Involuntary celibacy...

[Enid]

Involuntary celibacy = sexless in the city.

Learned helplessness may play into involuntary celibacy.

 

[Drifterwood]

Basically my point is, ironically, fuck it.

So was mine, ironironically.

Also,

 

[Rugbypup]

I find it a little disheartening that most people see this as a simple question of someone not trying hard enough, social snobbery or of being unrealistic in their expectations.

Just go out and have sex, if you can't, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I wonder if that works when you have just eaten, are full and then tell someone starving to just go and eat something?

Lets not insult an individuals intelligence or dignity by pretending it is, for the sake of rhetorical arguing.

I think some are unable to conceive what to be "incel" is. That's not a bad thing, it is often harder to be outside looking in to understand something than from being inside and looking out. It's not missing organs or waiting for Nicole Kidman or being on an island of straight men, though yes, it can be for some.

To say, just go out and have sex, meet someone, get married is the same as saying put down the fork to the obese or stop drinking to the alcoholic. Go and sleep with a prostitute? Totally disrespectfully unhelpful.

I would consider myself to be incel. I do not like the term, I didn't make it but the fact it exists and is studied means that there are people out there that also have problems with being celibate, for reasons past the glaringly physically or psychologically obvious.

Are we all damaged goods?

I do not consider myself to be lacking in social skill, I'm very plain in appearance but not totally sexually unappealing i should hope (discounting women) and I'm not rejecting everyone I meet in the hopes Simon Shaw will sweep me off my feet one day. I have lived in isolate communities though now recently, live in a large city. I'm not physically disabled and like most healthy human beings I have a complex psychology, I'm not irreparably mentally damaged or broken.

Yet I've never met anyone.

Is the solution I should have gone and fucked absolutely anyone if it's so important to me? No, that's totally immature and belittling to me as a self respecting person. Incels appear not to be after sex for sex sake. There is more to a relationship then just sex and not having a relationship precludes you from the whole deal.

Do you fuck a random 'bike' and make her your wife? Having unrealistic standards can result in a form of "voluntary" celibacy that's true but having standards per se is human and we all do!

I can't really say why I'm incel. I tried with women only to be discounted as relationship material, though apparently I am excellent friend material. So having rebuilt confidence and further realising my sexuality I'm now trying with men, which for the most part has been equally unsuccessful.

I do have standards and no, they are not drastically unrealistic. When I say I have simply virtually never met anyone where there has been a spark of mutual interest, I'm being honest.

My love live would fit on the back of a postage stamp and like many out there, we couldn't really honestly explain why. Though I suspect upon the invention of the 'become an instant slag' pill, many of us would still feel just as incomplete, despite fucking the neighborhood and his cat for the sake of it.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8s8r0oER7lQ/SCQOVFGldtI/AAAAAAAABsg/_RaIX_dskgE/s400/pic+(31).jpg

Now if you'll excuse me, Simon is gonna call any second now.

 

[Calboner]

I find it a little disheartening that most people see this as a simple question of someone not trying hard enough, social snobbery or of being unrealistic in their expectations.

Just go out and have sex, if you can't, what the fuck is wrong with you?

I was thinking of writing something like this myself. "Disheartening" is exactly the word. For my part, I think that the question "What the fuck is wrong with you?" should be directed at people who try to dismiss such a serious problem so glibly.

I wonder if that works when you have just eaten, are full and then tell someone starving to just go and eat something?

Lets not insult an individuals intelligence or dignity by pretending it is, for the sake of rhetorical arguing.

I think some are unable to conceive what to be "incel" is. That's not a bad thing, it is often harder to be outside looking in to understand something than from being inside and looking out.

Indeed. But anyone who has watched some of those videos should have the decency to recognize that he doesn't understand the phenomenon, rather than impose some glib and degrading ready-made notion on it.

It's not missing organs or waiting for Nicole Kidman or being on an island of straight men, though yes, it can be for some.

To say, just go out and have sex, meet someone, get married is the same as saying put down the fork to the obese or stop drinking to the alcoholic. Go and sleep with a prostitute? Totally disrespectfully unhelpful.

Obviously, I agree with that (being the one who introduced the comparison).

I would consider myself to be incel. I do not like the term, I didn't make it but the fact it exists and is studied means that there are people out there that also have problems with being celibate, for reasons past the glaringly physically or psychologically obvious.

Are we all damaged goods?

I do not consider myself to be lacking in social skill, I'm very plain in appearance but not totally sexually unappealing i should hope (discounting women) and I'm not rejecting everyone I meet in the hopes Simon Shaw will sweep me off my feet one day. I have lived in isolate communities though now recently, live in a large city. I'm not physically disabled and like most healthy human beings I have a complex psychology, I'm not irreparably mentally damaged or broken.

Yet I've never met anyone.

Is the solution I should have gone and fucked absolutely anyone if it's so important to me? No, that's totally immature and belittling to me as a self respecting person. Incels appear not to be after sex for sex sake. There is more to a relationship then just sex and not having a relationship precludes you from the whole deal.

Do you fuck a random 'bike' and make her your wife? Having unrealistic standards can result in a form of "voluntary" celibacy that's true but having standards per se is human and we all do!

I can't really say why I'm incel. I tried with women only to be discounted as relationship material, though apparently I am excellent friend material. So having rebuilt confidence and further realising my sexuality I'm now trying with men, which for the most part has been equally unsuccessful.

I do have standards and no, they are not drastically unrealistic. When I say I have simply virtually never met anyone where there has been a spark of mutual interest, I'm being honest.

My love live would fit on the back of a postage stamp and like many out there, we couldn't really honestly explain why. Though I suspect upon the invention of the 'become an instant slag' pill, many of us would still feel just as incomplete, despite fucking the neighborhood and his cat for the sake of it.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8s8r0oER7lQ/SCQOVFGldtI/AAAAAAAABsg/_RaIX_dskgE/s400/pic+(31).jpg

Now if you'll excuse me, Simon is gonna call any second now.

The Wikipedia article was not particularly encouraging. As I recall, it says that involuntary celibacy has such diverse causes in different people that there may never be any solution to it.

 

[Enid]

There's a great documentary I found when doing some reading on the topic earlier:

The Incel Project on blip.tv

I meant to post this link too, attached to the "sexless in the city" phrase:

Sexless in the City: Involuntary Celibacy

My dyslexic self got it backwards. Of course. Course oh.

And there's a forum for incel and love shy folks.

http://incel.myonlineplace.org/forum/

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

Learned helplessness may play into involuntary celibacy.

Oh very good point I think that does come into play with some people. Also comes into play in low self-esteem and depression.

What do you think?

I find it a little disheartening that most people see this as a simple question of someone not trying hard enough, social snobbery or of being unrealistic in their expectations.

Just go out and have sex, if you can't, what the fuck is wrong with you

Be careful when you ask people what they think, you don't always get the response you're looking for.

Sure look for someone who's 6'4, 250lb of hairy muscle, with a 9" u/c dick and looks like Pete Kuzak and until you find someone that does then nobody else is good enough. That's a bit unrealistic but some people won't settle for anything less than "the best" in their imagined fantasies. If you meet enough people surely someone will strike a fancy and want to get to know them, all of them and in all ways, including sexually.

 

[Fleur]

Depends on what are willing to compromise, both in terms of what you want to get and what you are prepared to give.

Exactly...I'm in love with a man who doesn't want to be with me...so obviously I'm involuntarily celibate right now. Does that mean I don't want him fuck my brains out? No. I do. I'm obviously not going to tell him that. I'm just not willing to compromise on my morals and who I am for that. I even told him I didn't want to and don't love him. It's easier to just keep it to myself and explain I don't want to and don't love him than get into it when it's obviously futile.

So, I'm looking elsewhere or trying to...it's not that simple though.

 

[25300]

...Yet I've never met anyone.
...
I'm now trying with men, which for the most part has been equally unsuccessful.
...
I have simply virtually never met anyone where there has been a spark of mutual interest, I'm being honest.
...

This plain fucks me off.

 

[Fleur]

This plain fucks me off.

Me too, sadly though, especially lately, I feel the same way as Rugbypup. Even though I don't think there is anything "wrong with me" and I certainly know it has nothing to do with learned helplessness. But that may be the case for some. :frown1:

 

[petite]

I have met people who had to be involuntarily celibate because they suffered from a combination of lack of attractiveness, extremely bad hygiene, and social awkwardness.

For example, I had the uncomfortable experience when I was much younger of having a summer job where I had to train and manage and fire a man who was so socially awkward that while you interacted with him, he stared at a spot two feet to the left and about three feet behind you, even if you were standing right in front of a wall. He was incapable of eye contact and he was so nervous when you spoke to him he stuttered and fidgeted. He smelled so badly of body odor that you wished you were standing three feet further away from him and his hair was so oily that it looked wet and you could see giant white flakes of dandruff stuck in it that stood out against his dark hair. Do I even need to mention the nasty unbrushed buck teeth, the bad breath, and the acne? That's how he dressed for work. There is no way anyone had sex with him. Absolutely no way.

 

[Drifterwood]

Sometimes, rather than look at things from one perspective, in this case the involuntarily celibate, I look at things from what appears to be the other perspective, i.e. the voluntarily uncelibate. My comments relate to the latter and an observation that the great majority of the voluntarily uncelibate make compromises, and I am not being so shallow as to think only of attractiveness or "I can't get laid".

 

[FRE]

As someone who has'nt had sex for well over a decade i can say my reasons are mostly because of my own anxiety.
I'm one of those who pretty much shys away from attention even tho i enjoy it because i worry too much about what other people think. It is a stupid thing but its who i've come to be.
I know what it is like to be in love and enjoy sex and its great but its not the end of the world to be alone either but then i guess as an introvert i don't have such a great need for social interaction.

Basically my point is, ironically, fuck it.

You couldn't possibly be voluntarily celibate. There must be plenty of guys who would like to be with you. You are a sweet guy with a good body besides.

 

[Rugbypup]

More accurately, incel has rung true and described much of my life, I can't deny that to anyone and wouldn't.

Whilst I empathise with those that identify with incel it's only fair for me to say I've recently (in the grand scheme of things) met someone who has been faultlessly interested in me and I them.

Although I'm use to being alone, again that's me just being honest, I haven't know such affection as this silly lupine has shown me and truth be told, for the first time, in a long time, I do not feel truly incel as I have in my life till now.

 

[Drifterwood]

This caught my eye in the Wiki article: -

"The Fundamental Attribution Error can cause individuals to see people as being mean or shallow towards them when they have experienced a rejection of some form, instead of explaining the behavior through situational or environmental factors."

I am going through all your links Pup.

 

[Drifterwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bUOfIYY8g&feature=related

This one's a bit of a bitter rant but interesting.

It is a bitter rant and moreover it is self contradictory. "Don't be facile and tell me that I should just do x y or Z,......... but then feminists and society have stopped me from being a man."

Which way does he want it?

I don't buy into this Western habit of needing someone else to blame for the condition I find myself in. Incel, from what I read from your links, seems to be predominantly about behaviours that people wish to follow and one's they don't wish to follow. The consequences of which would appear to be celibacy. When the guy above is suggesting regaining masculinity, he is advocating a change of behaviour. I would advocate the same, but not necessarily the same as the author. Of course, you need to correctly identify the behaviour that is causing the block.

Alternatively, form arranged partnership co-operatives. It works and has worked for many years in many countries.