Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by headbang8, May 15, 2006.
A small, struggling, but important cause: http://www.idahomophobia.org/index.php3?lang=en
"IDAHO" ... nice acronym.
Stop steaming up my glasses!
would be great if we did not need this special day of awareness
let's hope it leads to affecting the other 364 days of the year so it becomes normal to accept homosexuals on their terms, without malice or hatred, all around the world.
"Christians," he said, "are going to have to take a stand for the right to be Christian." (from the linked article)
And what the fuck does that have to do with me?
an essential part of being christian is the right to beat fags to death :duh:
<sigh> And herein lies the evidence of abject stupidity. This is where these idiots scream and whine that they are being repressed, while demanding the right to repress others. The reason I refer to this as abject stupidity is that they cannot understand the difference between the phrase "I believe it is wrong, so I will not do it" and the phrase "I believe it is wrong, so I want legislation to prevent anyone else from doing it." It is OK for them to say "My religion says same-gender marriage is wrong, so I will prevent you from marrying", but it is horrible for me to say "I don't believe in worship, so I will prevent you from praying." They just don't understand. Abject stupidity.
I agree with your sentiment that there should be no legislation restricting the rights of gays over anyone else. I oppose it vocally both in church and in any other part of my life.
However, your logic that implies that religious people should regulate their own behavior and never influence legislation restricting the behavior of others, doesn't hold up. In fact, its backwards. As Christians, our major responsibility is to minister to misery and suffering in the world. That is our #1 responsibility. Morality is completely subservient to that. Given that, I would be compelled to influence laws that restrict people from doing harm to others. For example, I would be in favor of laws that deter people from committing pedophelia and other forms of child abuse. Would you object to my advocating such laws on religious grounds?
Under that Christian "economy", same gender relationships should only be judged on the merits of how they might contribute to someone's misery and suffering in the same way that any other relationships would be (i.e promiscuous, exploitive, or abusive relationships (and I include "promiscuous" not as a moral point, but because it can also contribute to misery and suffering)). Ironically, that means a Christian should be campaigning heavily for laws that encourage same gender couples to enter into longterm, loving relationships with the full protection of the law, rather than preventing them.
Leave it to the fundamentalists to somehow get it completely backwards and manage to campaign against the one thing that would help decrease the suffering that gay couples have due to being marginalized by society. Leave it to the fundamentalists to be against love in the name of Jesus. How twisted is that?
So yeah, I have to say that being a Christian compells me to put all of my energy into social justice, fighting hunger and poverty, and ministering to misery and suffering in the world. If that takes legislation, than I am there to advocate for it.
But I only disagree with the general principle that religious people should not influence legislation. I do completely agree with the abject stupidity in your example. Imposing morality at the expense of human suffering is totally wrong on all fronts including Christianity. And not understanding the precious and hard won priviage of freedom of religion (i. e. freedom from having government employee (i.e. public schoolteachers) conducting religious exercises with your children) is also abject stupidity. Again, leave it to the fundamentalists to get it exactly backwards.
some of that rhetoric may have to do with gays in christian-based churches... which blows me away... as a non-practicing christian.... it's THEIR church, it's their rules... if anyone doesn't like it.... try another religion or no religion.
course, it's VERY easy for the liberal sway to blast christians,... yet not a peep about islam. christians just usually ban gays, islamo-facists kill them... yet it's christians always in the vehement wrong. confusing. yes, i understand christianity has been 'round much longer here in the states, and comprises a far greater percentage of the population, but the hypocrisy on who/what to cry out against astounds me at times.
perhaps its because Muslims don't vote in sufficient numbers in America to sway much power, but Christian zealots have been pretty successful at strategically targeting political parties and agendas with their lobby and seem to hold more influence than their numbers merit. that does have an effect on laws where you live,
JustAsking, thanks for re-reading my post, but please read it a couple more times. I was not referring to christians, just the fucked-up "fundies." My point (correct me if my post made the wrong point) is not that you should not influence legislation, it is that you should not influence legislation to opress someone. Your point of pedophilia is outside my argument - it involves PROTECTING a child's rights to be unmolested, at the expense of the pedophile's (non)right to molest. My point was that there are stupid people who legislate away my rights which affect no one but me. At risk of making every single one of my posts much longer than is necessary, I will henceforth add my usual disclaimer: if you are not one of the people I reference, then this post is not directed at you.
I couldn't agree more. Kinda silly to join a homophobic group, then complain that they are homophobic.
You don't know me very well, do you? I tend to blast ALL religions that teach hatred and murder as the right thing to do. Unfortunately, those islamic laws requiring death for homosexuality are from a verse taken out of context, as are all the christian laws which teach hatred, opression, and intolerance. All three of the main monotheistic religions, at their core, teach that love is good, murder is bad. Funny thing, Islam is especially strongly against suicide - yet the fucked-up fundies think suicide bombers are instantly swept away to paradise... when actually, their holy book clearly states that suicide or the killing of innocents will ABSOLUTELY prevent reaching paradise. More abject stupidity.
yes, i sure as fuck would. the idea that you need a magic fairy in the sky and a book of lunatic dogma in order to know that abuse of children is wrong is a direct insult to human dignity.
faceking, ive seen the outcomes of these acts...but only in very desolate areas and i doubt being gay is the only reason, usually its an excuse to loot legally. i seen a guy strung up by his ankles covered in bruises, he was dead, but the reason that was told to me was that he was caught with a adolescent boy, i should also mention this particular gay guy was wealthy by pashtun/balochi standards and that he "bought" the boy, and the guys who caught/killed him were the beneficiaries of his "estate." though ive seen many many gays in the middle-east(iran, pakistan, afghanistan) even in the most rural areas its not uncommon to see men walking around dressed as women complete with make-up and jewelry. also in the infinite private whore-houses/dance parlors its not uncommon to be offered sex by a man.
*there is plenty of trash amongst muslims, and plenty more amongst christians...dont some gay dudes get beaten to death in the states...? dont act like ur shit dont stink...
Oh sure, no problem. Its just a knee-jerk reaction of mine to point out that most of the world's Christians are not fundmentalists. It might be because having moved to the midwest, I feel like I am in the land of the pod people. Around here you are either religiously conservative or you wish you were. My bumper stickers are very unpopular around here.
Don't worry about offending me. Please flame away. Its good stuff.
You are right about that, but faceking has a point. Fundamentalist Christians may be a big voting block, but are they contributing to the erosion of American civil liberties more than Islamic fundamentalists. They certainly didn't vote for the Patriot Act, but they surely did provide the impetus for it. (Not to mention the horrific oppression of their own people).