Femophobia

[blckbottom]

I was wondering why the growing hatred and phobia toward fems. It appears to me that after so long fighting for our rights. We have begun to hate yourselves. So why the growing femophobia?

 

[unabear09]

umm what?

 

[davidjh7]

Because self hatred has always been common in the gay community---the reflection of attitudes toards gays has sadly always propogated into the gay community. Maybe it is abacklash towardssterotypes---it can be hard to classify motivations for bigotry,

 

[blckbottom]

I always read personals and posts from tops with the statement no "fems". It makes me wonder why the backlash against fems. I realize some if it is due to gay porn. Gay porn now is super masculinate. Everyone is super built with great bodies who grunt, spit, and etc to create a hot scene.

Somewhere, fems manwife bottoms like me get no action. For being who I naturally am. It is as if there are those who want me to hate the fem..manwife in me to satisfy their perceptions of being gay in 2012. I am me. I have no one else to satisfy.

 

[shadowlands]

Is so complicated to explain, but the simple reason is: socialization regarding gender roles

Homophobia is deeply entwined with misogyny, and a lot of both have spilled into the gay community. In the world view of most straight people, because they're stuck believing that relationships are heterosexual, every queer relationship has the "guy" and the "girl". And over centuries, men have been conditioned to view women and femininity as weakness and something that is to be avoided at all costs.

Now, those of us who end up being gay men were still raised with all the same standards and influences, and it has crept into our way of thinking. Hetero-normative behavior is still exalted because of the deep roots of homophobia we all still carry with us. Thus, a two-tiered system of gayness is in place, where presenting as traditionally masculine and "straight" is the top tier, while those who reject the traditional gender role are on the bottom. Speaking of bottoming...bottoms are the "butt" of the joke, because their position is viewed as that of a woman, which is to be subservient, and less-than.

I can't remember where the quote come form but someone once said: "Homophobia is the fear of another man treating you the way you treat women."

 

[rbkwp]

Somewhere, fems manwife bottoms like me get no action. For being who I naturally am. It is as if there are those who want me to hate the fem..manwife in me to satisfy their perceptions of being gay in 2012. I am me. I have no one else to satisfy.


Can appreciate your call OP
Guess i can only say it does not seem so evident in a place like NZ
Perhaps over there in big cities etc, pretty much more common, would not know, but do feel for you and others in similar situations.
despite the obvious and expected no fems' adverts
I sort of like to think Gays dont consciously go out of there way to ignore the Fems.

 

[erratic]

Is so complicated to explain, but the simple reason is: socialization regarding gender roles

Homophobia is deeply entwined with misogyny, and a lot of both have spilled into the gay community. In the world view of most straight people, because they're stuck believing that relationships are heterosexual, every queer relationship has the "guy" and the "girl". And over centuries, men have been conditioned to view women and femininity as weakness and something that is to be avoided at all costs.

Now, those of us who end up being gay men were still raised with all the same standards and influences, and it has crept into our way of thinking. Hetero-normative behavior is still exalted because of the deep roots of homophobia we all still carry with us. Thus, a two-tiered system of gayness is in place, where presenting as traditionally masculine and "straight" is the top tier, while those who reject the traditional gender role are on the bottom. Speaking of bottoming...bottoms are the "butt" of the joke, because their position is viewed as that of a woman, which is to be subservient, and less-than.

I can't remember where the quote come form but someone once said: "Homophobia is the fear of another man treating you the way you treat women."

I cannot express enough how excellent of a response this is. Gay men are just as capable of expressing misogyny and homophobia as anyone else is.

 

[billybones]

More so in some cases.

I post on this topic all the time.

 

[blckbottom]

I under the homo normative example. I am a sociologist and think in those terms. But if it was true, fems would be more accepted then rejected. Look at TV shows like Modern Family and The New Normal. You clearly have a more mascinulate and fem partner or a alpha/beta relationship also known as a husband and manwife relationship.

So with American TV pushing the acceptable homo/hetro normative values of husband and manwife. Why is the gay community so against it? Is it because the heteros accept it, thus we have to reject it as acceptable.

 

[Countryguy63]

While I agree that there can be prejudice and hatred towards a particular type of person, I still have to ask, since when did preferance become a hatred or phobia?

Just because someone says "No ___'s", doesn't mean that they hate them, or have a fear against them.

There are particular body types that I'm not attracted to, but still have many good friends that fall under that catagory. However, if I was looking for a relationship, or even a hook up, they would not be included.

Whether it be mannerisms, body type, hairiness or lack thereof, age brackets, whatever..ALL of us, including myself are in someone else's "No ___" catagory.

 

[deleted804287]

Its a personal preference. Im gay because I like men and I want to date men. If I wanted to date women, I would, so please don't act like one. Its just my personal preference tho. Some guys like it, but it doesn't attract me, so I wont seek it out for a relationship of any type. It has nothing to do with hatred, just not my preference and I dont tolerate it.

 

[billybones]

tolerate

 

[Catharsis]

I don't think that there is any phobia or hatred toward feminine men. I just think that there tends to be a popular attraction and preference to masculine men (with some exceptions, of course - everyone is different so I can't speak for the entire gay population). It goes along with what Countryguy63 has said.

That being said, I do think that shadowlands' response is great and expresses my view on this matter. Personally, I am more attracted to masculine men because they are, well, masculine - and that is what I'm attracted to. I don't know how to explain it and I don't think I can change it. But I've seen some bisexual guys on this very website have a preference for women, but are attracted to some of the more feminine men because they tend to resemble a woman more than they do a man.

It's rooted down to our preferences, and I'm sure that societal norms have a huge impact on this. That's why I think shadowlands does a great job at trying to explain how we're imprinted with masculinity VS femininity during our life. *** And, when men are attracted to other men... Perhaps they expect the other man to act more as a man according to societal norms.


*** I think that this is also why there is an increasing movement in separating the meanings of sex (which is assigned at birth) and gender (which is self-identified as an adult), but that may or may not be necessarily relevant to this topic.

 

[dylz]

i wish there were more people with the healthy attitude you have toward this, catharsis. unfortunately it does seem like there are quite a few people who are actually prejudiced against effeminate gay men, not just that they dont find them sexually attractive. people often say things like what tmblake09 wrote to justify why they wont even let themselves be seen in the same company as an effeminate gay man.

 

[D_22]

Its a personal preference. Im gay because I like men and I want to date men. If I wanted to date women, I would, so please don't act like one. Its just my personal preference tho. Some guys like it, but it doesn't attract me, so I wont seek it out for a relationship of any type. It has nothing to do with hatred, just not my preference and I dont tolerate it.

I've grown to have a lot of disdain for the whole "I want a man, if I wanted a woman, I'd get with a woman" comments. While I was starting to come out as a bi guy, I realized how homophobic I was to effeminate guys and it wasn't until I really started to become friends with some did I realize how ugly certain comments like that was. Most fem guys are trying to be fem, they're simply being themselves. Yes, we all have preferences. I have my preferences. I prefer masculine guys and I'm also seen as masculine. There has been a few times I've found a fem guy here or there attractive, but in the end I'm still more so attracted to masculine guys. Still doesn't make it cool for my reason to be, "If I wanted a woman, I'd pick a woman."

If we're all trying to hard to be more accepted by straights, being hurtful and prejudice against people in the same fight as us due to being slightly different just messes up our cause.

 

[jambgood]

I'm perfectly fine with a gay man saying "no fems." He is entitled to his preferences. I do have a problem with him saying things like, "If I wanted a woman, I'd pick a woman." Those are unnecessary, and intolerant statements.

 

[billybones]

I've grown to have a lot of disdain for the whole "I want a man, if I wanted a woman, I'd get with a woman" comments. While I was starting to come out as a bi guy, I realized how homophobic I was to effeminate guys and it wasn't until I really started to become friends with some did I realize how ugly certain comments like that was. Most fem guys are trying to be fem, they're simply being themselves. Yes, we all have preferences. I have my preferences. I prefer masculine guys and I'm also seen as masculine. There has been a few times I've found a fem guy here or there attractive, but in the end I'm still more so attracted to masculine guys. Still doesn't make it cool for my reason to be, "If I wanted a woman, I'd pick a woman."

If we're all trying to hard to be more accepted by straights, being hurtful and prejudice against people in the same fight as us due to being slightly different just messes up our cause.

Exactly. I don't approach this from a sexual standpoint. I approach it from a community standpoint. The disdain and blatant "femophobia" that I see, in person, in the gay community towards feminine guys is really sad and sick. We can discuss societal norms and personality archetypes until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day we're all fags and we've all gotten shit from the rest of society for it. We've all been standing in clubs or at events or even just at a house party or in the grocery store and seen the shit effete guys get from other gay guys, even if it's just behind their backs. And it all really comes from this place inside each of us where the person thinks "GOD! Why do they have to act like that!? People like that make it hard for the rest of us to be accepted!". BULLSHIT! What makes it hard for us to be accepted is that we suck dick! I totally understand why these people think this way since we've been portrayed in the media as a buffoonish act in some three ring circus for the amusement of the rest of society on shows like Will & Grace and Queer as Folk. Thankfully that is slowly changing.


And to bring it back to sex and online profiles and what we're attracted to, go to a club and pick out the most macho, straight acting man in the room and I promise you by the end of the night he'll have a dick in his ass.

 

[billybones]

I'm perfectly fine with a gay man saying "no fems." He is entitled to his preferences. I do have a problem with him saying things like, "If I wanted a woman, I'd pick a woman." Those are unnecessary, and intolerant statements.

How do you feel when you hear feminine gay men say the transgender community should not be a part of the LGBT community because you have mental issues and we do not?

 

[rbkwp]

Good post billybones #17

we can be real uncouth to our own kind ..
often been saddened by my fellow Gay, and certainly not necessarily the natural effeminates either .. more so the blatant Macho
i am more than Str?? looking myself

 

[erratic]

I'm perfectly fine with a gay man saying "no fems." He is entitled to his preferences. I do have a problem with him saying things like, "If I wanted a woman, I'd pick a woman." Those are unnecessary, and intolerant statements.

I agree, though I'd rather see people say what they're into as opposed to what they're not into. If a guy's profile said "I'm into heavy-set Asian dudes" I'd just move on; if a guy's profile said "no white guys" I'd be a little bit miffed. If I saw a dozen or so profiles saying "no white guys", I'd start getting upset. I can only imagine what it's like for all the femmy guys who see "no fems" over and over.