Racism

Are you kidding?? Have you never heard of spontaneous evolution?? Anyhow, we're still diverging 'cause if I fully answered you we would get into gross anatomy, more specifically fast and slow twitch muscle and that is very far from the subject at hand.



It is societal AND biological.


Yes of course because i've seen so many Jamaicans in the ten thousand metres, oh and they always win marathons don't they?

I'm not diverging you are the one that started this.

Here's the main part of my argument:

A race has to be a sharply defined, geographically circumscribed population that represents an isolated or nearly isolated lineage within the species. There’s nothing at all like that in humanity. In terms of the living world, it’s really hard to find a species so genetically homogeneous across its populations as humans.

Evolutionary biologist: race in humans a social, not biological, concept | Newsroom | Washington University in St. Louis

Not only that, this would give you an insight too:

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/race.htm
 
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Here's the main part of my argument:

A race has to be a sharply defined, geographically circumscribed population that represents an isolated or nearly isolated lineage within the species. There’s nothing at all like that in humanity. In terms of the living world, it’s really hard to find a species so genetically homogeneous across its populations as humans.

Evolutionary biologist: race in humans a social, not biological, concept | Newsroom | Washington University in St. Louis

Not only that, this would give you an insight too:

What is Race?

Indeed. I believe that is because we are the top predator. Apart from nature and "Acts of God" we don't have much to challenge us but ourselves in order to occupy space. As such we have "monopolized" this planet for quite some time now. Hence we have certainly become more homogenous... however to negate the root of the plant...

Yes of course because i've seen so many Jamaicans in the ten thousand metres, oh and they always win marathons don't they?

I'm not diverging you are the one that started this.

I invite you to look into the latest research on fast and slow twitch muscle. The human body is very adaptive if you inspire it to evolve. Ever more so if you actually know what you're doing.

From here I must bid you a good evening. It is Saturday night after all. Canada Day weekend nonetheless. Happy B-Day Canada!! :fest30:
Thank you for the debate.

xoxMM
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I leave you with the OP's original post to re-ignite the fire...

Do you think that it's racist of a person not to be interested in (or even of a person to seek out) someone of a particular race or skin color?

I have seen one member on here being criticized for being racist when they mentioned that they aren't interested in black people. But I don't think that was racism or any other type of discrimination - I just think that we all have our own preferences, and this may or may not include skin color.

But, maybe you've been on the receiving end and felt discriminated against because someone rejected you for being of a certain race. Would you view this rejection as racism?
 
Where these formed independently, such as by exposure, media influences or environment?

Exposure to the culture. I've lived in several different states (both coasts and inbetween). The negative views crystallized after moving to Atlanta. I'd had some negative experiences before, but I didn't really have to deal with the community very much day to day so that level of frustration and annoyance didn't really have opportunity to build up in the way that it does down here.

In Atlanta, however, the nuisance and hassles I've had to deal with were not only numerous, but also personal. There's plenty of headache that whites around here cause as well, but it's not "in your face". It's underfunded public school systems and such... definitely serious problems and definitely southern white people behind those problems, but you don't *feel* the sting of it because it's happening in a voting booth and such.

None of this is to imply that I hate all black people, but it's certainly a prejudice. Imagine that every person you meet has an invisible gauge or meter over their head that measures how much you respect them. It starts at some initial value, and as you get to know them it moves up or down (towards respecting them more or less, or stronger emotions on the further ends of the scale). Point being that it's fluid.

For me, the initial starting point of that meter is heavily biased towards "don't respect". I don't hate blacks, but as a group / community, my trust level is very low. If a non-black person that I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they have a question to ask. If a black person I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they are about to ask me to give them some money.

There are things that can override that initial starting point. I know my company doesn't hire the type of black person that I have problems with, so a black co-worker wouldn't have any worse of a first impression with me than a non-black co-worker would. But neighbors will, as will strangers on mass transit, etc.

I use racial slurs when discussing them negatively (provided the kids are well out of earshot) and I've developed a sense that the community is genetically inferior. That's in average, of course, and not to imply that any specific individidual within that community is incapable of excelling. But it's still certainly a racist viewpoint none the less (but one that I've seen validated in my day to day experiences so many times that I've given up feeling guilty about having that opinion).

Anyways, just wanted to expand a bit more on it. Because I know a lot of people on the receiving end of racism and prejudice who seem to think that racists hold an opinion that "all blacks are such n such". It's not so black & white (no pun intended). There are a lot of people in this country who are quite prejudiced, but have real & true friends from the same minority groups from which they're prejudiced about so you wouldn't likely know it.

(and strangely, there are even a number of people who come from the same ethnic groups for which they have prejudices about).
 
Oddly enough though, as someone who's racist (I do happen to hold racist views about African Americans), it's not exactly "instrinsic" features that generate that nuisance factor. It's cultural factors. I don't have issues w/ blacks because they have dark skin (or else I'd have issues with Indians who often have just as dark of skin, if not darker).

I have a good understanding of which of my views & opinions are prejudiced or racist and where they're coming from.

But physical attraction is it's own beast, and I think you're really confusing issues if you suggest that someone who isn't often physically attracted to members of a certain ethnicity is necessarily prejudiced and narrow minded.

As a black guy your honesty amuses me.:smile:
 
I don't think a person who dates interracially is racist. I also don't think that a person who dates intraracially is racist.



I think that a person is racist when there is a hatred of a person's race. When a person who may have great credit and happens to be black and is denied loans or employment...or apartment because of their race.

 
I don't think a person who dates interracially is racist. I also don't think that a person who dates intraracially is racist.



I think that a person is racist when there is a hatred of a person's race. When a person who may have great credit and happens to be black and is denied loans or employment...or apartment because of their race.


A lot of people consider the difference between prejudice and racism to be 'action'.... treating someone differently on the basis of their prejudices (as opposed to someone who holds prejudices but strives to treat everyone equally).

But the examples you gave... denying loans or an apartment on the basis of race... those things are illegal which is problematic in two ways.

1) Wouldn't that then be a more extreme form of racism? Someone who's willing to risk jail time and severe fines because they have such strong views about a minority?

2) That same risk of jail time and fines is a disincentive. Wouldn't you say there have to be a number of people who would do those things, were there no penalty in place, but the penalty inhibits them from doing them? Are they not still racist?

I think the line has to be drawn further in. Things like racial profiling are a much more common occurrence, and not necessarily by police. I worked in retail when I was much younger. Our manager would ask us to keep an extra eye on large groups of African Americans (regardless of how they were dressed), or on individual groups of African Americans who were dressed ghetto (for lack of a better descriptive word at the moment). Smaller numbers of African Americans (solo, husband & wife, etc) wouldn't trip that response provided they were dressed more similar to middle class adult or better.

This wouldn't manifest as someone staring angrily from across the store, but rather employees trying to be 'extra' helpful compared to how they were around other customers, with the intention being to always have them in eyesight that way.

Point being, I don't recall anyone ever batting an eye at those requests. Actions like that are not illegal (you're working loopholes by offering someone extra service on the basis of race rather than denying them service on the basis), but certainly the motives behind it stem from a very negative perception of the community. I would consider that racism, would you feel the same even though it's not as extreme as the two examples you gave?
 
Here is my take on this. People can like who they want to like but since the internet is so anonymous people say shit they should not and phrase things so badly it may in fact show a racist side. Speaking as someone who IS a minority in the USA, but doesn't look like one, I hear, read and take offense to a lot of things people say because they don't know who I am.

My solution is to not say who you don't like, it is to say who you do like! Here are a few different ways to phrase things, I will post one that is offensive and one that is less/unoffensive:

A: Don't even bother if you are over 30!
B: I prefer guys my own age or in their 20s.

A: Latinos only, not into whites, black, Asian
B: I really get turned on to Latinos!

A: No fats, no fems, no twinks
B: I enjoy spending time with masculine, in shape guys.

So what I am saying is. Answer B will not piss people off. People will read it and think, "oh he isn't interested in me" and move on. Answer A will get people thinking, "WTF is wrong with this jerk!

So my advice is, state your preference, not what you hate.

*** side note, this isn't just with gays. I have a white female friend who is really into black guys but she wants them to be American born. Where we live there are a lot from east Africa and the Caribbean. In her Match profile she stated "no foreigners." I told her that cast a very negative outlook on her profile because anyone who saw that would think she was some sort of xenophobe/ racist and even if they were American, they would move on and think poorly of her. My advice was to take that out, figure out a better way to say that she wanted American guys and if she couldn't, just don't respond to the guys she isn't interested in!
 
Exposure to the culture. I've lived in several different states (both coasts and inbetween). The negative views crystallized after moving to Atlanta. I'd had some negative experiences before, but I didn't really have to deal with the community very much day to day so that level of frustration and annoyance didn't really have opportunity to build up in the way that it does down here.

In Atlanta, however, the nuisance and hassles I've had to deal with were not only numerous, but also personal. There's plenty of headache that whites around here cause as well, but it's not "in your face". It's underfunded public school systems and such... definitely serious problems and definitely southern white people behind those problems, but you don't *feel* the sting of it because it's happening in a voting booth and such.

None of this is to imply that I hate all black people, but it's certainly a prejudice. Imagine that every person you meet has an invisible gauge or meter over their head that measures how much you respect them. It starts at some initial value, and as you get to know them it moves up or down (towards respecting them more or less, or stronger emotions on the further ends of the scale). Point being that it's fluid.

For me, the initial starting point of that meter is heavily biased towards "don't respect". I don't hate blacks, but as a group / community, my trust level is very low. If a non-black person that I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they have a question to ask. If a black person I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they are about to ask me to give them some money.

There are things that can override that initial starting point. I know my company doesn't hire the type of black person that I have problems with, so a black co-worker wouldn't have any worse of a first impression with me than a non-black co-worker would. But neighbors will, as will strangers on mass transit, etc.

I use racial slurs when discussing them negatively (provided the kids are well out of earshot) and I've developed a sense that the community is genetically inferior. That's in average, of course, and not to imply that any specific individidual within that community is incapable of excelling. But it's still certainly a racist viewpoint none the less (but one that I've seen validated in my day to day experiences so many times that I've given up feeling guilty about having that opinion).

Anyways, just wanted to expand a bit more on it. Because I know a lot of people on the receiving end of racism and prejudice who seem to think that racists hold an opinion that "all blacks are such n such". It's not so black & white (no pun intended). There are a lot of people in this country who are quite prejudiced, but have real & true friends from the same minority groups from which they're prejudiced about so you wouldn't likely know it.

(and strangely, there are even a number of people who come from the same ethnic groups for which they have prejudices about).

After reading all that, you are pathetic and disgust me as human being. You exemplify what is wrong so many white Americans that want to generalized non-white Americans but if someone points out your flaws or shortcoming then it is a problem. Race will continue to be an issue because of pieces-of-shit like you because you can't cast it off as an individual issue instead you assume all black Americans are this way because of what you see in one place. Your hubris will be your own downfall, so don't be surprised if you are in for nasty comeuppance because your irrational racist perspective.

Oh yeah, don't waste your time responding to me because you are a piece of shit as far as I am concerned and I have nothing to say to fecal matter. You are non-motherfucking factor and on ignore from this moment forward.
 
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Exposure to the culture. I've lived in several different states (both coasts and inbetween). The negative views crystallized after moving to Atlanta. I'd had some negative experiences before, but I didn't really have to deal with the community very much day to day so that level of frustration and annoyance didn't really have opportunity to build up in the way that it does down here.

In Atlanta, however, the nuisance and hassles I've had to deal with were not only numerous, but also personal. There's plenty of headache that whites around here cause as well, but it's not "in your face". It's underfunded public school systems and such... definitely serious problems and definitely southern white people behind those problems, but you don't *feel* the sting of it because it's happening in a voting booth and such.

None of this is to imply that I hate all black people, but it's certainly a prejudice. Imagine that every person you meet has an invisible gauge or meter over their head that measures how much you respect them. It starts at some initial value, and as you get to know them it moves up or down (towards respecting them more or less, or stronger emotions on the further ends of the scale). Point being that it's fluid.

For me, the initial starting point of that meter is heavily biased towards "don't respect". I don't hate blacks, but as a group / community, my trust level is very low. If a non-black person that I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they have a question to ask. If a black person I don't know approaches me to ask something, my initial assumption will be that they are about to ask me to give them some money.

There are things that can override that initial starting point. I know my company doesn't hire the type of black person that I have problems with, so a black co-worker wouldn't have any worse of a first impression with me than a non-black co-worker would. But neighbors will, as will strangers on mass transit, etc.

I use racial slurs when discussing them negatively (provided the kids are well out of earshot) and I've developed a sense that the community is genetically inferior. That's in average, of course, and not to imply that any specific individidual within that community is incapable of excelling. But it's still certainly a racist viewpoint none the less (but one that I've seen validated in my day to day experiences so many times that I've given up feeling guilty about having that opinion).

Anyways, just wanted to expand a bit more on it. Because I know a lot of people on the receiving end of racism and prejudice who seem to think that racists hold an opinion that "all blacks are such n such". It's not so black & white (no pun intended). There are a lot of people in this country who are quite prejudiced, but have real & true friends from the same minority groups from which they're prejudiced about so you wouldn't likely know it.

(and strangely, there are even a number of people who come from the same ethnic groups for which they have prejudices about).

I think you have built up your prejudices that come from something way more deep-rooted, like the environment you were brought up with. I think you probably have never had a desire to change those at all.

Maybe if you looked at what black people there have to come up against in a society that views and portrays them so negatively, you might have had a different point of view. If you are consistently told by wider society that you can never succeed, that you will always be judged, that you will be harassed by the police due to profiling or you could be denied a housing loan, do you think it's a surprise many give up hope of making something of themselves?

It's like a collective sense of depression due to neglect, apathy and stereotyping.
 
After reading all that, you are pathetic and disgust me as human being. You exemplify what is wrong so many white Americans that want to generalized non-white Americans but if someone points out your flaws or shortcoming then it is a problem. Race will continue to be an issue because of pieces-of-shit like you because you can't cast it off as an individual issue instead you assume all black Americans are this way because of what you see in one place. Your hubris will be your own downfall, so don't be surprised if you are in for nasty comeuppance because your irrational racist perspective.

Oh yeah, don't waste your time responding to me because you are a piece of shit as far as I am concerned and I have nothing to say to fecal matter. You are non-motherfucking factor and on ignore from this moment forward.

I'll try not to weep too much as you make my own point for me.

I'd also suggest to you that you also need to work on your reading comprehension since there are some interpretations you've taken that are completely reversed from what I just said, but since I'm already on ignore, I suppose that would be lost.
 
I think you have built up your prejudices that come from something way more deep-rooted, like the environment you were brought up with. I think you probably have never had a desire to change those at all.

Maybe if you looked at what black people there have to come up against in a society that views and portrays them so negatively, you might have had a different point of view. If you are consistently told by wider society that you can never succeed, that you will always be judged, that you will be harassed by the police due to profiling or you could be denied a housing loan, do you think it's a surprise many give up hope of making something of themselves?

It's like a collective sense of depression due to neglect, apathy and stereotyping.

Oh, I'm sure that my upbringing plays a role. Considering that this is a pretty big assumption on your part though, would you care to expand on it?

I'll be fine to tell you the nature of it afterwards, I'm just curious on what your impression of my background & upbringing is since you're already of the assumption that it stems, in part, from a lack of understanding about what black people have been through.
 
Oh, I'm sure that my upbringing plays a role. Considering that this is a pretty big assumption on your part though, would you care to expand on it?

I'll be fine to tell you the nature of it afterwards, I'm just curious on what your impression of my background & upbringing is since you're already of the assumption that it stems, in part, from a lack of understanding about what black people have been through.

The reason why I assumed your upbringing has played a role in the way you view the world is beause it seems to be so deep rooted, the only way you could have developed those views would have been through something as deep-rooted as your up-bringing. The other factor is the fact that american society is obsessed with skin colour, this permeates everything, so it would be very difficult for you to have not been influenced by that.

The problem is you were never able to make a disconnect seperating random strangers who don't look like you and negative stereotypes that you've learned (either by yourself or through other influences), and likely were not ever willing to.

Furthermore it's not so much about what black people have been through, it's about the amount of bias they continue to face in many different sectors, in a society that claims to be "post"-racial.
 
Do you think that it's racist of a person not to be interested in (or even of a person to seek out) someone of a particular race or skin color?

I have seen one member on here being criticized for being racist when they mentioned that they aren't interested in black people. But I don't think that was racism or any other type of discrimination - I just think that we all have our own preferences, and this may or may not include skin color.

But, maybe you've been on the receiving end and felt discriminated against because someone rejected you for being of a certain race. Would you view this rejection as racism?

I always find it strange when people say they are not interested in a certain race. I understand that people have preferences and thats what attracts them to people but I always find it eerie when they single out a particular race. I am someone that does not let race cloud my judgment when it comes to people I find attractive. If I find you good looking, then I find you good looking and race has nothing to do with it. Now to the person saying they are not interested in certain races, I wonder is this just cause you have never really thought of broadening you scope when it come to who you deem attractive? Maybe their upbringing did not allow for such foreword thinking. My family is multicultural, in the sense that there are people of many races involved. So I grew up around the idea that loving someone for who they are and not their race is perfectly ok. I just think that a person that can so easily say that they are not interested in a race is either a bit closed minded with there attractiveness meeter, or there is possibly some deep rooted racism going on that they might not be aware of. For that person, whats your reasoning for not being interested in that race? [For example the person we are referring to says they are not interested in black people.] Why? Is it do to all of the negative stereotypes types and now they have turned you off? Or is it that you have not been in an environment that is excepting of you being involved with someone that is black?

I say all this to say, let us all try to grow as a people and except and love people for who they are and not what skin color they do or do not have.
 
The reason why I assumed your upbringing has played a role in the way you view the world is beause it seems to be so deep rooted, the only way you could have developed those views would have been through something as deep-rooted as your up-bringing. The other factor is the fact that american society is obsessed with skin colour, this permeates everything, so it would be very difficult for you to have not been influenced by that.

The problem is you were never able to make a disconnect seperating random strangers who don't look like you and negative stereotypes that you've learned (either by yourself or through other influences), and likely were not ever willing to.

Furthermore it's not so much about what black people have been through, it's about the amount of bias they continue to face in many different sectors, in a society that claims to be "post"-racial.

So... my father is African-American. I could legally identify myself as African American, if I so chose (I generally click of "mixxed" when it's available, or "other" when it's not).

Unlike 72% of youths born to black men, my parents were married at the time I was born (and beyond that, remain married today, over 40 years later).

My father is 0 generations removed from poverty. He was born into it, in the "old south". My grandfather (His father), a farmer, knowing that his children couldn't get the right kinds of opportunities that he wanted for them in life, packed them all up and moved north while they were children. They re-settled into the north, and generally worked their asses off. My grandparents put their kids through the public education system, with strict attention to their behavior and performance.

All of those children went on to college, primarily with the assistance of scholarships, and in adulthood at least moved into the middle class. Several of those children excelled greatly in their careers to the extent that they won accolades for their accomplishments.

Those children are my aunts and uncles. They're all successful, nice, African americans who, through effort on their own parts, moved past the hurdles that life put in front of them to find success.

This is contrasted with the uncle on my mother's side, the white one, who's an abusive cocaine addict & alcoholic.

So my early experiences with African Americans were all positive, because those people are my family and they're great people and great role models.

Beyond my family, I was raised in suburbia. I don't want to say predominantly WASPy (some were predominantly asian or Jewish, etc). But there weren't a lot of other black children. The ones I did come across at school were generally in the same situation that my dad was in a generation earlier (they had parents who were taking a vested interest in their upbringing and were raising pretty 'quality' children).

I did have a few negative experiences. Mostly at one middle school which I had to attend for an advanced placement style program not offered at my local middle school. That middle school was heavily african american. I had an african american student steal my lunch one day (it was liverwurst... hope he liked it). I had another african american student beat me up after school because he forgot to bring his art supplies to school and I wasn't willing to backup his lie that I had stolen his art supplies. But they were isolated incidents, and nothing that amounted to any amount of prejudice.

So up to college, I was very much one of those people who believes that everyone, regardless of race, can achieve success in life because throughout my childhood that's what I was surrounded by (shining examples of exactly that).

But then you hit adulthood. You can't hide away in the suburbs 24/7, and you have to deal with people in an urban setting. If you're taking mass transit (be it for environmental reasons, economic reasons, whatever), you're going to have to deal with it a lot. You get to hear the stories... the sob stories. It's always something. "Hey, I never do this, but I lost my train ticket and I'm trying to get to Smyrna, can you help me out?" "Hey, I never do this, but I lost my wallet on the way to work, can you help me get back home?" "Hey, I never do this, but I just got evicted from my apartment and I have nowhere to sleep".

The stories might really be sad, if you didn't hear the exact same stories, from the exact same people who've forgotten your face over the course of a week even though you haven't forgotten theirs.

People like the one black gentleman, to whom I gave quite literally the very last dollar I had in my wallet, said to me incredulously "That's it?". The same black gentleman who puffed himself up and threatened violence when I told him that he'd given me the same story the week prior.

That would be a different black gentleman from the one who threatened violence when I suggested that he was rude for asking for, and taking money from, a poor single mother travelling with her toddler.

I wish I could say it's just Atlanta, but you travel to Chicago, and you get a reasonably well dressed black man who calls you over on the street. You answer his calls and ask if you can help him with something. He starts off by thanking you for taking the time to talk with him, because apparently someone else had just said "sorry, I don't speak to n***ers" (an anecdote he relates to me). This is then of course, followed by, "Hey, I never do this, but I've lost my wallet. Can you spare ten bucks so I can get home. I work right up the block."

(That's the same day, by the way, that I saw three black youths sprinting down the street with an Asian woman's purse. I was in Chicago for one day... I really wish I was making this shit up, but such is life.)

It's not that one goes through life without seeing white panhandlers. I see them on freeway exits all the time, holding up their signs and a cup.

But it's that personal level... that being approached by a stranger who wants to speak with you. I wish I could say it doesn't happen this way, but over the course of years, whenever a black person has done this it's always as a part of solicitation for a free handout. With people of other races... any race... a lot of times it's just for the friendly conversation.

....

And then there's the public school system, post housing market crash. There's a lot of foreclosures out there... and a lot of rentals... and suddenly there's a lot of people showing up in suburban public schools who couldn't previously have afforded to be there.

My children are in the public school system. There have been three times that we've had to visit with the school administration because other children were putting their hands (and feet) on ours in an aggressive fashion. Three times... three different children.

Want to guess the race? You know where this conversation is going so I don't even need to say it, but yeah... three occasions of violence by other children... black kids every time. More specifically, black kids born into fatherless homes with inattentive mothers who really don't belong on this end of town, but the economy gave them some more mobility and they thought that by moving up here and continuing to put 0 effort into raising their kids that they'd magically come out well.

The percentage of black children at our school is still very small, but still... three outta three.

I'd entertain the possibility that my children could've had a role in it if they weren't, as I was, exposed to so many positive black role models from such an early age. Rather the opposite, a lot of the other kids at school are held of much more overtly racist opinions than they are (and for brevity's sake in an already long post, I won't run over some of those anecdotes).

And then you get to hear all the experiences your neighbors are having with the same groups of children... the one who's child had his scooter stolen by a teenager threatening violence... the one who had the pickets ripped off their fence by one of these same kids, etc yeah... that steady stream of negative and personally felt interactions that comes only from one ethnicity... that's what changes your view.

And one day you find yourself listening to all the cries about all the bias they face and all you can think is "Booooo fucking hoo. My grandparents had it way the fuck worse than your goddamn worthless lazy ass did and they worked their way out of the situation. Pull up your fucking pants, pick up some free condoms instead of cranking out babies, and get a god damned job.

And if you can't... if you can't do shit with your life... that's something wrong with you and that's no one's fault but yours. There's what I assume are illegal aliens that live up the road, and their dads are with their families and they're out at the gas station every freakin day looking for work. It's hot as hell down here and still they're standing out there in the hopes of finding someone to pay them to do what labor they can.

They're not even citizens in this country... they're so far behind your starting point it's sad... and they're working their asses off to try and move ahead.

People in Arizona get so up in arms about illegal immigration, and I think things like "Man, those aren't the people we need to be getting rid of!!"

Every time some black guy comes up to me and asks for change (which is still all too regularly), all I can think is "Man... I wish I could get away with saying "Sorry, I don't talk to n***ers".

...

So that's the impact that my upbringing had on shaping my views in life. I've had multiple first hand examples of what's possible in this country when you put your nose to the grindstone and really work. You may have to work harder than someone else does, but that can be said of everyone's situation in life.

That first hand knowledge of what black people can accomplish, but don't accomplish in this country, it drains me of empathy for their situation. I don't want to say it spills into antipathy and hatred, exactly. I have genuine friends, family, and coworkers who are black. I'm half black myself. If there's an open seat next to a black person on the train, I don't choose to stand. I don't wish strangers ill on the basis of their skin color. I still hold open doors, and smile at babies, and so on and so on.

But there's a level of suspicion that comes with being regularly 'burned'. Whereas once I might greet a black family that's moved into the neighborhood, I now keep to myself unless they come over to introduce themselves first. When I pass by a black youth on the street, I doublecheck that my wallet and backpack are secured.

I would love to say that I'm alone in this opinion... that I've just somehow become a sad, jaded adult wallowing in misery, but I've come to sense that it's a fairly wideheld opinion. If you've ever seen the Eddie Murphy skit wear he has a professional makeup artist turn him into a white man so he can see what they're like when blacks aren't around... it's a hilarious skit, but there's truth in it (and it's not limited to whites expressing the same opinions).

So... an extremely long story later, that's the path that led to the formation of my admittedly racist views.

If it's easier, you're free to ignore everything I've just said and argue some wacky alternative like I secretly hate the black part of myself and that I'm jealous of white people and that manifests itself as a hatred of the black community... or that my dad beat me (he never did) and that I secretly hate him and because I can't escape having him as a father that hatred instead manifests itself as a hatred of the black community.

You wouldn't be alone in making those kind of arguments. Some people just can't handle the fact that some people... on the basis of their first hand interactions with the African american community... come to find it a second rate culture and not only its own worst enemy, but its only enemy. They want to imagine a bunch of Joe Arpaio wannabes who hate anyone and everyone who's not just like them. I'm sorry, but life's just not that black & white.
 
Here is my take on this. People can like who they want to like but since the internet is so anonymous people say shit they should not and phrase things so badly it may in fact show a racist side. Speaking as someone who IS a minority in the USA, but doesn't look like one, I hear, read and take offense to a lot of things people say because they don't know who I am.

My solution is to not say who you don't like, it is to say who you do like! Here are a few different ways to phrase things, I will post one that is offensive and one that is less/unoffensive:

A: Don't even bother if you are over 30!
B: I prefer guys my own age or in their 20s.

A: Latinos only, not into whites, black, Asian
B: I really get turned on to Latinos!

A: No fats, no fems, no twinks
B: I enjoy spending time with masculine, in shape guys.

So what I am saying is. Answer B will not piss people off. People will read it and think, "oh he isn't interested in me" and move on. Answer A will get people thinking, "WTF is wrong with this jerk!

So my advice is, state your preference, not what you hate.


I like that paradigm. I totally agree.
 
This might sound like i'm being disrespectful but i'm not trying to be. You may want to ask them how they "got out" because its pretty clear you do not and would not even begin to know what it takes or what life is really like.

mmm hmm ;)

Anyways, I'll make a mental note to ask my Grandma when I next talk to her about whether there's more to the story than I'm already aware of.

Is there some particular expectation you're having about what the answer will be? Were you wanting me to come back and share some more details?
 
mmm hmm ;)

Anyways, I'll make a mental note to ask my Grandma when I next talk to her about whether there's more to the story than I'm already aware of.

Is there some particular expectation you're having about what the answer will be? Were you wanting me to come back and share some more details?

Actually no. I'm sure though that her answer would be along the lines of "i focused more about what i was doing versus other people's errors".

I wasn't waiting no, your opinion isn't all that new.

As in. These people/persons were mean to me...so i hate'm all grrr. Same old same old.

I just think its just funny what you and others waste your energy and so called brain power on. Don't get me wrong. Things and people do get frustrating, but its just funny how utterly lazy racism is.
 
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These people/persons were mean to me...so i hate'm all grrr. Same old same old.

I do realize my post was a bajillion lines and certainly not proseworthy enough for a full readthrough for anyone except the very bored.

But again, like Kayman, you misrepresent a view that was shared in very straightforward fashion.

If you want to read what I've written, and walk away with a sense that I hate all black people over a simplistic reaction to the day to day nuisances caused by a minority of the black people I come across each day... feel free, I guess. I can write it off as a failure on my part to communicate effectively just as easily as I could write it off as a failure on your part to listen.

I am racist. I don't "hate" any ethnic groups (there are individuals towards whom I feel hatred, but not groups). The negative views I hold create a bias in my initial impressions of individuals, but like my impressions of anyone, they shift as I get to know them (for better or for worse).

If you want to consider anyone's negative preconceptions about another group as synonymous with hatred... man... good luck with that. Because just about everyone's got them (especially on right -vs- left political axis these days).
 
I do realize my post was a bajillion lines and certainly not proseworthy enough for a full readthrough for anyone except the very bored.

But again, like Kayman, you misrepresent a view that was shared in very straightforward fashion.

If you want to read what I've written, and walk away with a sense that I hate all black people over a simplistic reaction to the day to day nuisances caused by a minority of the black people I come across each day... feel free, I guess. I can write it off as a failure on my part to communicate effectively just as easily as I could write it off as a failure on your part to listen.

I am racist. I don't "hate" any ethnic groups (there are individuals towards whom I feel hatred, but not groups). The negative views I hold create a bias in my initial impressions of individuals, but like my impressions of anyone, they shift as I get to know them (for better or for worse).

If you want to consider anyone's negative preconceptions about another group as synonymous with hatred... man... good luck with that. Because just about everyone's got them (especially on right -vs- left political axis these days).

Apparently you don't know what the meaning of being a racist is. I don't know maybe i'm mistaken, maybe you haven't identified yourself as one. Oh i'm sorry, you actually didn't say you were racist. Though i'm sure your posts speak for themselves on how you feel about black people.

I would also like to add that you keep going. Racist people need a vision to strive for.
 
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