Offensive cartoons
- Thread starter Shelby
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Of course, no one is suggesting that these freaked fucked up fanatics actually re-read the 5 Pillars of Islam, are they? Funny thing, and so ironic... the cartoons satirized EXACTLY what happened as a result of publishing the cartoons. The fanatics (conveniently) ignore those parts of their religion and scriptures that forbid them to be violent murderers, to throw a hissy fit and start killing people and destroying property. The cartoons portrayed Islamic extremists as violent terrorists; the fanatics get riled up about it and become violent terrorists. But as pointed out in an earlier post, THEY think it is OK to kill anyone who makes "blasphemous" comments about their religion, but they ALSO think it is just fine and dandy for them to do the very same about any other religion. Fucking coward hypocrites. All religions are the same, they just draw their god(s) with different crayons.
the reason it took months for a response is because, as someone is implying here, there are people intentionally trying to stir up a shitstorm. It's no big secret, either. The cartoons were published back in September in Denmark. Some Muslim clerics in Denmark got ahold of them a few months later, or decided to pay attention to them a few months later, added in some other cartoons they deemed offensive that were never actually published in Denmark, and then started making some noise about it. Word of this spread, and eventually the governments of Iran and Syria got invovled, as well as other political and clerical Muslim leaders around the world who thought that this would be another good reason to start burning things and killing people. From there... the whole angry rock-chucking flag-burning sect of Islam was only more than happy to take up the cause, having nothing else in particular to become enraged by that week.
and yes, those mid east countries sure do seem to have an amazingly diverse and well-stocked supply of foreign national flags. It is refreshing to see them burn something other than the ol' stars and bars... but I did stop and wonder why on earth anybody in Iran or Syria or Palestine would have extra Danish flags around. They must keep a supply of all western nation flags handy just in case they ever want to burn some of them.
and yes, those mid east countries sure do seem to have an amazingly diverse and well-stocked supply of foreign national flags. It is refreshing to see them burn something other than the ol' stars and bars... but I did stop and wonder why on earth anybody in Iran or Syria or Palestine would have extra Danish flags around. They must keep a supply of all western nation flags handy just in case they ever want to burn some of them.
Rizo
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- Rizo,
It's not an easy situation at all. For me it is clear somebody is obviously taking political gain out of it. Why else stir things up 6 months after the actual publications?
However, these people have the right to be offended (mind you, they do not have the right in my opinion to be voilent). In Europe we have seriously large communities of Muslims, who protested peacefully thank goodness.
In Holland the news arrived that the same Danish newspaper refused to print Christian cartoons because they might offend the Danish...like Pecker already pointed out, weird way of doing business. The thing is, that these newspapers are exploiting the freedom of speech. It is being used to merely offend, what other purpose does it serve? Simply saying that you 'have the right' to publish whatever you want doesnt cut it. You have to take into account what goals your trying to reach, and if you can think of none, but you can be damn sure people will be offended, why post them? This discussion is going on in my country, The Netherlands, and in all of Europe since we seem to be more and more the test-tube for this worlds social problems and solutions...but hell, we have been throughout history.
And then what about the ga-zillion newspapers who copied the cartoons, and even posted new ones? What goals do they serve? Think aout your fellow man folks, and think about how certain personal issues that you hold very dear, while others may not, might offend you as well when being mocked with.
However, these people have the right to be offended (mind you, they do not have the right in my opinion to be voilent). In Europe we have seriously large communities of Muslims, who protested peacefully thank goodness.
In Holland the news arrived that the same Danish newspaper refused to print Christian cartoons because they might offend the Danish...like Pecker already pointed out, weird way of doing business. The thing is, that these newspapers are exploiting the freedom of speech. It is being used to merely offend, what other purpose does it serve? Simply saying that you 'have the right' to publish whatever you want doesnt cut it. You have to take into account what goals your trying to reach, and if you can think of none, but you can be damn sure people will be offended, why post them? This discussion is going on in my country, The Netherlands, and in all of Europe since we seem to be more and more the test-tube for this worlds social problems and solutions...but hell, we have been throughout history.
And then what about the ga-zillion newspapers who copied the cartoons, and even posted new ones? What goals do they serve? Think aout your fellow man folks, and think about how certain personal issues that you hold very dear, while others may not, might offend you as well when being mocked with.
Tremaine
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But what is not mentioned very much, is that some of the muslim press have themselves published cartoons which are themselves offensive to Jews and Chrisians, but particularly Jews. Some people should look in their own camp as well before they cast the first stone.
Also what a great many need to keep in mind is that with rights comes responsibilities. But for me, I try very much to follow the ideas of Voltaire, who stated, I disagree ith what you say, but I will defend to the death you right to say it. Also of John Stuart Mill, If all mankind were of one opinion and only one were of the contrary opinion, then mankind would be no more justified in silencine the one, than the one, if he had the power would be justified in silencing mankind. (JSM - On Liberty)
Also what a great many need to keep in mind is that with rights comes responsibilities. But for me, I try very much to follow the ideas of Voltaire, who stated, I disagree ith what you say, but I will defend to the death you right to say it. Also of John Stuart Mill, If all mankind were of one opinion and only one were of the contrary opinion, then mankind would be no more justified in silencine the one, than the one, if he had the power would be justified in silencing mankind. (JSM - On Liberty)
jakeatolla
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Probably a bad subject to get into religion..
but... you have to remember...we live in two different worlds...
most of those bitching dont have tv, comedy shows, saturday night live, etc.
we make fun of everything including the prime minister, president of the us
and many of the religious nuts...and no one is burning or killing someone for it.
but these folks...have very little education and those that do were brained washed by the clerics... not religion..
most dont have jobs and the men have to go to pray "how many times a day"
and some bearded dude gets ups and says...this is wrong or bad and you do this...
;i am not downing anyone's FAITH... so lets go from there..
but you see all the dem in the streets all over the world..in these countries..
dont they have jobs to be working at...? no they dont..and they listen to these idiots like many of our folks here do to the "Moral marg" this is why many now believe that too many faiths are full of it... they dont go by the Bible or what ever you read or belive in... someone new sits up and says this is the way it is... my way.
if you were poor in one of these countries...and someone came along..sent you to their school, gave you food, clothes..what would you do... yeah..down with the other world...they hate us and we are going to get even..instead of training them to do a work profession..they recurit and make them their followers... do you remember back when Iran and Iraq were at war?
the Clerics sent young unarmed boys into combat and told them they would go to a new and wonderful world... didnt see the Clerics on the front line saying to men go... we express , make fun off or praise anyone in our society..but they dont follow or understand that... I personally saw nothing wrong with the cartoons... hell we have had those of other govt high wigs and even the pope...no one ran around killing and yelling down with you... sorry only my view:biggrin1:
but... you have to remember...we live in two different worlds...
most of those bitching dont have tv, comedy shows, saturday night live, etc.
we make fun of everything including the prime minister, president of the us
and many of the religious nuts...and no one is burning or killing someone for it.
but these folks...have very little education and those that do were brained washed by the clerics... not religion..
most dont have jobs and the men have to go to pray "how many times a day"
and some bearded dude gets ups and says...this is wrong or bad and you do this...
;i am not downing anyone's FAITH... so lets go from there..
but you see all the dem in the streets all over the world..in these countries..
dont they have jobs to be working at...? no they dont..and they listen to these idiots like many of our folks here do to the "Moral marg" this is why many now believe that too many faiths are full of it... they dont go by the Bible or what ever you read or belive in... someone new sits up and says this is the way it is... my way.
if you were poor in one of these countries...and someone came along..sent you to their school, gave you food, clothes..what would you do... yeah..down with the other world...they hate us and we are going to get even..instead of training them to do a work profession..they recurit and make them their followers... do you remember back when Iran and Iraq were at war?
the Clerics sent young unarmed boys into combat and told them they would go to a new and wonderful world... didnt see the Clerics on the front line saying to men go... we express , make fun off or praise anyone in our society..but they dont follow or understand that... I personally saw nothing wrong with the cartoons... hell we have had those of other govt high wigs and even the pope...no one ran around killing and yelling down with you... sorry only my view:biggrin1:
RideRocket
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The other aspect that I find interesting is how the press (most of it anyway) here in the USA which is so concerned about free speech all of a sudden wants to respect Islam and won't publish the cartoons for fear of being insensitive. Yet, they have no problem depicting pictures that denigrate Christianity (i.e. - the Virgin Mary covered in feces and Jesus on the crucifix in a vat of urine).
I think the press realizes that Christians won't come hunt them down, kill them, and burn down their buildings while Muslims will.
I think the press realizes that Christians won't come hunt them down, kill them, and burn down their buildings while Muslims will.
Still waiting to see a pope-porn picture though. 
OK, a bit tasteless, RUN FOR COVER!
Personally, I do feel this whole thing is getting way...too...much. Blargh, religons, I often wonder, if the Jewish, the Christians and the Muslims all believe in the one God, yet all fight each other, thinking that God's on their side...what the fuck?
More peace, less fighting is always a good idea.
OK, a bit tasteless, RUN FOR COVER!
Personally, I do feel this whole thing is getting way...too...much. Blargh, religons, I often wonder, if the Jewish, the Christians and the Muslims all believe in the one God, yet all fight each other, thinking that God's on their side...what the fuck?
More peace, less fighting is always a good idea.
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RideRocket said:
There are some who would... but not if you're straight.
We all know there are a lot of moderate Christians out there. While they stay behind the scenes most of the time, there are still web sites and such speaking out against the hateful elements (fundies) that are taking over.
Has anyone come across any evidence of a moderate Muslim population?
RideRocket
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Chuck64 said:
Staying behind the scenes and using inflammatory words/language to object to an issue is one thing. It's completely another (and unacceptable) thing to lash out in violence. While there are Christian extremists who resort to violence, they are the vast exception rather than the norm. Plus, their actions are denounced by other Christians.
In Islam, on the other hand, it seems that violence is the usually the first course of action. Toleration only applies as long as you adhere to their viewpoint. To make matters worse, the rest of the Muslim population rarely (if never) condemns such behavior. Silence is consent. You are right, I don't think there is such a thing as moderate Islam.
Unfortunately, I think it will be too late before the general public realizes the threat that this extremism presents.
__________
sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me...
Totally disagree. The majority of the Muslim population doesn't get heard or reported on in the US. Most Muslims want to put food on the table and enjoy their friends, families and lives like everyone else on this planet.
Speaking of stirring shit up, the extremists consistently make the headlines, but then that's no surprise. The inference that there are lots of moderate christians but no moderate muslims is just a crock of 'we're-better-than-you' horseshit designed to make us feel self-righteous.
Not all US christians have a great record of distinguishing themselves from extremists. However, I do feel that many christians are quick to protest when they are all painted with the same broad brush. Their complaints ring hollow when they paint Muslims with that exact same brush.
Speaking of stirring shit up, the extremists consistently make the headlines, but then that's no surprise. The inference that there are lots of moderate christians but no moderate muslims is just a crock of 'we're-better-than-you' horseshit designed to make us feel self-righteous.
Not all US christians have a great record of distinguishing themselves from extremists. However, I do feel that many christians are quick to protest when they are all painted with the same broad brush. Their complaints ring hollow when they paint Muslims with that exact same brush.
Word.
By all rights, I could argue in "Oil rich country x" that by proxy, all Christians are Bush-philes who believe that money is more valuable than life.
Anyway, why do they have to be called "Moderate". I'd be offended to be called that term. I'm not moderate (whatever, I'm not Muslim), everyone else is extreme! Moderation is used to control too much of a bad thing, don't these pissant journos understand the English language?
By all rights, I could argue in "Oil rich country x" that by proxy, all Christians are Bush-philes who believe that money is more valuable than life.
Anyway, why do they have to be called "Moderate". I'd be offended to be called that term. I'm not moderate (whatever, I'm not Muslim), everyone else is extreme! Moderation is used to control too much of a bad thing, don't these pissant journos understand the English language?
SpeedoGuy
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On reflecting on this futher, I'd tend to think the autocrats who rule Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran and other garden spots would be only too happy to allow government controlled press and clerics to whip the willing faithful into an anti-western frenzy. Defending the sanctity of Islam is the perfect excuse for the despots in Riyadh, Cairo, Tunis and elsewhere to direct latent public rage outwards rather than where it really should be directed.
Does anyone think that angry crowds would be allowed to gather and torch foreign embassies unless the Arab authorities wanted it so? Couldn't this be payback for the Scandinavian countries' tendency to fund aid groups who criticize anti-democratic Arab governments?
Does anyone think that angry crowds would be allowed to gather and torch foreign embassies unless the Arab authorities wanted it so? Couldn't this be payback for the Scandinavian countries' tendency to fund aid groups who criticize anti-democratic Arab governments?
In case someone hasn't seen them yet:
http://www.faithfreedom.org.nyud.net:8090/Gallery/Mo_Cartoons.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
-- Erik
http://www.faithfreedom.org.nyud.net:8090/Gallery/Mo_Cartoons.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy
-- Erik
