Medical Morals and Ethics.

[august86]

Some of these people suffered from illnesses that were self-imposed death sentences while the vast majority suffered from the mere consequences handed down to us by whatever Creator you believe and became unwitting suffers of pain and agony.

I'm fairly religious, but I don't think my "creator" sits around choosing which ailments/disabilities to pass on to which person as though it's Santa's toy factory on Christmas Eve
Surely genetics and parental lifestyles and choices determine this.

I think the emotional response is that the patient with a history of abuse should get less consideration, but I don't think it's practical or ethical to either deny or inhibit their opportunity to be treated.

I agree that people shouldn't be denied, but if the choice came down to either giving the only available lungs to a chain-smoker, and giving it to someone with no history of such activity, that the latter should get it.

I understand that we feel the need to trivialise this by mentioning absurdities like: obese people, suicide attempters, etc, but if I were in the situation of having made the direct choice to harm my healthy organs (especially a lifetime of drinking and chain smoking), I would make peace with the fact that if there was only one of the type of organ I needed available, the person who didn't make the poor choices I did, should get it.
Unfortunately, having your cake doesn't always mean being able to eat it. (especially at the expense of another)

 

[umami_tsunami]

I wholeheartedly agree you Umami tsunami that addictions are a very tenuous subject and issue. However, the discussion is relevant to “diseases” vs. addiction. To clarify “addictions” are also an overwhelming misguided choice of behavior vs. the unwitting contraction of a condition or illness that we have no choice but accept as part of our lives.

Is an addiction really a choice? I just don't think it's a yes or no question. It involves complex brain chemistry that research is trying to understand. For some it's as easy as "just say no", but for many it's just beyond their ability to control. Junkies and alcoholics die every day desperate to be free from addiction, but can't figure out how to do it.

Let's say there is a shit ton of evidence that eating meat, dairy, high fructose corn syrup and trans-fat all contribute to heart disease (there is). Then if someone ate these types of foods and developed heart disease, is that the "unwitting contraction of a condition or illness" or an "overwhelming misguided choice of behavior"?

 

[Sirramm]

The quantum state of the brain is a vast and most complex arena in which to do battles of right vs. wrong. An arena where victors are rarely, if ever, true hero’s considering the wake of destruction they leave behind – everything has a consequence. The choices we make to ‘intentionally’ harm ourselves with those vices, be those trans-fats, drugs or alcohol to name a few, we now know will do us harm IS still a choice at nauseam and yet that “choice” is what eventually becomes our demise. Does it make it right or wrong? Not sure, for each of you but considering the statistics, I have to say, the “choices” violate the better outcome. While the complex undeserved negative results of modalities makes us infinitely at risk we, at least here in the states, hope that those with knowledge take the steps to protect, care, and keep us safe.

I can honestly attest that there are avenues and resources, albeit limited, for those who want and need help…but they need to want that help! I cannot help those who do not want it, sense they need it, or feel they have better to live for. I will still give it my all but ultimately it is up to them. HOWEVER!!! I say it is absolutely incumbent upon each one of use to sense and feel when our friends, as friends and loved ones, to sense when those are slipping into that abyss and attempt to save them BEFORE they are GONE – when we can! Certainly when in the euphoric episode of time and space are we rarely if ever able to determine our demise is eminent but those beside us usually are and that is where we as a society MUST intervene and offer support and help.

So to answer your question, and sorry to lecture and take everyone to med school…but you all owe me about 120,000$ each for the last two courses!!!! LOL…but here in America being fat, obese and grossly out of shape is commonplace. WHY? I do not have a clue…I suggest it will come to fruition with in little time. Nevertheless, do you still have a “CHOICE”? YES!!! Absolutely! We are born with a few inalienable rights throughout this world and one of those fundamental rights is the right to CHOOSE. IF we know that there is a chance we could become addicted or hooked on something then why do we fall toward it? Not sure…but if you do just know there is someone like me standing by…tired…worn out…but holding your life as mine in my hands and I’ll be damned if I let you leave this world without giving you every opportunity, chance, option and most importantly FRIENDSHIP and NEVER LEAVE A FRIEND ON THE BATTLE FIELD…Greeks have a saying…”Carry your shield or come home on it”…I’ll bust my ass to make sure your carry it!!!!

 

[umami_tsunami]

The state of your brain is vast and complex, alright.

 

[Sirramm]

The state of your brain is vast and complex, alright.

I will take that as a compliment thank you very much!

BTW was just in Phili...too bad we did not have this discussion prior...would have been fun to banter over a beer or two.