joe22xxx:
Originally posted by Tender+Jul 1 2004, 01:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tender @ Jul 1 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-prepstudinsc@Jun 29 2004, 12:18 PM
I'm trying to figure out why Tender is comdemning this topic as wrong when it's something that is out of her realm of knowledge or experience. Being a female, she can't understand what goes through the male mind, just like we don't understand the female mind. For her to say that she thinks it's wrong is way out of line when it is something that she will never take part in.
The first part of her post is good, but I think that she crossed the line with the second part of her post when she says, "to me it is wrong. But, having others condone it or say how 'right' it is for them, doesnt give any justification to someone else to engage in it." This is a support group, not a judgement group.
is that Tender tends to see things with blinders on. She goes on what she has been told her whole life and if it doesn't correspond with what she agrees with, it's wrong. When it's wrong it's condemned. Everything is black and white in her world, and sorry to say, life isn't always that easy. In some things there are moral absolutes (murder is wrong, child molestation is wrong, etc.), but there are some gray areas, and those gray areas are when we need to use our minds to think out the "what ifs" of our actions. Those gray areas also give us a chance to show compassion to others and show love and respect to others. Blatantly saying something like jacking off with another man is wrong just shows ignorance. If that is a way that a person confirms his HETEROsexuality, why is it wrong? It's obvious that Tender only approves of heterosexuality, so why would she condemn something that would thrust someone into the path that she thinks is the only acceptable way?
He didnt ask for only those with a particular opinion to respond lol.
i gave him my opinion he can take it for what he thinks.
i dont have to take part in something i feel is wrong to know it is wrong.
i feel getting drunk every weekend and shooting up with drugs is wrong, and I decided that without ever having done it.
just because the law says something is OK doesnt make it LEGAL for ME to do.
i feel abortion is killing an unborn baby, but the law says thats no big deal.
if every woman on the face of this earth had a female/female sexual 'experience', and said how wonderful and bonding it was for them, it would still be wrong for me and i understand it to be wrong period. Everyone is responsible for their own choices, i dont control that.
If this isnt a judgement group, then Im having a pretty hard time understanding why you are jumping down my throat?
to whoever said that i must be living in the Levitical realm, I do not believe the Bible is 'out of time'. Does that mean i follow all of the ceremonial laws? no, because Im not Jewish. Im a Christian. I understand the new testament to have made it very clear that sexual immorality is not morally acceptable. That includes homosexual behavior, as well as premarital sex, and yes to me JO, oral, fingering ect whatever you want to call it-- is all a form of sex. That in MY understanding was intended by God to be saved for marriage. Others disagree with that and interpret scripture to mean whatever they like. that is of no responsibility of mine.
now, no where here have i said that doing that is easy. or that it doesnt go against natural feelings. when im mad at my husband, i sometimes have the natural feeling or instinct to protect myself ie my pride, and perhaps id like to haul off and clobber him. but, i use good judgement and restrain myself from doing what i *feel* like doing, because i *know* that is wrong to do. Just because something feels ok, doesnt mean it is--I think thats where your 'using our minds' comment comes in.......
there are plenty of ways to bond, form a trust or relationship with someone without being involved sexually.
My seeing things with blinders on, is an opinion. I do not 'go by' what anyone tells me in my life, I 'go by' what *I* decide MYSELF if right. It's called what Madame Zora said 'being your own man'.
I understand full well that many things in life are not black and white. but, i will say that being involved sexually with someone of the same sex is pretty CLEAR> it is not exaclty straight activity, no? I suppose that is left open to interpretation of what constitutes 'straight'. To me its NOT. Gray areas i found out are areas of caution. Its gray for a reason. Because there is no clear line. everyone has their own gray area. Gray areas may give us the opportunity to show love to someone or help others, but it does not give me excuse to condone behavior I feel is morally wrong.
I dont believe that JO with anyone is a way to confirm their sexual orientation.
As i said, I feel sorry for anyone who has to engage in it or many other things, in order to know WHO or WHERE they are in themselves. That seems like insecurity to me. I know my orientation without having to 'find it' or prove myself -to myself or anyone else. I fail to see how JO with another man 'thrusts' them into heterosexual orientation being its homosexual behavior? People tend to conform to whatever they are exposed to. Its called influence or pressure. The more a person is influenced to follow a particular behavior or teaching, the more likely they will be to do it. What you described here is the opposite.
As far as the original poster, I simply was telling him, that hey, even if EVERY poster on this board, said that was the best experience of their lives, doesnt mean its right for you. Nothing wrong with asking other peoples opinions on things, but ultimately one has to choose for himself what he will do with his gray area.
Tender [/b][/quote]
This is the really classic disagreement between some Christians,who have a very black and white view of morality, and others who don't really respect that view. Some Christian folks think that God ordains all things, including morality, in a very concise way, found in the Bible.
Then there are those of us who may agree with some Christian morality,but not all of it. I've learned the hard way that morality, especially Judeo-Christian sexual morality, can be very de-humanizing. It condemns natural human behavior,makes us feel shitty about our sexual desires and our bodies, and is generally fearful of anything that is intimate or sensual. To call our deepest desires and needs sinful...well, that's the biggest shame of all. Just my 2 cents.