I totally understand what some of you guys, esp Dee Blackthorne, say.
Before my first proper experience (see "sex with a large penis" forum), my best mate and I used to wank together. It started when we were 18 with watching a video and him masturbating alone in the bathroom. Then, some 4 months later when we shared a flat it got onto discussing how often we wanked, over what and stuff like that. He would say that he was going off for a wank over some porno mags. Eventually, he asked if I wanted to have a look. I did, separately. A month or so later, we agreed it would make us feel less "guilty" by both wanking over the magazine together. The first time we did this it felt electric, though we were both nervous and shy and kept the lights low. We enjoyed laughing (in a nice bonding way) and wanking. Looking at each other's cocks but not touching. After that he was really horny and whenever he wanted a wank, would whip it out openly even in the lounge. It felt good to see him jerking off. I was suprised as my 5.5" (but 5 " thick with big head) cock was larger than his. That made me feel good. He said I had the biggest head he'd seen. Of course, it is TINY compared to most guys here.
When we didn't have pornos, I'd described videos I'd seen and he'd ask a lot about how big the guy was, but also the women's bodies and what happened. In my mind, I often thought of the man in those straight pornos anyway. After some 2-3 months of wanking in front of each other, he asked if he could wank me off if I did him. So, by then we were at ease with each other and it felt the natural thing to do. Still I was nervous. As friends, we always said it was natural and not gay, we fancied women (I think that was mostly true for both of us at the time). It felt amazing to wank another guy off and see him, or hold two cocks - one in each hand. I know he enjoyed it, as I did. He always hung on to my cock even when I came, which I didn't always do for him.
This carried on for 2 years, on and off, since he had many girlfriends and was very sexual. Unfortunately, I had none. In then end, he would only come back to me for a wank when he didn't have a girlfriend. We never mentioned it to anyone else, and never went further than stroking. Now, I always wish I had done more, such as caressing his body or offering to suck him, but never did. But the feeling of bonding and togetherness was good for our friendship, especially at first. But after a while we grew apart and would only really talk just to lie down and wank together, so eventually it died down.
Just thought I would share. I've never experienced that with anyone else, and the thoughts of it, really make me feel good.
Before my first proper experience (see "sex with a large penis" forum), my best mate and I used to wank together. It started when we were 18 with watching a video and him masturbating alone in the bathroom. Then, some 4 months later when we shared a flat it got onto discussing how often we wanked, over what and stuff like that. He would say that he was going off for a wank over some porno mags. Eventually, he asked if I wanted to have a look. I did, separately. A month or so later, we agreed it would make us feel less "guilty" by both wanking over the magazine together. The first time we did this it felt electric, though we were both nervous and shy and kept the lights low. We enjoyed laughing (in a nice bonding way) and wanking. Looking at each other's cocks but not touching. After that he was really horny and whenever he wanted a wank, would whip it out openly even in the lounge. It felt good to see him jerking off. I was suprised as my 5.5" (but 5 " thick with big head) cock was larger than his. That made me feel good. He said I had the biggest head he'd seen. Of course, it is TINY compared to most guys here.
When we didn't have pornos, I'd described videos I'd seen and he'd ask a lot about how big the guy was, but also the women's bodies and what happened. In my mind, I often thought of the man in those straight pornos anyway. After some 2-3 months of wanking in front of each other, he asked if he could wank me off if I did him. So, by then we were at ease with each other and it felt the natural thing to do. Still I was nervous. As friends, we always said it was natural and not gay, we fancied women (I think that was mostly true for both of us at the time). It felt amazing to wank another guy off and see him, or hold two cocks - one in each hand. I know he enjoyed it, as I did. He always hung on to my cock even when I came, which I didn't always do for him.
This carried on for 2 years, on and off, since he had many girlfriends and was very sexual. Unfortunately, I had none. In then end, he would only come back to me for a wank when he didn't have a girlfriend. We never mentioned it to anyone else, and never went further than stroking. Now, I always wish I had done more, such as caressing his body or offering to suck him, but never did. But the feeling of bonding and togetherness was good for our friendship, especially at first. But after a while we grew apart and would only really talk just to lie down and wank together, so eventually it died down.
Just thought I would share. I've never experienced that with anyone else, and the thoughts of it, really make me feel good.
- luix,
Couldn´t agree more with Joe2xxx and Prepstudinsc.
This "expressing feelings sutff" is one of the many things that make "latinos" different from other cultures. Here in Argentina, where the Spanish and Italian influence is so strong due to immigration in early 1900´s, we are not so concerned about being labeled gay for hugging or even kissing in the chick to other guy.
That´s a common way to greet people you care (family and close friends), either they are men or women. Moreover, whenever someone introduces a girl/woman in a non-business situation, a kiss in the chick is the most common way to do.
It is great to be able to show a person how much you appreciate/love/care for him or her without checking who is around or fearing "what will they say/think".
Comming back to the topic if this thread, I agree with some others, jacking off with a friend is a way to share or bond with him: if you feel that what you are doing with your friend is not bad, so it is not, as long as both enjoy the experience and are mature enough to understand what you´re doing.
LuiS
This "expressing feelings sutff" is one of the many things that make "latinos" different from other cultures. Here in Argentina, where the Spanish and Italian influence is so strong due to immigration in early 1900´s, we are not so concerned about being labeled gay for hugging or even kissing in the chick to other guy.
That´s a common way to greet people you care (family and close friends), either they are men or women. Moreover, whenever someone introduces a girl/woman in a non-business situation, a kiss in the chick is the most common way to do.
It is great to be able to show a person how much you appreciate/love/care for him or her without checking who is around or fearing "what will they say/think".
Comming back to the topic if this thread, I agree with some others, jacking off with a friend is a way to share or bond with him: if you feel that what you are doing with your friend is not bad, so it is not, as long as both enjoy the experience and are mature enough to understand what you´re doing.
LuiS
Good luck, Dee, but one warning ... from personal experience and observation, there are two sure-fire ways of fucking up a good friendship: date that friend or live with said friend. I hope things turn out better in your case.
BRMSTN69: i'm sorry Luix, it may me ignorance on my part but, I've always heard that Latinos live in a very homophobic culture
<!--QuoteBegin-Tender@Jul 1 2004, 02:39 PM
I do not 'go by' what anyone tells me in my life, I 'go by' what *I* decide MYSELF if right[/quote]
Do you not see a contradiction in those two statements?
madame_zora
Sexy Member
Well Tender, I do agree with several things you said. The board is open to anyone's viewpoint, not just the ones who agree. I have been in and around Christianity for most of my life and do consider myself to be a Christian, although I am one of those people who interprets the Bible in my own way, don't worry, I won't bore you all with my views on what and why! I have just personally found it impossible for me to accept it literally, although I realise most Christians do. From that standpoint, I can understand and appreciate your stance, even though it is not mine. I do think we all contribute to the greater good of the group.
I also agree that all forms of sex are sex, even tho my hero and pal Bill Clinton said otherwise!! (an attempt at levity there!
And last, I respect you for making your own choices in your life, I only hope that you allow others this opportunity as well, and I believe you do.
My fear is, that in this forum there are a lot of "seekers" of information and liberal discussion that is much needed and nearly absent in our culture and society. Much of the reason for this is the religious right wing that does see things more in terms of "black and white". If one doesn't happen to fall into these pidgeonholes easily, then they/we are left with no where to go. This board has helped me tremenedously in the few short months I've been on here, and I would hate to think others might not get the support they need because of the appearance that it is not about open communication.
Lastly, MY VIEW is that "sin is sin". ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. All of us. Jealosy is not less than adultery, which is not worse than lying, which is the same as greed. Not a single one of us is perfect, or anything close. We are all on a path to becomming more beatiful, well honed versions of ourselves and we will take many different paths to get there. I would hope that one who has told us she conceived her first child out of wedlock would not be so eager to cast stones at what she considers another's "sin". We are all sinners equally, as well as growers, lovers, friends to each other, children of God (who IS perfect and sees inside our souls). I had this conversation with my mother once when she was quoting scripture to me. I wanter HER opinion, I can read all by myself! I wanted to know what was in HER brilliant mind, as I was being deprived of it by having the Bible quoted strictly. My mother was the most intelligent, warm hearted person I ever met, but when she was newly "saved" she went through a phase where she seemed to lose the ability to dig inside herself to speak to me and gave a lot of canned "Christian approved" responses to my questions. I already knew what the moral majority would say, I needed the insights that would be uniquely hers. I guess I would like the same from you, Tender. If if is true that your personal opinions are exactly the same, then I may have just wasted my time typing, but I would guess that you do have thoughts that are just your own as well.
I love and appreciate all of you, thanks for opening up the topic.
I also agree that all forms of sex are sex, even tho my hero and pal Bill Clinton said otherwise!! (an attempt at levity there!
And last, I respect you for making your own choices in your life, I only hope that you allow others this opportunity as well, and I believe you do.
My fear is, that in this forum there are a lot of "seekers" of information and liberal discussion that is much needed and nearly absent in our culture and society. Much of the reason for this is the religious right wing that does see things more in terms of "black and white". If one doesn't happen to fall into these pidgeonholes easily, then they/we are left with no where to go. This board has helped me tremenedously in the few short months I've been on here, and I would hate to think others might not get the support they need because of the appearance that it is not about open communication.
Lastly, MY VIEW is that "sin is sin". ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. All of us. Jealosy is not less than adultery, which is not worse than lying, which is the same as greed. Not a single one of us is perfect, or anything close. We are all on a path to becomming more beatiful, well honed versions of ourselves and we will take many different paths to get there. I would hope that one who has told us she conceived her first child out of wedlock would not be so eager to cast stones at what she considers another's "sin". We are all sinners equally, as well as growers, lovers, friends to each other, children of God (who IS perfect and sees inside our souls). I had this conversation with my mother once when she was quoting scripture to me. I wanter HER opinion, I can read all by myself! I wanted to know what was in HER brilliant mind, as I was being deprived of it by having the Bible quoted strictly. My mother was the most intelligent, warm hearted person I ever met, but when she was newly "saved" she went through a phase where she seemed to lose the ability to dig inside herself to speak to me and gave a lot of canned "Christian approved" responses to my questions. I already knew what the moral majority would say, I needed the insights that would be uniquely hers. I guess I would like the same from you, Tender. If if is true that your personal opinions are exactly the same, then I may have just wasted my time typing, but I would guess that you do have thoughts that are just your own as well.
I love and appreciate all of you, thanks for opening up the topic.
LoveGirl: *OFF TOPIC* Bill Clinton was the best president we've had in a long time. There was a 3-4 trillion dollar deficit when he came into office and by the end of his terms it was a 6 trillion dollar surplus. During Bush's term it has gone to a 6 trillion deficit.
Yes, he made a marital mistake but that shouldn't have been dealt with by the american people, it should have been dealt with by his wife. It was a private matter between Bill and Hillary.
*Back on topic* I agree with some of what you said Tender, but not all of it. I believe that only the person can decide what is right for them, unless they are not mature people, and many people are not.
Yes, he made a marital mistake but that shouldn't have been dealt with by the american people, it should have been dealt with by his wife. It was a private matter between Bill and Hillary.
*Back on topic* I agree with some of what you said Tender, but not all of it. I believe that only the person can decide what is right for them, unless they are not mature people, and many people are not.
Tender, unless you can read first century Hellenistic Greek, you really don't know what it says, only what your English translation says. Translations of the Bible are certainly coloured by the point of view of the translator, even if unconsciously. In the Authorized Version of the New Testament, the word homosexual occurs twice. Guess what: there is no such word in the original Greek writings of Paul because Hellenistic Greek did not contain such a all-encompassing term. There are words for specific homosexual acts, but St. Paul never wrote any of those words in his epistles. So while you are free to interpret your preferred translation of the Scriptures according to how you see fit, your own view does not carry any more weight than that of any other lay person. (By the way, yes ... my New Testament Greek is pretty good. It is, in fact, better than my ecclestiastical Latin.)
joe22xxx:
i gave him my opinion he can take it for what he thinks.
i dont have to take part in something i feel is wrong to know it is wrong.
i feel getting drunk every weekend and shooting up with drugs is wrong, and I decided that without ever having done it.
just because the law says something is OK doesnt make it LEGAL for ME to do.
i feel abortion is killing an unborn baby, but the law says thats no big deal.
if every woman on the face of this earth had a female/female sexual 'experience', and said how wonderful and bonding it was for them, it would still be wrong for me and i understand it to be wrong period. Everyone is responsible for their own choices, i dont control that.
If this isnt a judgement group, then Im having a pretty hard time understanding why you are jumping down my throat?
to whoever said that i must be living in the Levitical realm, I do not believe the Bible is 'out of time'. Does that mean i follow all of the ceremonial laws? no, because Im not Jewish. Im a Christian. I understand the new testament to have made it very clear that sexual immorality is not morally acceptable. That includes homosexual behavior, as well as premarital sex, and yes to me JO, oral, fingering ect whatever you want to call it-- is all a form of sex. That in MY understanding was intended by God to be saved for marriage. Others disagree with that and interpret scripture to mean whatever they like. that is of no responsibility of mine.
now, no where here have i said that doing that is easy. or that it doesnt go against natural feelings. when im mad at my husband, i sometimes have the natural feeling or instinct to protect myself ie my pride, and perhaps id like to haul off and clobber him. but, i use good judgement and restrain myself from doing what i *feel* like doing, because i *know* that is wrong to do. Just because something feels ok, doesnt mean it is--I think thats where your 'using our minds' comment comes in.......
there are plenty of ways to bond, form a trust or relationship with someone without being involved sexually.
My seeing things with blinders on, is an opinion. I do not 'go by' what anyone tells me in my life, I 'go by' what *I* decide MYSELF if right. It's called what Madame Zora said 'being your own man'.
I understand full well that many things in life are not black and white. but, i will say that being involved sexually with someone of the same sex is pretty CLEAR> it is not exaclty straight activity, no? I suppose that is left open to interpretation of what constitutes 'straight'. To me its NOT. Gray areas i found out are areas of caution. Its gray for a reason. Because there is no clear line. everyone has their own gray area. Gray areas may give us the opportunity to show love to someone or help others, but it does not give me excuse to condone behavior I feel is morally wrong.
I dont believe that JO with anyone is a way to confirm their sexual orientation. As i said, I feel sorry for anyone who has to engage in it or many other things, in order to know WHO or WHERE they are in themselves. That seems like insecurity to me. I know my orientation without having to 'find it' or prove myself -to myself or anyone else. I fail to see how JO with another man 'thrusts' them into heterosexual orientation being its homosexual behavior? People tend to conform to whatever they are exposed to. Its called influence or pressure. The more a person is influenced to follow a particular behavior or teaching, the more likely they will be to do it. What you described here is the opposite.
As far as the original poster, I simply was telling him, that hey, even if EVERY poster on this board, said that was the best experience of their lives, doesnt mean its right for you. Nothing wrong with asking other peoples opinions on things, but ultimately one has to choose for himself what he will do with his gray area.
Tender [/b][/quote]
This is the really classic disagreement between some Christians,who have a very black and white view of morality, and others who don't really respect that view. Some Christian folks think that God ordains all things, including morality, in a very concise way, found in the Bible.
Then there are those of us who may agree with some Christian morality,but not all of it. I've learned the hard way that morality, especially Judeo-Christian sexual morality, can be very de-humanizing. It condemns natural human behavior,makes us feel shitty about our sexual desires and our bodies, and is generally fearful of anything that is intimate or sensual. To call our deepest desires and needs sinful...well, that's the biggest shame of all. Just my 2 cents.
He didnt ask for only those with a particular opinion to respond lol.
i gave him my opinion he can take it for what he thinks.
i dont have to take part in something i feel is wrong to know it is wrong.
i feel getting drunk every weekend and shooting up with drugs is wrong, and I decided that without ever having done it.
just because the law says something is OK doesnt make it LEGAL for ME to do.
i feel abortion is killing an unborn baby, but the law says thats no big deal.
if every woman on the face of this earth had a female/female sexual 'experience', and said how wonderful and bonding it was for them, it would still be wrong for me and i understand it to be wrong period. Everyone is responsible for their own choices, i dont control that.
If this isnt a judgement group, then Im having a pretty hard time understanding why you are jumping down my throat?
to whoever said that i must be living in the Levitical realm, I do not believe the Bible is 'out of time'. Does that mean i follow all of the ceremonial laws? no, because Im not Jewish. Im a Christian. I understand the new testament to have made it very clear that sexual immorality is not morally acceptable. That includes homosexual behavior, as well as premarital sex, and yes to me JO, oral, fingering ect whatever you want to call it-- is all a form of sex. That in MY understanding was intended by God to be saved for marriage. Others disagree with that and interpret scripture to mean whatever they like. that is of no responsibility of mine.
now, no where here have i said that doing that is easy. or that it doesnt go against natural feelings. when im mad at my husband, i sometimes have the natural feeling or instinct to protect myself ie my pride, and perhaps id like to haul off and clobber him. but, i use good judgement and restrain myself from doing what i *feel* like doing, because i *know* that is wrong to do. Just because something feels ok, doesnt mean it is--I think thats where your 'using our minds' comment comes in.......
there are plenty of ways to bond, form a trust or relationship with someone without being involved sexually.
My seeing things with blinders on, is an opinion. I do not 'go by' what anyone tells me in my life, I 'go by' what *I* decide MYSELF if right. It's called what Madame Zora said 'being your own man'.
I understand full well that many things in life are not black and white. but, i will say that being involved sexually with someone of the same sex is pretty CLEAR> it is not exaclty straight activity, no? I suppose that is left open to interpretation of what constitutes 'straight'. To me its NOT. Gray areas i found out are areas of caution. Its gray for a reason. Because there is no clear line. everyone has their own gray area. Gray areas may give us the opportunity to show love to someone or help others, but it does not give me excuse to condone behavior I feel is morally wrong.
I dont believe that JO with anyone is a way to confirm their sexual orientation.
As i said, I feel sorry for anyone who has to engage in it or many other things, in order to know WHO or WHERE they are in themselves. That seems like insecurity to me. I know my orientation without having to 'find it' or prove myself -to myself or anyone else. I fail to see how JO with another man 'thrusts' them into heterosexual orientation being its homosexual behavior? People tend to conform to whatever they are exposed to. Its called influence or pressure. The more a person is influenced to follow a particular behavior or teaching, the more likely they will be to do it. What you described here is the opposite.As far as the original poster, I simply was telling him, that hey, even if EVERY poster on this board, said that was the best experience of their lives, doesnt mean its right for you. Nothing wrong with asking other peoples opinions on things, but ultimately one has to choose for himself what he will do with his gray area.
Tender [/b][/quote]
This is the really classic disagreement between some Christians,who have a very black and white view of morality, and others who don't really respect that view. Some Christian folks think that God ordains all things, including morality, in a very concise way, found in the Bible.
Then there are those of us who may agree with some Christian morality,but not all of it. I've learned the hard way that morality, especially Judeo-Christian sexual morality, can be very de-humanizing. It condemns natural human behavior,makes us feel shitty about our sexual desires and our bodies, and is generally fearful of anything that is intimate or sensual. To call our deepest desires and needs sinful...well, that's the biggest shame of all. Just my 2 cents.
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This is the really classic disagreement between some Christians,who have a very black and white view of morality, and others who don't really respect that view. Some Christian folks think that God ordains all things, including morality, in a very concise way, found in the Bible.
Then there are those of us who may agree with some Christian morality,but not all of it. I've learned the hard way that morality, especially Judeo-Christian sexual morality, can be very de-humanizing. It condemns natural human behavior,makes us feel shitty about our sexual desires and our bodies, and is generally fearful of anything that is intimate or sensual. To call our deepest desires and needs sinful...well, that's the biggest shame of all. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]
Even more than Judeo-Christian morality, it's Victorian morality. We who live in the USA, England and Canada have been subjected to this Puritanical mindset that has screwed us up even more than the Bible-thumpers have. I come from an evangelical, fundamentalist (Baptist and Pentecostal) church background, so I can speak from experience. I do believe that the Bible has rules set out for a reason, HOWEVER, we have twisted and turned them for our own wants and desires to be made "ok" and for someone elses to be made "wrong." If something doesn't jive with what we understand, it's automatically, a sin. Well, the one thing that Jesus came to do was to show LOVE, which was a new concept compared to the God of the Old Testament, which was all about fear and wrath. Sort of what the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and James Kennedy like to preach about. Sure, Jesus made his followers walk a fine line, bug, he did it with compassion. Remember the story about the woman at the well? Instead of being ugly to her, he chose to show mercy and forgave her sin. Mary Magdalene was one of his closest followers and we know about her past. These are people that in the modern evangelical church would be condemned because they are "sinners." Sin is sin is sin. Lying is no worse than greed and that's no worse than a sexual sin like adultery. In God's eyes it's all sin. Humans put ranking on sin--and the juicy ones get top ranking. IF it goes against our Puritanical morals, it's got to be a really bad sin. So jacking off with a buddy or having sex outside of marriage or, heaven forbid, homosexuality--because it's sex outside of marriage--those must really be bad. Those are nothing worse than me getting mad at the guy who cut me off changing lanes and me saying a bad word. IT's all bad. The Bible says that we've all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We all have to ask for forgiveness for our sins. In Liturgical churches, there is a confession of sins that is part of the service. In some non-Liturgical churches, they do the same thing. It's done for a reason....because we're all sinners and need to be cleansed. No matter what we do we're going to sin. That's just a part of being human. We try to do good, but we're not perfect. I've gotten way off track here, and didn't mean to start preaching, but my whole point is to say that I'm a Christian and I chose to see God and Jesus in a positive way, looking at the love and compassion rather than condemnation. I think that Tender is very closed minded and her type give Christians a bad name.
lacsap1
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Maybe because I'm a foreigner, from the liberal Netherlands where religion is something privat, never used in lawmaking or public and most important not holding people back in there search in life. I never can understand that in Anglican countries esspecially the US, people can feel so strong and unworldy against other people all in the holy name of calling them self good Christians ?
Why is it that we in the Netherlands think that in the US religion esspecially strong Christians movements are refine highly conservative narrowminded indoctrinated views of people wanted to display that they are the only one who have the truth in there hands?
I don't understand Tender, why do you even want to be a poster on this filthy, sexual immoral LPSG site? I hope not to make me a "believer" because the more I read your Victorian Christians morality, the more I'm a comfortable liberal atheist.
Save the world and start with yourself, lightup !!
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This is why, as a Christian, I get so riled up, by my fellow evangelicals. They can be so stupid sometimes. In their small minded thinking, trying to be morally righteous, they turn off those tho whom they are trying to preach, thus negating their whole witness. If my fellow believers would stop and THINK before they opened their mouths and see that being negative doesn't win over converts, they'd be able to gather more into the flock. I'm not here to proseletyze, mind you, but I'm just stating the fact that Lacsap is an Atheist and how Tender acted just further turned him against Christianity. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. (John 3: 17) Seems to me that speaks against condemnation right there.
What started as an innocent question about two dudes jacking off together has brought about some interesting dialogue, however. I still say that two guys jacking together can be an intense bonding experience. Males need to have intimate friendships--why have there been such interest in things like Promise Keepers and men's retreats and men's golf weekends and stuff like that. It doesn't have to be Christian, it can be a group of college friends getting together for a "boys" weekend to re-establish their friendships. Men need their time together as much as women do, but we've been taught that it's not right for us to express our feelings, that's why we need alcohol to loosen us up. Girls only need a mall and some charge cards. LOL Anyway, I still maintain that it's cool for a couple of buds to get close to each other and if it involves getting off together, it's cool and it's not immoral. If you and your friend are cool with it, go with the flow.
