Grammar Issues

[Viking_UK]

It does bother me, to some extent, to see what technology has done to the English language. While it frustrates me to see how bastardized English is becoming, I am also aware that people from different backgrounds may not have had the same education that I received, nor the same enthusiasm for wanting to keep a language pure. I also recognize that because English is such a widespread language, it is going to change over time. But if we abandon the rules altogether, what are we left with?

To be honest, English has been a bastardised language for God only knows how long. It's a hodgepodge of Anglo Saxon, Latin, French and just about every other language it's come into contact with over the centuries, which is why it pronunciation, spelling and grammar are so confusing and full of exceptions. It's going to carry on evolving in the same way regardless of what people want it to do.

I'm all for proper use of grammar. It's there for a reason: clarity and precision. I'll quite happily read posts which have been written with poor grammar if they've got a point worth reading, but I must admit some of them are heavy going. The things that really bug me are: not writing in sentences, mis-use of apostrophes and mixing up homonyms. I work with and for people who know how to use English correctly and it's just so much easier to understand what they mean when they write.

I'm not going to pull anyone up for poor use of English but I'm certainly less likely to read what they've written if I have to rewrite it to understand what they're trying to say.

 

[Pecker Check]

Some who have posted here have taken a historical (for me it's not "an") approach to some matters of style and grace. I’m curious about when and how reflexive pronouns started to drift into slots usually reserved for nominative case pronouns. Example: “Myself and a couple of friends decided to….” This usage seems to be taking over the airwaves. As with other "hyper-urbanisms," those who favor it seem content they are doing the right thing, but this traditionalist cannot take it up.

 

[Pecker Check]

BTW, isn't it fun to learn that an interest in parts of speech can co-exist with a fascination with body parts?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Are decisions taken or made?

In North America, we almost always make a decision.
In Britain, one often takes a decision, though even there, make is still the more frequently-used verb.

 

[D_alex8]

In North America, we almost always make a decision.
In Britain, one often takes a decision, though even there, make is still the more frequently-used verb.

Decision-taking also seems to be a usage found most often in news reports, government statements, academic prevarications, and corporate-speak. As such, it may still meet with a negative or puzzled response, being construed as an example of jargon intended to distance decision-makers from any sense of responsibility; i.e. they didn't create the decision, they merely selected it.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Decision-taking also seems to be a usage found most often in news reports, government statements, academic prevarications, and corporate-speak. As such, it may still meet with a negative or puzzled response, being construed as an example of jargon intended to distance decision-makers from any sense of responsibility; i.e. they didn't create the decision, they merely selected it.

Yer honor, mah cliundz could never be guilty of the level of subtlety that Mr. 8 alleges.
We plead not guilty, sir.

 

[dong20]

In North America, we almost always make a decision.
In Britain, one often takes a decision, though even there, make is still the more frequently-used verb.

Indeed! To illustrate the validity of the above - from an email I sent a few hours back :

I wrote "... before a final decision was taken ..." - the recipient responded with "... first before we can make a decision..."

Truth be told, I can't say which I use more, and looking back at previous emails I seem to both at various times. Perhaps it's a subconscious thing ...

 

[B_Monster]

Vince, Ive never had a problem understanding anyone on this site.

Monster. Grammar, spelling, and punctuation are devices that make the written word understandable. I understand that not everyone has the same advantages as far as upbringing and education. But anyone who is aware that their grammar is not good, ought to make the effort to improve. My grammar is far from perfect, but I make the effort to use the best I can and I proof read everything I write.

You're a builder, correct? Think of grammar as analogous to the annotations and dimensions on a set of plans; they help you understand the drawings. If I gave you the plans for a house with no dimensions or notes, you'd be like, WTF? You could still build it, but it wouldn't be so easy; because you'd have to decipher all the information yourself. You probably get pissed at the architect when he's lazy or makes a lot of mistakes, right? I know I do. Well, writing is no different. It's all about communication.

I just think that people should try to improve their skills and knowledge no matter what it is they are doing. Saying "screw correct grammar" is stupid. Very few people are asking for perfection, just do the best you can and make an effort.

It's is unfair and not nice to be a Grammar Nazi and to pick apart another person's writing when debating an issue or an idea. It's kind of a cheap way to score debate points.

But on the other hand, not giving a crap about language is equally cheap and can give the reader the impression that you are not serious and don't really give a fuck about what they think of your argument.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Vince, Ive never had a problem understanding anyone on this site.

when I first started reading the posts here, I read just about everything, and frequently found myself baffled and mystified, trying to understand what the poster was trying to communicate

fortunately, NJQT, who evidently works with a lot of our adolescents who are crippled by our public schooling, was able to interpret the missives

(PS, can anyone identify the grammatical errors in my post?)

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

When I first started reading the posts here, I read just about everything, and frequently found myself baffled and mystified, trying to understand what the poster was trying to communicate.

Fortunately, NJQT, who evidently works with a lot of our adolescents who are crippled by our public schooling, was able to interpret the missives.

(P.S.: Can anyone identify the grammatical errors in my post?)

That's a beginning, Nick.
Nothing too wrong there.

 

[B_Nick4444]

cool

 

[BIGBULL29]

when I first started reading the posts here, I read just about everything, and frequently found myself baffled and mystified, trying to understand what the poster was trying to communicate

fortunately, NJQT, who evidently works with a lot of our adolescents who are crippled by our public schooling, was able to interpret the missives

(PS, can anyone identify the grammatical errors in my post?)

Get ride of that second "who" and just say "NJQT, who evidently works with a lot of our adolescents crippled by our public schooling, was ..."

Rubi corrected the other ones.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Get ride of that second "who" and just say "NJQT, who evidently works with a lot of our adolescents crippled by our public schooling, was ..."

Rubi corrected the other ones.

I like that change, bb ... but it's not a correction of a grammatical error.
It's a stylistic improvement, and a clear one.

 

[B_Nick4444]

yeppers

think I'll engage him as editor for some of my works in progress

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

yeppers

think I'll engage him as editor for some of my works in progress

And you thought you had a big blue pencil!:tongue:

 

[ZOS23xy]

The one that drives me batty is apostrophes when used with plurals. ARRRGGHH!!!!!!!

Yes's?

I disregard a lot of misspellings. I'm no perfect wonder with spelling issues, but I do take exception towards people on a negative rant who aren't helping the case they may be trying to build with simple errors. These I might mentally blue pencil and comment on.

And another item. Often an incomplete sentence....

 

[voyeuristic]

A big pet peeve for me is when people substitute "loose" for "lose".

Loose = not tight.
Lose = misplace or shed (e.g. keys or weight)

 

[HazelGod]

You saw that thread too, eh? :biggrin1:

 

[kalipygian]

Some people get so loose they lose it.:wink:

 

[BIGBULL29]

I like that change, bb ... but it's not a correction of a grammatical error.
It's a stylistic improvement, and a clear one.

Rubi, I consider it a grammatical error. Two "who" clauses in a row is a big no-no.

Yes, grammar and style very much related, though.