Living in the Suburbs

[SpeedoGuy]

The Pearl District in downtown is an excellent example of how quality of life can improve without following the suburban sprawl model.

The Pearl's great and every time I walk around down there I'm tempted to move there. But what I could sell my home in the 'burbs for would buy me about 1/3 the living space in a Pearl condo with no garage or garden. That's the rub. :frown1:

 

[earllogjam]

The Pearl's great and every time I walk around down there I'm tempted to move there. But what I could sell my home in the 'burbs for would buy me about 1/3 the living space in a Pearl condo with no garage or garden. That's the rub. :frown1:

Wow, housing prices there have been California-ized there I see.

What about charging for that morning outdoor shower show to help pay the mortgage? :wink:

I have friends who moved to Hood River. I wonder if it is still affordable. That is a nice small town with good planning and little sprawl. Lots of transplants up there. Good kiteboarding.

 

[Nrets]

Osiris, Brentwood is one of the nicest suburbs out here if you can afford it. I was there yesterday. Everyone is a happy smiling ball of botox and platinum credit cards. In all seriousness, it is nice. Tree lined boulevards, Houses that have aged gracefully. Proximity to Santa Monica.

I live in a suburb to the North of LA. Simi Valley has been known as the home of extremist groups, the Ronald Reagan Library and a high consumption of methamphetamines.

Just say no to drugs, right?

Simi has some beautiful physical scenery and some small town charm from when it existed as a train depot long ago. But the emptiness of suburbia combined with an actual seperation from the rest of the world, a mountain range that separates us from LA, there are some very unusual social developments, such as a flourishing neo nazi movement along with yuppies in Hummers, white kids who talk black while driving lowered Lexi (plural for lexuses?), and illegal immigrants in battered Toyota pick up trucks.

What sticks out to me in this thread is Earls assertion that suburban life is connected with drug use.

I believe that is a big part of a huge problem.

People 18 years old spend Saturday Night washing down Vicodins with vodka.
Kids take methodone and then raid their parents medicine cabinents for other pills. The mindset is to get as fucked up as possible, cause that seems to be the only interesting option in a culture of strip malls and corporate everything.

We did grow up hanging out in parking lots and supermarkets.
Reagan Youth here.

Smoking pot is expected. As for pills. Well pot gets boring after a while. Gotta take something else to have fun while smoking pot. Need some valium to accentuate the high. Time to get 'domed.

This type of reckless behavior seems more prevalent amongst youth in the suburbs.

I am going off a hunch, but if anyone wants to take a look at some statistics, I am willing to bet that the amount of drug overdoses in people 15-25 is markedly higher in the suburbs than in the cities.

 

[bigcurious]

Do you live in the suburbs, live in a track home, shop at Walmart or Costco and the big box strip mall, drive everywhere, grocery shop at the mega supermarket and your idea of a night out on the town is driving to the Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Applebee's? Is the closest Seven11 three miles away?

I'd say 80% of Americans have this lifestyle - I grew up in one as many many kids do.

Is it the ideal environment to live in? Why did you choose to live there?

It is my feeling that they are tragic environments that do not foster community nor connection to others. They are auto dependent places that do not promote health or the human body and segregate us into certain class and population segments. They are environments designed to look nice while driving but in reality are devoid of life or opportunities for human interaction.

you've pretty much figured it out for yourself. The suburbs were invented by white women to isolate themselves and their families from their own control.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

What about charging for that morning outdoor shower show to help pay the mortgage? :wink:

Curious you should mention that.

I was doing an evening outdoor shower just last week when my ablutions were interrupted by laughter from up in the air.

Up in the air?

Yes. There I was with soap in my hair and the garden hose in my hand looking up for the source of the laughter. Sure enough, two county radio technicians were climbing a tall tower adjacent to my home to repair a faulty antenna. They could see me standing there in the buff. No speedo. No towell. In the buff.

Blush.

I have friends who moved to Hood River. I wonder if it is still affordable. That is a nice small town with good planning and little sprawl. Lots of transplants up there. Good kiteboarding.

The word is that Hood River's gradually becoming gentrified a la Bend, Tahoe, Vail, Flagstaff, Santa Fe, Jackson Hole, Santa Cruz, etc. Its a picturesque place.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The mindset is to get as fucked up as possible, cause that seems to be the only interesting option in a culture of strip malls and corporate everything.

Fucked up with drugs and fucked as well.

Let me assert there are two known swinger couples on my suburban block alone. I should know, I've been invited to participate by both.

 

[whatireallywant]

I live sort of in the suburbs, although I live in an apartment complex.

I'm saddened by the way all the housing subdivisions, and all the strip malls, etc. look exactly the same from city to city. Same stores, same restaurants, etc... everywhere you go.

One of the things I really liked about downtown Bloomington, IN was that most of the businesses were locally owned, and there were many ethnic restaurants and other interesting shops in the area (One poster here mentioned the new age store Athena in Bloomington - interestingly, I was asked to be, and considered being, part owner of that store!). When I lost my job in Indianapolis, I had actually hoped to get a job either for the city or county in Bloomington, because both the county courthouse and city hall are downtown near all the ethnic restaurants, locally owned shops, etc. I would've lived downtown, walked to work, walked to go out to eat, walked to many of the shops, etc. I would've only used my car occasionally.

Now, I would love to find a place like Bloomington, but with the weather more similar to San Antonio or Austin (I'm now terribly spoiled by the mild winters here!)

 

[deleted3782]

Interesting little fact, the cul de sacs and curving roads typically found in suburban sprawl neighborhoods is a result of an architect's (forget the name, sorry) desire to recreate the feeling of driving on a country road. He felt that the curves and the circles made driving slower and more scenic, as if you were in the country.

The first planned community in America designed in the Romantic Landscape movement of the ninetheenth century is Llewellyn Park, located within West Orange, NJ. It was designed by architect A. J. Davis and developer Llewellyn Haskell in 1857.

 

[EagleCowboy]

I live waaaaaaaay out in the sticks and prefer it!!
HATE Wal-Mart, don't have Costco, the nearest store is 5 miles, the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile. I live far enough out, there is no cable available, no high-speed internet, the phone lines are left over from party lines, and there is no signal for cell phones.

BUT there's clean, fresh air and semi-wide open spaces. (if it weren't for the dense pines) Much room for my horses, places to go skinny-dipping. I sometimes help my neighbors with a fence or fix their vehicles, or do some bulldozer/back hoe work for them, and they dump on me (whether or not I want it) only the finest fresh vegetables, eggs, milk (not the poisoned store-bought junk), and whatever else they grow or bake. So I'm never without good food.

I spent all my summers growing up in deep Houston and the school year in rural Oklahoma. The city has it's advantages, but I have yet to figure out what they are. *MUCH* too crowded for me. If I can throw a rock and hit my neighbor's house, it's too close. The cities have too much ozone which burns holes in your lungs, plus the smog isn't good for you either. I just can't see any benefits to living in the city. And since cities don't like horses inside the city limits, I say down with cities!! LOL

 

[2322]

"Track home," is a mondegreen. The correct term is, "tract home."

This subject is immensely difficult for people outside the US and Canada to grasp as their situation is nothing like ours. The endless housing estates of Surrey and the other home counties resemble what we have save that the space is just so much grander. Single family houses on 3-acre lots are the norm or, in older suburbs, a quarter acre. The mass transit in the US is abysmal just because the distances cost so much to span. We must rely on cars.

To get to mass transit I have to drive 2 miles on a road with two ditches on each side, no median, and no sidewalk. I couldn't walk to the bus station even if I wanted to because of the sheer danger of walking on the road. That bus will only take me to the City of New York, not anywhere else. If I want to travel within my county, or even downtown, I must drive. To get to the train, I must drive 13 miles over two twisty mountain roads and I only live within 50 miles of New York.

Understand this. New York is one of the few places in the entire United States where the mass transit is so good that one not need own a car but only if you actually live within the boroughs of New York. A few other old eastern cities like Boston can claim the same thing, but the rest of the country was designed after the rise of the automobile and the cities are designed entirely to accommodate automobiles, not pedestrians, horses, or anything else. Phoenix and Los Angeles are notorious examples of cities designed not only with automobiles in mind, but suburbs as well. Whole downtowns are devoted entirely to commercial or industrial zoning with the assumption that residences will be outside of the city.

I find the suburbs vapid as they practically beg kids to turn to drugs or other socially-unacceptable means of recreation. The society is grotesque in that it's nonexistant. Here in my town, an exurb of New York, people arise at 4:30 to get a bus to get them to their office by 9am. They leave their office at 5:00pm to arrive home by 8pm. These commuters are so exhausted they have no time for their kids nor their community.

If the futurists are correct then the suburbs will become the next ghettos of the post-industrial era. As cities increase in population the poor will be pushed out of the city center. This is already happening in New York. Manhattan is becoming increasingly gentrified to the point that Hell's Kitchen, the Lower East Side, and Harlem are respectable places to life. 20 years ago you'd never, ever, want to set foot in these places yet here it is. The poor who previously occupied this now prime real estate are being pushed to the outer boroughs. Urban population increases as the general standard of living falls because the highest wages are to be earned in the urban centers.

I know so many people who were actually born and raised in the city and loved it yet I hear many young couples state that they want their kids to have a yard and a dog and be far away from crime and drugs. It's ridiculous. There are as many drugs here as there are in the city and now the big gangs are arriving here as well. When I was growing-up this was a sleepy farm town with 1/8 the population that's here now so this is all a bit of a shock to me.

I would love to move to New York if I could but it's horrendously expensive. If I have kids (thank God I'm male) then I'd like to raise them in the city. The suburbs are dying in the US though they don't know it yet.

Clue: The very first gated community in the United States is right near where I live. It's Tuxedo Park, home of the semi-formal evening suit known as.... the tuxedo! Tuxedo is full of extraordinary Gilded Age houses on a scale unknown even today. One house has something over 300 rooms though the owners aren't sure! The village is its own incorporated village with a private school, and a real police force who can legally arrest you. No rent-a-cops here! The country club is one of the very few places in the United States where one can play court tennis or racquets. It's very old, very old money, and quite lovely. None of the houses look the same, none of the roads are marked, and the security is very tight. All other gated communities are mere parodies of Tuxedo Park.

Fuck suburbs. They're relics of a post-war Utopian vision of social engineering whose time has long since passed.

 

[simcha]

I have a feeling that the suburbs in the East and older cities like St. Louis and Chicago are quite nice places to live with retail shops nearby, gridded tree lined streets and access to mass transportation. They were built before WWII.

OK, this is true for the close suburbs of Chicago. I grew up in Hoffman Estates which is basically next to Schaumburg. Most of it was built after 1965 or so. There is no public transportation. There's nothing but strip malls. There's nothing to do for teens to do but hang out at the mall. Small kids might like to go to the forest preserves or small prairies that are about to be developed into cookie-cutter homes.

So, the close suburbs like Oak Park, Berwyn, Cicero, Evanston, Morton Grove, Skokie, and such have access to decent public transportation because they are older. But outside of the suburbs that border the City, the Chicago suburbs are like what you describe in So. Cal. There was no such thing as thoughtful planning when they built from 1965 onwards, so the roads don't connect, they aren't on grids, city trains don't go there, and bus lines are just a joke that run every 2 hours if you are lucky. Walking to the store is impossible.

So, I'm a suburbanite by upbringing. I didn't mind it because I knew nothing else as a kid. However as an adult, I do prefer to live in a city where I can walk to the grocery store, drug store, restaurants, bars, coffee shops, and movie theater, like I can in my own neighborhood here in Oakland. Sometimes on weekends I never move my car. It reminds me of the neighborhood I lived in in Chicago, just with a different culture...

 

[2322]

Yeah, old suburbs are one thing because mass transit systems were planned when those municipalities were known to be suburbs and need mass transit. More particularly, places like Evanston and Glencoe had residents who had enough influence to demand mass transit connections.

I'm glad you mentioned Chicago, you North Shore boy you, because Chicago is one of the few cities which has a really good system, particularly for the northern suburbs (ahem, where the money is).

When I come to SF you can show me how they do it in Oakland wink.

 

[Principessa]

Do you live in the suburbs, live in a track home, shop at Walmart or Costco and the big box strip mall, drive everywhere, grocery shop at the mega supermarket and your idea of a night out on the town is driving to the Olive Garden, Red Lobster or Applebee's? Is the closest Seven11 three miles away?

I'd say 80% of Americans have this lifestyle - I grew up in one as many many kids do. You cannot blame your bad childhood on the suburbs.

Is it the ideal environment to live in? Why did you choose to live there? Children don't get to choose where they live. :tongue: However if I had to do it all over again I would want to live exactly where we did. My childhood was idyllic.

It is my feeling that they are tragic environments that do not foster community nor connection to others. They are auto dependent places that do not promote health or the human body and segregate us into certain class and population segments. They are environments designed to look nice while driving but in reality are devoid of life or opportunities for human interaction.

Oh Dear God. Where do you come up with this stuff? You couldn't be more wrong! :aargh4: I know I need to explain myself but it's 3:00 AM and I'm tired and in pain. I'll do it tomorrow.

I do not understand 'owning an apartment'. To me that's wasted money because you have no land. Sure the upper eastside has nice spaces but if I had the money to purchase something decent there, I still wouldn't want to live in Manhattan.

When I look out my window I need to see grass, rolling hills, mother nature at her best. As much as I hate being a 5 hr drive from the ocean I love that I sometimes have to shoo away a quail or a pheasant before I can back out of the driveway. :smile:

I live in the suburbs, and I prefer it here. The city is too busy for me (and where I'm at, living in the city is the equivalent of living in the ghetto for the most part).

I like when we agree. :smile: My experience with city living is much the same as yours. I am NOT a ghetto girl by any stretch of the imagination.

What everyone means to say is

tract homes...think of the song:

Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes on the hillside
Little boxes, all the same

I thought the word was tract; but was too lazy to google it.

I live in a gated community with security.

I am lucky in that every house is diffrent and they are on large blocks of land so we aren't living in each others back pockets. The other bonus is that it is 2 blocks from the beach, 3 mins drive from the marina and boat ramp. It's also minutes away from the best seafood, grocery markets and the wine merchants are only a short stagger away.

Sounds lovely! Wanna trade for a few weeks?

 

[simcha]

Yeah, old suburbs are one thing because mass transit systems were planned when those municipalities were known to be suburbs and need mass transit. More particularly, places like Evanston and Glencoe had residents who had enough influence to demand mass transit connections.

Yes, very true.

I'm glad you mentioned Chicago, you North Shore boy you, because Chicago is one of the few cities which has a really good system, particularly for the northern suburbs (ahem, where the money is).

Um, no...lol... I was raised in the Northwest Suburbs. It's a very different place from the North Shore. North Shore is more old money. Northwest Suburbs is new money. And there is a different class distinction to that, of course. And I grew up in a lower-middle class/ working poor neighborhood in Hoffman Estates. Our "village" liked to pretend that we didn't exist because most of the rest of the "village" was more "well to do."

When I come to SF you can show me how they do it in Oakland wink.

Do you promise? :tongue:

 

[2322]

The northewest?? The NORTHWEST????!!!!! Why the fuck am I even talking to you, you lowlife!!

Oh please. You're not where you were born, not your parents. You're you and, while I can guess what you do for a living, we're Americans. We invent ourselves and, my dearest Simcha, you're quite an invention.

I promised myself earlier I wouldn't quote this but I've had a little gin:

Sprawling on the fringes of the city
In geometric order
An insulated border
In between the bright lights
And the far unlit unknown

Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer or the misfit so alone

In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
(Subdivisions)
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out
Any escape might help to smooth the unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe the restless dreams of youth

Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night

Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights...​

That's it. What was true 25 years ago when those lyrics were written is just as true now. Suburbs are a living death of fulfilling the expectations of others.

 

[simcha]

The northewest?? The NORTHWEST????!!!!! Why the fuck am I even talking to you, you lowlife!!

LOL! Well, you're from New York, so I shouldn't even be talking to you. You know that we Chicagoans hate New Yorkers and we all know everything is better in Chicago. LOL![/quote]

Oh please. You're not where you were born, not your parents. You're you and, while I can guess what you do for a living, we're Americans. We invent ourselves and, my dearest Simcha, you're quite an invention.

Why thank you... I think I resemble that remark. :wink:

I promised myself earlier I wouldn't quote this but I've had a little gin:

...​

That's it. What was true 25 years ago when those lyrics were written is just as true now. Suburbs are a living death of fulfilling the expectations of others.

Well, your gin-soaked quote was lovely and so true. The suburbs would be nothing without "keeping up with the Joneses."

 

[2322]

Dude, we have GOT to get together. Please come to New York some time. Don't you have conventions or something??

 

[simcha]

Dude, we have GOT to get together. Please come to New York some time. Don't you have conventions or something??

LOL! Well, I don't have any conventions in New York that my agency would pay for....

But.... Oh Daddy Daddy, you could fly me out to you, Daddy Daddy, and then we could meet and play, Daddy Daddy. :tongue:

 

[2322]

LOL! Well, I don't have any conventions in New York that my agency would pay for....

But.... Oh Daddy Daddy, you could fly me out to you, Daddy Daddy, and then we could meet and play, Daddy Daddy. :tongue:

Uhhmmmm... right now I'm a boy. Fuck! I have to write that blog post and I keep putting it off. Right now I'm discovering surrender. Maybe later I'll be a daddy but not right now. I'm gainfully unemployed at the moment.

Still. I'd love to meet you...when I get to SF again someday.

 

[simcha]

Uhhmmmm... right now I'm a boy. Fuck! I have to write that blog post and I keep putting it off. Right now I'm discovering surrender. Maybe later I'll be a daddy but not right now.

Still. I'd love to meet you...when I get to SF again someday.

Well, you know.. I was just teasing you, silly. I'm not looking for a Daddy at all. I'm too old to be told what to do. Actually I was too old to be told what to do by the time I was 2 according to my family. :wink:

Yes, we should still meet. I never make it to New York. If you do make it back to the Bay Area, definitely let me know and I'll show you around. Maybe we could have other LPSGers on the welcoming committee. However, it seems that the LPSGers in the Bay Area aren't into meeting for anything these days.. :frown1: