emotions....

[13788]

Tender: well as some of you know SB and i have been having some troubles concerning our marriage.
so i asked him this question last night...

has there ever been a time that you loved me more than anything, or that you felt i loved you more than anything.

ok. now he says he has to think about it.
i gave him 15 mins and asked if he was done thinking.
long story short, he ended up going for a drive.
didnt get in until very late, after i went to bed, dont even remember him coming in.

so my thinking is, if it were a 'yes' why would he have to think so hard?
i mean are there any guys here in a serious relationship, that would have to think that long about the q?
why is it that men have such a difficult time expressing their feelings? like he says he doesnt know how to say what he feels, or doesnt know what he feels?
are there really guys out there who just go through life so simply that they never think much about the way they feel. or do men just not put as much emphesis on feelings, when making decisions.
ok im babbling, but you get the idea...

what would you make of this?

Tender

ps, he is still thinking..... :-/

 

[13788]

H8Monga: *sigh*

Well I can't speak from experience. I've never been in love or felt anything for anyone that strongly to be in a relationship other than a friendship... so I guess I could use that. I really care for my friends but if they asked me if I loved them, the question would stop me dead in my tracks. I don't know why. Maybe I read a lot into that word when it comes to friendships. It's like you have to use that word wisely, very wisely. People abuse that four-letter word a lot. They say it and don't mean it. Sometimes you have to evaluate everything before you use it. It would depend on how close the relationship is.

However, as for your question, I have never even heard of anyone being asked that. Is it possible to love someone more than you already do? Can people keep track of it and have it at instant recollection? Again, I've never been in a relationship but if I were and were to be asked that question, I wouldn't have an answer because although I love you, you're not going to have varying leaps of love based on situations or whatever. Maybe I just don't know anything.

Maybe it's not that guys have a problem with feelings, we don't always, but that is one curveball of a question. I don't think guys think of love that way. "Do you love me?" Easy question. But then again, maybe an answer from him would be, "Everyday my love grows, more than the love I've felt for you before, more than I've loved any other and I hope you feel the same way." ? ? ?

Mush...

Ok it's clear I don't know what I'm talking about so I think I'll stop now. Sorry for the rambling, but you placed him in an awkward position to answer a question that, to me, requires thought.

 

[Max]

Tender,

I don't think this is particularly a male thing ... but sometimes asking or having to answer questions like that feels like digging up a plant to see how its roots are growing.

Just think, it would have been very easy for him to have given the answer you (presumably) wanted to hear. His honesty has to be to his credit.

Hard to comment really, of course, from the outside (!), but I do hope you get back into some sort of equilibrium.

 

[13788]

prepky: Tender,

So sorry to hear that you all are having issues. OK, also as a person who has to "think" about deep questions like that. and the issues you all are having, maybe he is thinking that you asked the question, made him think that maybe he isnt as important to you asyou are to him and he is trying to decided if the answer that he is going to give you, in return is going to hurt him, so he is avoiding it all together. Think about it, if he says that "yes" you are that important to him, and then in return you say "no" then his world is going to come crashing in on him. That is just one theory. My wife and I just went through some very tough times, I lost my job, then her dad died, I got another job, but it was from hell, and I was VERY VERY depressed. Could this be an issue for him as well?? Now are marriage is very very strong, thank god, and a lot of talks and some counseling.

Prep

ps..I may have told more than I should , but if it helps you, then it was all worth it.

 

[13788]

awellhungboi: some really good responses from everybody, but I thought I'd chip in.

I think that's kind of an unanswerable question, Tender. Puts him in a double bind.

"has there ever been a time that you loved me more than anything?"

If he says "No," that's a bad answer.

And if he says, "Yes, there was" that makes it sound like ancient history.

So maybe he's taking a long time to respond because he knows there's no chance of saying the right thing. I don't think guys are unemotional or not in touch with their feelings, but they are often afraid of being vulnerable.

I hope you guys can work it out.

 

[13788]

Tender: ok ill explain a little more because you guys have been so good!

i guess we are at the point that we are both questioning eachother's love for the other. or even questioning whether we had love in the beginning. for me this was a rebound relationship... and it just sort of fell into place at the right time. i think initially the whole thing was more of a lust factor. got engaged the first night we went out. married 6 months later. i was 18. i had sorta wanted to be a nurse, but that never panned out. after that is has just been busy busy busy.
we have moved 3 times. gutted 2 houses-full remodels. then added 3 rooms onto our house. had an unplanned pregnancy at a bad time. baby was early, had issues, and later diagnosed with autism. we then adopted twice. our first daughter drives me insane. i seriously wonder if she is not ADD or something. physically hyper and mentally busy. plus the money issues with the adoption ect. , he has always worked overtime or weekends for the most part, and has had a bus ministry at our church which i despised. he was never home. i guess it was not that he wasnt home but more that i felt the bus and the church was more important to him than me.
so when my mother, my mother in law and i met for lunch last week, i spilled the beans on what was going on. my mother later in the 3 hour converstaion, asked me that question. without hesitating, my answer was 'no'. perhaps i should have thought more about it, but then that was my initial thought. initial thoughts are generally right. i guess that is why i find it so odd that he would have to think so hard on the q. obviously if the answer was a yes, he would know it without having to think. there was a time in my life, that i loved a guy, to the extent that the answer to that q would have been a YES with NO doubts. i dont seem to have that same feeling here....

for Max,
i dont think i was wanting any particular answer. i just want the truth of the way he feels, whether good or bad. i dont want him to say anything because he thinks that is what i want to hear. i had some of the same thoughts there on the honesty thing....

prepky,
thank you for sharing, yes it did give me a new perspective to think on. hadnt thought of it that way.
dont worry, i put myself out here too much too i think sometimes. ? but i got no where else to put it i guess. and, blush, i like you guys....

monstro
yes i understand the vulnerable thing.
im sure he could feel hmm well lack of wording but perhaps, exposed? and well that is a big risk to open oneself to emotional hurts.....


anyway, maybe this will give some more food for thoughts.

i think at this point i have been through so much emotionally, that i do not even feel anymore. i am afraid to. i always get hurt. ya know?
i feel like i cant trust him anymore with 'me'.
he wants to do counseling, but i am unsure that i want to, well you know the vulnerability thing again there....
i am always the loser it seems....

ok well lots of rambling there...
but maybe someone will have some more thoughts for me....

thanks so much...
Tender

 

[13788]

sammygirly: Alrighty.

I had to walk away from this thread and think about my response before I posted. This could get a little long.

I need to start by saying that in many aspects, especially your core issue, I understand and sympathize. Not overly long ago - I was there myself. I was engaged to a man for 8 years. The father of my son, and a damn good one for the most part. My first lover. My first long-term relationship. A reasonable, good man. He never yelled at me. He never hit me. He never cheated. He worked steadily. He took care of me and my son.

But - I wasn't happy.

I denied it for a long time - about 2 years maybe. I couldn't find my problem, I just knew I wasn't happy and I couldn't find anyone to blame. If I couldn't find anyone to blame - I had no reason to change things. Besides which, changing was going to be damn hard considering all that I had invested in this relationship.

So I stayed. And we drifted further and further apart. A difficult pregnancy, a lost pregnancy, money issues - I let them all move us further and further apart in our own coping mechanisms. But still, we had no obvious, in-your-face issues. So I stayed.

He certainly didn't let on that anything was wrong - so what the hell was MY problem?

Then there was Max. We had been friends for about a year - close friends. Neither of us were even toeing the line of romanticism at that point, mind you. This was no clandestine relationship. He had a difficult relationship that I helped Him with....I had my own relationship.

At some point, it became glaringly clear to me that I was in love with Max. How could that be? I was practically a married woman! I'm a committed woman as well, and this was so very unlike me. I'm not the cheating kind. He was not the "other Man" kind. So we can't do this, sweep it under the rug, never mention it, live your life sammy.

I couldn't. He couldn't.

And it hit me - that I was not in love with my fiance. THAT was the problem. It wasn't him. It was me. I couldn't be in love with another Man if I was in love with my fiance. So more soul-searching, a lot of guilty issues and finally one day - I found the right person to blame.

Not him. Me. Just me. These were MY issues. So I ended it. I didn't lie. I didn't pull punches. I didn't try to blame him. I just ended it. And THEN I went to Max, where I belong.

I am IN LOVE with Max - and yes, I can say that I have loved Him above and beyond all other things many, many times. We are going through some very difficult times right now that would make most couples run for the easy road. These issues revolve around both something He's dealing with - and somethings that I am dealing with as a result of my decision to leave my family situation.

The difference is - we are dealing TOGETHER and I am confident that I have made the right choices for everyone involved - no matter how they may have hurt my fiance 2 years ago.

What's the point of my bigass rambling post here?

My point is - stop asking him questions like this. You are still looking for someone else to blame. You have stated repeatedly that it is YOUR feelings that have led you here and that you are unhappy with your life.

These are YOUR issues.

It doesn't matter what his answer to this question is. It matters that you already know your answer. Stop trying to make him be in the same place you are - that's not fair.

Do you really want him to feel what you are feeling? Doubt like you are doubting? Hurt like you are hurting?

Misery loves company - but happiness requires bravery and martyrdom.

Figure yourself out NOW and make a decision.

My IM is open to you whenever you'd like. I really do understand and don't mean to seem harsh.

 

[13788]

prepky: so tender with all that is said, do you want to stay where you are?? or do you even love him?

reflecting back on some of your posts, there are wonderful things that you have said about him, and there are some things that you wished to change, and I do know that you said once before that the EX came back into your life. Did things start to fall apart when that happened or was it on the path that is on already?

Just wanted to give you some more things to think about, and kinda adding to Sammy's wonderful post,

also I guess we all kinda put our selves out there some on this board, and with never having the fear of judgement.

Prep

 

[13788]

joe22xxx: I don't have a lot to say about this post, but it made me sad.

Two years ago when I was 20 I fell in love with a beautiful sweet girl. After a year of being together constantly we broke up. I don't know all the reasons why, but because I was young and extremely vulnerable to her, I had a very hard time recovering from that relationship.

I think when men become that vulnerable and get that hurt, they (we) don't ever want to experience something like that again. So it's easy not to become that involved the next time because of fear.

I'm learning each day about myself and my present girlfriend.

 

[13788]

ORCABOMBER: Well, I can't add too much extra input, I'm sorry, above and beyond my knowledge of life, whatever that is.

But I would like to say, that personally, it reminds me that my parents are divorcing. So I feel for the "juniors" caught up in this.

Tender, take care.

 

[13788]

wvalady1968: [quote author=sammygirly link=board=relationships;num=1066447268;start=0#6 date=10/18/03 at 09:15:29]
My point is - stop asking him questions like this.  You are still looking for someone else to blame.  You have stated repeatedly that it is YOUR feelings that have led you here and that you are unhappy with your life.

These are YOUR issues.  

It doesn't matter what his answer to this question is.  It matters that you already know your answer.  Stop trying to make him be in the same place you are - that's not fair.

Do you really want him to feel what you are feeling?  Doubt like you are doubting?  Hurt like you are hurting?  

Misery loves company - but happiness requires bravery and martyrdom.  

Figure yourself out NOW and make a decision.

My IM is open to you whenever you'd like.  I really do understand and don't mean to seem harsh.[/quote]

So true. Sammy, you are one smart lady!!

Tender, this is wonderful advice. Hope things work out well for you.

 

[13788]

Inwood: Tender,

I'm still answering a version of that question about my first lover. He once asked why did I love him and even though he's been gone for close to thirteen years I still come up with a new reason I loved him practically every day. So some of us do express ourselves but he did have to ask for the info. I didn't just give him a long list out of the blue. (I always did tell him I loved him. I just didn't elaborate.)

The question might have been asked differently. You might want to think about what is it you want to know and then look at your question to see if it's worded the right way. As mentioned by another post it can be a loaded question like yes I did love you more then anything but no I only love you more then most things. It's like that wonderful question, "Honey, does this make me look fat?"

If he needs time to think give him the time. Do some thinking yourself while you wait. There might be something else you want to know. Hope things work out the best for you.

 

[13788]

Tender: no, i have not been ignoring this thread, and i am grateful for everyone's time here that has helped me.

still thinking on it all. he has answered the question. he says that he has not loved me more than anything else durring most of our marriage.  
well at least we have honesty. my own answer was a no as well. so the feeling there is mutual. the next question is whether we love eachother now? to which i say yes for me, and he says yes as well. but the trouble i have is that it bothers me that i do not love him to the depth that i loved the X. why is it?? i hate it. Has anyone else here dealt with that, and saved the relationship? Will my feelings on that ever change?
 so i guess the issue is that i feel as if i am not able to attatch myself emotionally to him, perhaps out of fear of being hurt? does that make sense? so in that case, it is not all HIM, it is ME. would not matter WHO i was with, i would have a problem emotionally letting myself be loved or loving in return?
then on the other hand i know that he has not treated me well at all....many times. so why would i want to love someone who has hurt me so often?
He has said that he does love me, and does not want a divorce... and that he is going to change alot of things. He has been putting forth alot of effort lately. now just whether it will last or not. that and i feel as if he is trying to appease me to keep me from leaving him.
On communication, when we talk, without fighting that is, we find we have similar feelings about most of these issues.
the whole thing is i DONT KNOW if i love him, yes i do, but not the same way... and i have no one else, so why leave? i am just so confused.  I just want to know why i dont love him in the way i loved X...
no i dont think i am looking to BLAME him for anything. just want to know if i have ever been important to him in that regard, because he surely has not treated me as such. and that is confusing when he says he loves me...
Yes these are MY issues, but they affect OUR kids, and HIM as well.
no things did not start to fall apart after the X contacted me. we have had a lousy relationship from day one. but yes that has stirred up alot of questions, and answered many others. so it has been good, bad and worth it i would say.
as far as a reason for loving me, i never asked for that. i would be concerned if he had reasons particularly. i do not feel that love should be based on any particular thing a person does, or other conditions. i loved the X and had no reasonable explaination i could put into words. if you can word and explain your love, it is conditional and that is a bad thing IMO.

as far as the original q and his answer, i think he was having trouble sorting out, that he does love me, but DID he used to, and even though he loves me, he feels he has put other things before us in our relationship.
Whew, what a mouthful...
so for the time being we are giving it some time, doing the journal thing to try and sort some of it out, and we may try some counseling...

still open for any comments...

 

[13788]

Maximillian: Well, how about this comment? I dont normally let My acidic temperment focus at females, but lilone here goes. I know why are you all of a sudden hating on sammy and its the same reason that you stopped discussing things with Me in IM. Its because we arent interested in joining your little pity party, thats all. We give you the honest truth without trying to coddle you and you cant handle it, especially when it seems you are just fishing for pity and not good advice.

Well count Me and sammy out of this poor excuse for a pity party, and the rest of you who buy into it are fools. I have dealt with many females online like this and let Me tell you, nothing you say or do will make it any better. Next week it will just be another "Oh woe is me and my life" party with the same old stale snacks.

I tried to give her good advice and when I didnt cut her any slack and tried to help her, she moved on. Sometimes you do people more of a discredit by patting them on the back and not being upfront and honest with them.

I know I am an asshole, but at least I dont mince words to be popular. I deal in truth, not fallacy. Also flame away at Me I could care less, but leave sammy out of this or you will see the truly evil side of Me, trust Me you have only seen the "nice" version. These are MY words and unlike some, I take responsibility for MY actions.

Maximillian

 

[13788]

Tender: no sir, i do not have a personal problem with anything Sammy has said to me or about me, and quite frankly i feel she is right in many ways in what she posted here to me. I am sorry that you cannot see that i was sarcastically funnin' her....
what this thread is about has NOTHING to do with the discussion you and i had in IM.
and i didnt know i was supposed to respond to every IM i ever got from you? sorry you took such offense to me not recognizing you.
how about this? if you dont like my posts, dont read them. i have read plenty of what you have wrote and even though i have disagreed strongly with you, have never spoken ill of you.
i do think that the entire episode with my son, you did not understand and never will, so please stop trying to get me to see something you know nothing about. Your speech impediment as a kid, is NO comparison to my sons condition. In fact i saved our messages, and just looked them over again, and yes i still think what you said was drivel.
i dont see how you take responsibility for YOUR actions, as this flame towards me seems to be about Sammy's reply, nothing of YOU.
i just wanted to acknowledge that yes i have been reading the replies, and i am greatful for everyones time, and i am still thinking about what has been said here. Sorry that everyone else here has been so kind to me, when you fail to see that your brashness does no one any good.
If Sammy has a problem with anything i have written anywhere, SHE needs to contact me about it.

 

[13788]

Maximillian: [quote author=Tender link=board=relationships;num=1066447268;start=0#14 date=10/23/03 at 19:34:54] If Sammy has a problem with anything i have written anywhere, SHE needs to contact me about it.

[/quote]

Perhaps you should go to the site sammy proudly displays on her profile and read it and then you will understand why I can and will speak for her. Here is the URL
http://ca.geocities.com/submissive_journeys/submission.html

One more thing, anyone on this board who has gotten to know sammy and Myself can tell you that she and I have one hell of a good relationship. I adore her and love her totally and completely with everything that is Me. Anything I do in regards to her, I do with her blessing because I have earned her trust and the right to do so.

Having said that, we merely wished to impart what has made us successful as a couple and I dont think our lifestyle was bought up once, but pure sound advice. If you were joking in the above post it sure didnt sound like it, but if you were I am also Man enough to apologize.

Maximillian

 

[13788]

Tender: i was joking with her very much so.
and i do realize this is JUST black and white.

also i have looked at the above site a couple weeks ago. and yes i read through pretty much all of what was there.
i dont have a problem with it, if it suits the two of you.
but i dont agree with it personally. a woman is in deep trouble IMHO when she cannot defend herself from a misunderstood comment, and capitalizes His Majesty's name. like i said, thats my view of it all at this point...
but power to you if you both are satisfied in that...
enough said.
Tender

 

[13788]

Maximillian: You forget to bow and kiss My ring before you addressed Me.

Nevermind, I can see thru you and I am so not going to be drug into your little, ahem, life. Just because you are miserable doesnt mean I have to be also. You prove nothing to Me by attempting to insult sammy other than you dont want help, you want attention and I am so sorry lilone, I dont play that game.

Oh and trust Me, sammy very much has a mind of her own and can speak for herself as you are going to find out shortly when she posts.

You see, I was going to be a Man and right any wrong My previous post did and you had to try and be evil, tsk tsk.

Maximillian

 

[13788]

sammygirly: You do insult me now, not in your lack of desire for my lifestyle - we are all entitled to our opinions - but in insinuating that I cannot defend myself if needed, or that I am powerless. I assure you, I am not subdued, repressed, mistreated or otherwise lacking a brain of my own.

Never forget that I CHOOSE to live this way - and I wouldn't change that for anyone in the world. He takes very good care of me, and that's that. He doesn't force me. I don't crawl at His feet.

I am submissive to Him, not inferior to Him and you do me disservice by insinuating I'm less of a person for it. So as not to bore everyone else who's been through this with us, you might want to check out this thread from months back:

http://www.lpsg.org/cgi-bin/YaBB.cgi?board=meetgreet;action=display;num=1056895286

Now, on topic - my opinions still stand. It's not easy - but it's necessary. You are confused because you choose to be. Only you can change the direction of your life.

Happiness really is what you make it to be. We choose everyday whether to be happy or not.

Make your choice.

 

[13788]

Tender: i have sent you a PM, but i see you are still insisting on keeping it here.
you brought up your lifestyle, i gave you my honest opinion on it. you are unhappy as usual that my thoughts are not what you wanted them to be.
my name is not lilone.
i never asked anyone here to be miserable.
i have read enough of Sammy to know she has a very strong mind of her own. as do you. and as do I.
you were not man enough to right any wrong...
you apologized for misunderstanding a comment, easy thing to do and i have did it myself on plenty of occasions.
you did not however apologize for the other personal mud you slung my way...
you are entitled to your opinion of me, that is fine.
but please take it now to the PM. since i have sent you a message.

keep dreaming on the bow and blow thing
Tender