Involuntary celibacy...

[Rugbypup]

Involuntary celibacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Britain's oldest virgin is 105-years-old | The Sun |News

Wow! Something to feel good and bad about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bUOfIYY8g&feature=related

This one's a bit of a bitter rant but interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KzaB0ut3xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6Gizp0cuU&feature=related

This woman makes a good explanation.


All kinda interesting.

For those out there for which it just never happened, it's possibly not entirely your own fault.

What do you think?

Pup, x.

 

[Drifterwood]

Depends on what are willing to compromise, both in terms of what you want to get and what you are prepared to give.

 

[25300]

Depends on what are willing to compromise, both in terms of what you want to get and what you are prepared to give.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Calboner]

Depends on what are willing to compromise, both in terms of what you want to get and what you are prepared to give.

That sounds to me about as useful and insightful as counseling the obese person, "Stop eating so much!", or the drunkard, "Stop drinking so much!"

 

[Drifterwood]

That sounds to me about as useful and insightful as counseling the obese person, "Stop eating so much!", or the drunkard, "Stop drinking so much!"

I can't see the comparison.

 

[Calboner]

I took you to be saying that the involuntary celibate needs only to lower his standards to solve his problem. That seems to me extremely unlikely to be effective.

 

[Drifterwood]

I took you to be saying that the involuntary celibate needs only to lower his standards to solve his problem. That seems to me extremely unlikely to be effective.

OK, I'll hold out for Nicole Kidman then.

 

[Calboner]

OK, I'll hold out for Nicole Kidman then.

That is completely irrelevant. You seem to be making the point that people who don't have problems entering into intimate relationships in the first place can worsen their lot by having standards that are too high. That is indisputable. But people who have problems entering into intimate relationships do not have that difficulty because of excessively high standards. Unattractive people are not necessarily "easy" sexually.

 

[Drifterwood]

Well, there were two sides to my comment. You have ignored one and only partly covered one aspect, which may not even be the case, of the other. Did I mention attractiveness? I hold that to be completely subjective.

 

[Calboner]

Well, there were two sides to my comment. You have ignored one and only partly covered one aspect, which may not even be the case, of the other. Did I mention attractiveness? I hold that to be completely subjective.

You introduced the example of Nicole Kidman with the implication that "holding out" for her would be an instance of having unreasonably high standards. If that was not supposed to be a matter of attractiveness, what was the point?

 

[Drifterwood]

It was just a response to your comment, not an elaboration on the meaning of my original comments.

 

[Bbucko]

In this day and age, I find the concept of "involuntary celibacy" highly suspect in Western Democracies. If, barring physical disfigurement or mental illness, you find yourself with no available sex partners anywhere in your area, then maybe, as DW has already said, your criteria needs adjustment.

That's not to deny that some locations are more advantageous to finding certain sex partners than others. A gay man in Dubai or Iran, for instance, risks his life by even approaching another man looking for sex. So long as he remains locked into a society that criminalizes his sexual orientation, he's best off just forgoing anything but masturbation until he can find the means to escape to some place more hospitable to his needs.

These are really two very different problems with the same solution: if you can't get what you need where you are, you need to get yourself some place where you can. If geographical isolation enforces celibacy then get yourself less isolated; if your priorities in life mean that isolation trumps sexual gratification, then you have to understand that this is a choice you've made and the celibacy is no longer involuntary, not really.

 

[Bbucko]

Also, in cases where isolation isn't the problem, this might be.

 

[FRE]

Some people have little or no interest in sex which is OK. I have a friend like that. He knows intellectually that other people are interested in sex and that they cannot do without it without feeling deprived. He accepts that, but it's not for him. We're not all the same.

 

[submit452]

Involuntary celibacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Britain's oldest virgin is 105-years-old | The Sun |News

Wow! Something to feel good and bad about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bUOfIYY8g&feature=related

This one's a bit of a bitter rant but interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KzaB0ut3xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6Gizp0cuU&feature=related

This woman makes a good explanation.


All kinda interesting.

For those out there for which it just never happened, it's possibly not entirely your own fault.

What do you think?

Pup, x.

I'd call her asexual not involuntarily celibate.

 

[Enid]

This is interesting, I had never heard of it before. I find this sentence from the Wiki page particularly fascinating:

Second, incel individuals are at a complete or near-complete lack for intimate physical connection for very long spans of time — years and even sometimes decades, not merely weeks or months — and are also at a complete or near-complete lack of opportunities for sexual advancement in the first place, thereby making betterment of their own sexuality through accumulation of "sexual experience" impossible even though they may have excellent social skills and sex appeal.

 

[deleted3782]

Maybe involuntary celibacy occurs to folks in prison, or those trapped on top of a mountain, but the rest of humanity can usually find someone if they get over their issues (be issues emotional/physical intimacy hurdles, over-selectiveness, or social awkwardness, etc).

Its been said before...but if you can't be with the one you love...love the one you're with. Or find a hooker.

 

[798686]

Depends on what are willing to compromise, both in terms of what you want to get and what you are prepared to give.

I agree, actually. Also holds true in terms of people who have unrealistic standards or expectations in terms of religion etc. Do they have sex before marriage - or risk losing the relationship over it? Do they limit their choice of partner to within their religious group, where there may be no-one eligible...or even what if their religious beliefs state categorically that homosexuality is wrong, yet they feel that is their only viable option sexually? Definitely depends on what they chose to uphold and what they chose to compromise on.

In this day and age, I find the concept of "involuntary celibacy" highly suspect in Western Democracies. If, barring physical disfigurement or mental illness, you find yourself with no available sex partners anywhere in your area, then maybe, as DW has already said, your criteria needs adjustment.

A gay man in Dubai or Iran, for instance, risks his life by even approaching another man looking for sex. So long as he remains locked into a society that criminalizes his sexual orientation, he's best off just forgoing anything but masturbation until he can find the means to escape to some place more hospitable to his needs.

These are really two very different problems with the same solution: if you can't get what you need where you are, you need to get yourself some place where you can. If geographical isolation enforces celibacy then get yourself less isolated; if your priorities in life mean that isolation trumps sexual gratification, then you have to understand that this is a choice you've made and the celibacy is no longer involuntary, not really.

This is good too - it's not always involutary, but again down to what standards you will/won't accept, and what choices you make.

Maybe Cal is trying to say that some people are celibate for other reasons, such as they can't manage to attract a partner - so these choices still wouldn't help?

 

[mitchymo]

As someone who has'nt had sex for well over a decade i can say my reasons are mostly because of my own anxiety.
I'm one of those who pretty much shys away from attention even tho i enjoy it because i worry too much about what other people think. It is a stupid thing but its who i've come to be.
I know what it is like to be in love and enjoy sex and its great but its not the end of the world to be alone either but then i guess as an introvert i don't have such a great need for social interaction.

Basically my point is, ironically, fuck it.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

That is a crap wikipedia page. Read the ! at the top of the page. Let's create a cute little name for it too "incel".

If something is involuntary then it is not voluntary, you could say forced or against a person's will. Hold your breath long enough and you'll pass out and the involuntary breathing reflex will kick in. The holding of your breath would be voluntary. Breathing would be involuntary, it's gonna happen whether you want it to or not.

So voluntary celibacy and forced celibacy. Involuntary celibacy being a loner or not having someone appropriate to have sex with.

Choosing to be so choosy as to not find someone to be sexually intimate with, is voluntary. To me it seems to be more fear of intimacy. Low sex drive, low self esteem, and lack of interpersonal skills seem to go hand in hand with the self described "incels".

Involuntarily celibate would be being a heterosexual male on an island full of other straight males. Nothing around that is sexually attractive, ie females, but wanting to have sex. Not being able to find someone because of skewed sex ratios. Not having organs to have sex, something more like that.

Turn OFF your computer and go MEET some people.