Outing.

[Sumdoodsf]

I disagree with outing a person. It isn't my place to change their life, or their situation. I am perfectly fine with sharing my coming out story, and encouraging people to be themselves, safely, and to evaluate their situation honestly.

But someone, even a politician who votes against my rights, has the right to a private life. So, no, I've never outed someone.

Exactly. As humans we are entitled to our private lives and reserve the right to decide what we want others to know.

It's why I have nothing but contempt for people like Perez Hilton who make a living out of outing people.

People should come out when they want to.

 

[Sumdoodsf]

If someone accidentally outs themselves, fine.

Exactly. If one thinks of George Michael and the LA bathroom incident....

End of the day.... he was taking the risk and he got caught and we found out. It's the same as using Grindr or a website if you're an actor. You run the risk of discovery.. but you make the choice.

Making the choice to out someone is not cool in my book. You don't know their situation. You don't know their family situation... may be they have extremely homophobic family members.

 

[EllieP]

I think intentionally outing closeted politicians is counter productive.

I'll give an example... Larry Craig

At the end of the day, his arrest in that bathroom was a civil rights violation. If we say that for sake of argument that Larry Craig was definitely trying to seduce the Police officer in the other stall, that's still not fucking illegal. It's free speech. He didn't say "Hey, let's have sex in this bathroom stall right now". All he did was express an interest in someone else and that's totally not illegal.

Supporting his outing also implicitly supports anti-gay behavior on the part of the police. It legitimizes what they were doing when it should in no way be legitimized. Those officers should be under civil suit.

There's nothing wrong with being gay, and a lot of this outing stuff, even if trying to highlight hypocrisy, it carries with it a lot of insinuation as well. That not only is this person gay, but that there's something wrong with that.

If someone accidentally outs themselves, fine, but I think intentionally trying to drag this stuff into the public place is immoral and I file it under "two wrongs don't make a right".

I'm not even considering legalities or arrests. I'm talking about full disclosure. Don't live one way and vote another just to curry favor with the populace.

 

[950483]

Yes I have outed someone. I was about 18, and this scenario involved three people I had been friends with in school. For years the boys had 'secretly' been a couple, and one of them had a pretend girlfriend for appearances sake. She was oblivious to what was going on, and he was quite emotionally cruel to her. Her mother, who was her only parent, had died not long before of cancer. I still think I did the right thing.

 

[shard38]

I haven't outed people by going public about them, but I have told some guys that I wasn't going to be their "dirty secret". I had some great friendships with those guys and they turned sexual, mainly because of the close bond between us and their desires to experiment and learn more about their own sexuality. I told them it was no one business but ours what we did in bed, but when one of them was asked about it he not only completely denied it but also stated the whole idea of having sex with me was ridiculous and disgusting to him. And that really hurt my feelings. So I told him (and the guys after him) that from then on if people asked sincerely I wasn't going to deny what happened. I apply the same rule now to people who cheat.

 

[Wave85]

Yes I have outed someone. I was about 18, and this scenario involved three people I had been friends with in school. For years the boys had 'secretly' been a couple, and one of them had a pretend girlfriend for appearances sake. She was oblivious to what was going on, and he was quite emotionally cruel to her. Her mother, who was her only parent, had died not long before of cancer. I still think I did the right thing.

So you "outed" him to the girl. Did she believe you?

 

[KennF]

I'm not even considering legalities or arrests. I'm talking about full disclosure. Don't live one way and vote another just to curry favor with the populace.

*chuckle* Now you're moving into a totally different area... that is voting to curry favor....

I think intentionally outing closeted politicians is counter productive.

I'll give an example... Larry Craig

At the end of the day, his arrest in that bathroom was a civil rights violation. If we say that for sake of argument that Larry Craig was definitely trying to seduce the Police officer in the other stall, that's still not fucking illegal. It's free speech. He didn't say "Hey, let's have sex in this bathroom stall right now". All he did was express an interest in someone else and that's totally not illegal.

Supporting his outing also implicitly supports anti-gay behavior on the part of the police. It legitimizes what they were doing when it should in no way be legitimized. Those officers should be under civil suit.

There's nothing wrong with being gay, and a lot of this outing stuff, even if trying to highlight hypocrisy, it carries with it a lot of insinuation as well. That not only is this person gay, but that there's something wrong with that.

If someone accidentally outs themselves, fine, but I think intentionally trying to drag this stuff into the public place is immoral and I file it under "two wrongs don't make a right".

This goes a bit astray for me. I agree in conclusion that outing has unintended consequences that can be counter productive.

I don't know that Larry Craig would be my choice for a good argument. It is difficult to see his actions as exercising free speech. I wouldn't call propositioning someone in a public bathroom by tapping your foot and reaching down and even looking under the stall wall an act of protected free speech. I am not sure it rises to the level of "lewd and lascivious" behavior, either.

His closeted state made it more sensationalized.
Outing him before the incident would have been defeatist, since he would have gone deeper into the closet.
Outing him after the incident, as was done, only led to his replacement by another person who opposed LGBT rights.

In the end, what did it accomplish?

 

[TexanStar]

Yes I have outed someone. I was about 18, and this scenario involved three people I had been friends with in school. For years the boys had 'secretly' been a couple, and one of them had a pretend girlfriend for appearances sake. She was oblivious to what was going on, and he was quite emotionally cruel to her. Her mother, who was her only parent, had died not long before of cancer. I still think I did the right thing.

You informed a friend who was being cheated on that she was being cheated on.

 

[622675]

Just curious. Seems to have opened an interesting conversation.

Did you mean to limit “outing” to mean, “an act of telling the public that a person is homosexual when that person does not want the public to know”?

If not “outing” could encompass a wide range of ethical situations and the discussion will likely not stay on track.

 

[Jjz1109]

There's nothing wrong with being gay, and a lot of this outing stuff, even if trying to highlight hypocrisy, it carries with it a lot of insinuation as well. That not only is this person gay, but that there's something wrong with that.

Agree. Outing someone perpetuates all the negative stereotypes and connotations associated with being gay. Anyone who feels it's their right, or duty, to out someone because they don't support your views and agenda is wrong, and hypocritical themselves. It sustains the scourge and perceptions of being gay.

 

[950483]

So you "outed" him to the girl. Did she believe you?

No idea. I never saw her again. The conversation took place in a nightclub toilet. She was crying in the toilets, and I was working, so I had to get back to work. It was all glaringly obvious once someone pointed it out I think. She was upset that they would all go out together as a group of 8 to 10 people, and he had a habit of just ditching her, and not necessarily saying anything and just leaving without her. I pointed out that the two boys always left together, which people just accepted as normal because they had been joined at the hip their whole lives, (it seemed like a very odd and unhealthy relationship to me). Then I just spelt it out, that he had told me he was gay, and I wasn't just casting aspersions. I was one of the few people who knew, so I felt a bit bad, especially as he did have a very homophobic older brother, but on the other hand, he was a cunt. I hope he grew out of it.

 

[Jjz1109]

No idea. I never saw her again. The conversation took place in a nightclub toilet. She was crying in the toilets, and I was working, so I had to get back to work. It was all glaringly obvious once someone pointed it out I think. She was upset that they would all go out together as a group of 8 to 10 people, and he had a habit of just ditching her, and not necessarily saying anything and just leaving without her. I pointed out that the two boys always left together, which people just accepted as normal because they had been joined at the hip their whole lives, (it seemed like a very odd and unhealthy relationship to me). Then I just spelt it out, that he had told me he was gay, and I wasn't just casting aspersions. I was one of the few people who knew, so I felt a bit bad, especially as he did have a very homophobic older brother, but on the other hand, he was a cunt. I hope he grew out of it.

So you took it upon yourself to right the ship? Presumably he told you this in confidence. Maybe he was working through his issues. Eventually, he would have made a decision and had to tell one of them, the guy or the girl, where things were going, like ANY relationship. Or maybe she would have figured it out. Or maybe he was bi, and she might have accepted it. No one gave you that right to do what you did.

 

[Wave85]

So you took it upon yourself to right the ship? Presumably he told you this in confidence. Maybe he was working through his issues. Eventually, he would have made a decision and had to tell one of them, the guy or the girl, where things were going, like ANY relationship. Or maybe she would have figured it out. Or maybe he was bi, and she might have accepted it. No one gave you that right to do what you did.

And if he was fooling around with another girl it would have been ok for @swoon to tell her? Just the "outing" made it wrong?

 

[AlteredEgo]

My friend's older brother was allowed to attend our sleepover parties because all of our parents knew he was gay. It was just obvious. He had girlfriends, but we all knew they were beards. One night, we got him talking while he was unconcious, and asked him to just trust us. He told us he was gay. The next day, he denied it had ever been said and told us to stop messing with him. A few years later, we found gay porn that had gotten lost behind his dresser while we helped him rearrange his room. He denied it was his, and accused us of planting it. One day, over drinks, after he was officially out he made another confession. He said he wanted us to find the porn, but had lost his nerve to tell us anything, and that years and years prior, he had been pretending to be unconscious, but the next day got scared. It had taken him decades to trust in our love. That is the society we have made.

 

[TexanStar]

No idea. I never saw her again. The conversation took place in a nightclub toilet. She was crying in the toilets, and I was working, so I had to get back to work. It was all glaringly obvious once someone pointed it out I think. She was upset that they would all go out together as a group of 8 to 10 people, and he had a habit of just ditching her, and not necessarily saying anything and just leaving without her. I pointed out that the two boys always left together, which people just accepted as normal because they had been joined at the hip their whole lives, (it seemed like a very odd and unhealthy relationship to me). Then I just spelt it out, that he had told me he was gay, and I wasn't just casting aspersions. I was one of the few people who knew, so I felt a bit bad, especially as he did have a very homophobic older brother, but on the other hand, he was a cunt. I hope he grew out of it.

Gay or not, did you know for sure he was cheating? Or this was a conclusion you drew based on who he was leaving with?

 

[Wave85]

My friend's older brother was allowed to attend our sleepover parties because all of our parents knew he was gay. It was just obvious. He had girlfriends, but we all knew they were beards. One night, we got him talking while he was unconcious, and asked him to just trust us. He told us he was gay. The next day, he denied it had ever been said and told us to stop messing with him. A few years later, we found gay porn that had gotten lost behind his dresser while we helped him rearrange his room. He denied it was his, and accused us of planting it. One day, over drinks, after he was officially out he made another confession. He said he wanted us to find the porn, but had lost his nerve to tell us anything, and that years and years prior, he had been pretending to be unconscious, but the next day got scared. It had taken him decades to trust in our love. That is the society we have made.

I have been missing your wisdom @AlteredEgo...

 

[KennF]

My friend's older brother was allowed to attend our sleepover parties because all of our parents knew he was gay. It was just obvious.

(*singing*)
"Come an knock on my door.
We've been waiting for you.
Where the kisses are hers and hers and his...
Three's Company, too"

 

[Jjz1109]

And if he was fooling around with another girl it would have been ok for @swoon to tell her? Just the "outing" made it wrong?

Don't see how the two relate.

 

[keenobserver]

A better example of outing than Larry Craig is Robert Bauman. Bauman was a conservative congressman from a conservative part of Maryland in the 70's and 80's. He routinely took to the house floor to make some aspect of being gay illegal - it was a regular occurrence. At the same time he was aggressively screwing young underage male hustlers in his DC office on the Hill. He got caught by the FBI and blamed alcohol (of course) and took the "I am not gay cure." A number of gay activist in DC knew all about him and his secret life but said nothing. Given he was actually working to hurt LGTB people I would have favored outing him. That is about the only case that I would consider doing it.

I myself came out in the early 70's because I feared I was gong to be outed and felt I owed my family my story from me. I wasn't really ready, and there were some rough moments, but it all worked out over a few months time. I felt lucky I that regard.

I agree Larry Craig was somewhat a victim of overzealous law enforcement, but he himself as an elected representative had no problem with it until it was him, so karma taught him a lesson.

 

[TexanStar]

Don't see how the two relate.

How don't they? @Wave85 asked you a fair question.

You complained that Swoon informed a female friend that her boyfriend was cheating on her with another man (one who happened to be in the closet).

Would you also complain if Swoon informed a female friend that her boyfriend was cheating on her with another woman?

Wave is asking because you focused your complaint on the fact that said cheater was outed in the process.