B_hijack]

Not only the cancer disappeared,but the bone that was half distroyed by the illness, "grew back". This is pure science,i am talking about radiographies... This is only one case in a specific field but in any mistery field we have proofs that these things happen...

Sorry, but using scientific equipment doesn't make it any more true. Cancers come and go. The fever that I had last year might have been leukemia that my immune system cured all by itself. You can't judge all by one, and you need to establish a causal link, or at least a correlate.

I'm glad that this person's cancer was cured, but please prove to me that it was because of a spiritual cause. Anyone can claim that any event was caused by spiritual intervention. This is one reason why skeptics are particularly demanding of proof of causation.

This might better explain my case:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for "after this, therefore because (on account) of this", is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which states, "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one." It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant (Source).

Edit:

I'll give another example of a post hoc fallacy:

1. On Monday, Johnny wakes up early and sees the Sun rise as the rooster crows.
2. On Tuesday, Johnny wakes up early and sees the Sun rise as the rooster crows.
3. On Wednesday, Johnny assumes that the rooster's crowing causes the Sun to rise. The rising of the Sun after the rooster crows every day is his proof.