Trying to bulk.

[FastNHard]

Get a food scale and some measuring cups/spoons and use a calorie tracking app or website like myfitnesspal for a few weeks, logging everything you eat. Do not "estimate". You can even post your weekly intake from mfp here for people to look over.

Up to 5400 calories a day and still 160lbs for a year and a half? I don't believe it. I think you are overestimating your food intake.

Most people unable to bulk or unable to lose weight are simply not tracking their calories in/out properly. Certain hormonal and digestive conditions and genetics may cause some minor differences in metabolism and calorie absorption but none that will make 5400 calories a day disappear without any weight gain.

I was doing 5400 calories for three months and put on only a couple pounds. Just my shakes I was doing was 3000-3200 calories measuring things out. I've got a lot of digestive issues, horrible bloating, unable to even eat hardly anything anymore. I don't think I'm absorbing 80% of what I eat. Cannot get that figured out either. I bet I'm not able to eat 2500 calories now without forcing it in. I don't really care about it anymore to be honest.

 

[inspectordickins]

I was doing 5400 calories for three months and put on only a couple pounds. Just my shakes I was doing was 3000-3200 calories measuring things out. I've got a lot of digestive issues, horrible bloating, unable to even eat hardly anything anymore. I don't think I'm absorbing 80% of what I eat. Cannot get that figured out either. I bet I'm not able to eat 2500 calories now without forcing it in. I don't really care about it anymore to be honest.

I'm gonna join nailz on this, I really doubt you could take 5400 Calories per day for three months and only gain a couple pounds.

9000 Calories = 1kg ~ 2.2 lbs.

Let's say you consume the average of 2000 Calories for an adult, 3400 Calories would remain and you'd reach that +1kg threshold in about 3 days so in 3 months you would gain roughly 34kg (75 pounds).

Despite that huge Calorie intake you still cannot bulk so there is either a problem with your reporting of energy intake or you have a serious metabolism problem and you should see a doctor and a nutritionist.

 

[FastNHard]

I'm gonna join nailz on this, I really doubt you could take 5400 Calories per day for three months and only gain a couple pounds.

9000 Calories = 1kg ~ 2.2 lbs.

Let's say you consume the average of 2000 Calories for an adult, 3400 Calories would remain and you'd reach that +1kg threshold in about 3 days so in 3 months you would gain roughly 34kg (75 pounds).

Despite that huge Calorie intake you still cannot bulk so there is either a problem with your reporting of energy intake or you have a serious metabolism problem and you should see a doctor and a nutritionist.

Everybody can think what they want, I know what I did and I know what did not happen. I dropped back down to 2000 calories per day and did not go down but a couple pounds then went back up to where I was. These were clean calories, turkey, chicken, potatoes. Now I've resorted to eating pancakes and pizza. Literally all I eat now is 5 whole eggs, protein shake or pizza, skip lunch, 1 chicken breast, 1 apple, 1 protein bar and 2 cheese stick things. My body is just fucked up, it doesn't process shit right. Pretty sure it's some medical issue but my Dr. won't look farther into it. T3 and T4 still has not even been checked. I can give a list of my 5400 calorie diet if everyone would like.

 

[nailz]

It's really this simple:

Most people unable to gain weight overestimate their caloric intake.
Most people unable to lose weight underestimate their caloric intake.​

Literally all I eat now is 5 whole eggs, protein shake or pizza, skip lunch, 1 chicken breast, 1 apple, 1 protein bar and 2 cheese stick things. My body is just fucked up, it doesn't process shit right. Pretty sure it's some medical issue but my Dr. won't look farther into it. T3 and T4 still has not even been checked. I can give a list of my 5400 calorie diet if everyone would like.

5 eggs, 350 cal
chicken breast (200g avg), 240 cal
1 huge apple, 100 cal
1 protein bar (avg), 350 cal
2 cheese sticks (assuming mozzarella), 160 cal
_____________________________
1200 calories

so unless your "protein shake or pizza" is over 4200 calories I don't see how this adds up?

Sure you may be one in a million and have some strange nutrient absorption or metabolism issue, but it's far more likely that you are vastly miscalculating the amount of calories you are eating just like 99% of people who "can't gain weight" or "can't lose weight".

FYI I eat more than you

 

[FastNHard]

It's really this simple:

Most people unable to gain weight overestimate their caloric intake.
Most people unable to lose weight underestimate their caloric intake.​

5 eggs, 350 cal
chicken breast (200g avg), 240 cal
1 huge apple, 100 cal
1 protein bar (avg), 350 cal
2 cheese sticks (assuming mozzarella), 160 cal
_____________________________
1200 calories

so unless your "protein shake or pizza" is over 4200 calories I don't see how this adds up?

Sure you may be one in a million and have some strange nutrient absorption or metabolism issue, but it's far more likely that you are vastly miscalculating the amount of calories you are eating just like 99% of people who "can't gain weight" or "can't lose weight".

FYI I eat more than you

You Must not have read my post correctly...... That is what I eat NOW, not then..... Then was a year ago.....

 

[FastNHard]

It's really this simple:

Most people unable to gain weight overestimate their caloric intake.
Most people unable to lose weight underestimate their caloric intake.​

5 eggs, 350 cal
chicken breast (200g avg), 240 cal
1 huge apple, 100 cal
1 protein bar (avg), 350 cal
2 cheese sticks (assuming mozzarella), 160 cal
_____________________________
1200 calories

so unless your "protein shake or pizza" is over 4200 calories I don't see how this adds up?

Sure you may be one in a million and have some strange nutrient absorption or metabolism issue, but it's far more likely that you are vastly miscalculating the amount of calories you are eating just like 99% of people who "can't gain weight" or "can't lose weight".

FYI I eat more than you

Okay, this is what I was eating 1 year ago. Breakfast, 2-2.5 cups oatmeal=600-650 calories, post shake was whey bulk 1340 which itself is 1340 calories+ 2 cups oatmeal=600+1 cup walnuts=1000+7 tbs olive oil=850 total of 3790 calories, lunch was 4 turkey burgers X 4=560+ 3 potatoes=300, supper, was same as lunch. Total is actually over 6000. Lets just say I skipped all meals but my shake alone, that alone is almost 4000 calories. Yeah, it don't make since, I get why people think I'm not adding correctly, believe me, I don't understand it either..... Even on the lighter side depending what whey I was using it was still 500 less than figured here which would put it at the 5400/5500.

 

[nailz]

I really don't understand why you would start a thread about "trying to bulk" and then completely ignore all advice that is given.

This is the best advice in a nutshell:

Despite that huge Calorie intake you still cannot bulk so there is either a problem with your reporting of energy intake or you have a serious metabolism problem and you should see a doctor and a nutritionist.

But if you are currently eating under 2k calories a day as a 5'11" male then don't be surprised that you are stuck at 160lbs.

 

[nailz]

Okay, this is what I was eating 1 year ago. Breakfast, 2-2.5 cups oatmeal=600-650 calories, post shake was whey bulk 1340 which itself is 1340 calories+ 2 cups oatmeal=600+1 cup walnuts=1000+7 tbs olive oil=850 total of 3790 calories, lunch was 4 turkey burgers X 4=560+ 3 potatoes=300, supper, was same as lunch. Total is actually over 6000. Lets just say I skipped all meals but my shake alone, that alone is almost 4000 calories. Yeah, it don't make since, I get why people think I'm not adding correctly, believe me, I don't understand it either..... Even on the lighter side depending what whey I was using it was still 500 less than figured here which would put it at the 5400/5500.

Were you eating that much consistently for weeks, or just intermittently?
If yes then you should see a doctor because there is something seriously wrong with your metabolism or more likely your digestion. You should have been gaining several pounds a week

 

[FastNHard]

Were you eating that much consistently for weeks, or just intermittently?
If yes then you should see a doctor because there is something seriously wrong with your metabolism or more likely your digestion. You should have been gaining several pounds a week

I did that for three months, everyday. I slowly had to tapper off from that over the next couple months, I totally lost my appetite for any food what so ever. That is the thing that frustrated me to no end, why can I not put on weight, I mean every ounce gained was a struggle. Even now if I stop working out for one week my weight goes down 3 or 4 pounds but then it does come back up. I've always been like this! Ugh! I used to weigh 178 or so in the melon fields and after picking was over I would go down to 120 in a couple months but would come back up to 140s. My digestion is all messed up, bloating every single day, all day, nauseous pretty much everyday now. Upper and lower GI, blood work, cholesterol, all spot on my Dr. says. Just have no idea what to do next.

 

[FastNHard]

[/QUOTE]

I really don't understand why you would start a thread about "trying to bulk" and then completely ignore all advice that is given.

This is the best advice in a nutshell:


But if you are currently eating under 2k calories a day as a 5'11" male then don't be surprised that you are stuck at 160lbs.

What advice? What advice is correct? Who do I believe? Nobody has said anything I haven't already done except maybe a nutritionist, pretty sure you need a Dr. referral to do that...? I have seen a Dr. over a year I've seen my Dr. tests have been ran, blood work, nothing has showed up as an issue. My hormones are messed up some though but nobody has seemed worried about that, Dr. nor chiropractor. He has said my blood work is textbook. Since ditching the clean eating and now eating pancakes and pizza I'm up to 171 as of this morning.

 

[socalfreak]

What advice? What advice is correct? Who do I believe? Nobody has said anything I haven't already done except maybe a nutritionist, pretty sure you need a Dr. referral to do that...? I have seen a Dr. over a year I've seen my Dr. tests have been ran, blood work, nothing has showed up as an issue. My hormones are messed up some though but nobody has seemed worried about that, Dr. nor chiropractor. He has said my blood work is textbook. Since ditching the clean eating and now eating pancakes and pizza I'm up to 171 as of this morning.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time gaining.

I can relate to much of your complaints.

I'm a hard gainer, as well.
Took massive amounts of time and effort to put on weight for me... And still does.

4000 calories a day, just to maintain my weight.
5000+ to gain at a slow pace.
If I take any time off my meal plan, my weight drops like a stone.
I'm never hungry... Because I'm eating every 2-3 hours.
Eating that much that often gets old really fast.
It's not comfortable at times, because I'm forcing my body to change.
It's just part of the game.
I have to eat until my stomach feels like I'm gonna burst sometimes.
If you're having GI issues, maybe a specific food item is messing with you.?
My body hates lactose. I have to get pills or buy lactose-free milk.

As far as your diet/calorie count...
Only you know how accurate and consistent you are.
I'm going to take you at your word on this.
On the surface, based on your posts, it kinda seems like maybe you needed more carbs in your high calorie plan.
I'm saying that because you saw results when you started eating pizza and pancakes.
Playing around with your macros might be a good idea.

Muscle growth requires three things : stimulation (weight training), rest (getting enough sleep?), And fuel.
Get those down & you should be cool.
I left high school at 115 lbs.
Took a long time to get to 200 lbs.

Anyway, hopefully something here helps.
Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
Good luck!

 

[icepick]

I know you're probably overwhelmed with advice, so I'll give you a little more. None of this is exercise related. After all, you're falling asleep while driving in the middle of the day. Tips about number of reps or exercise selection are probably a low priority right now.

1. Never force feed yourself. When your body's ready to bulk up, it will signal hunger. Eating when you're not hungry won't pack on the muscle. It'll possibly pack on the fat and it's bad for the whole body.
2. Meditate. Try the Headspace app (I don't make money from it. I'm just a customer).
3. Don't obsess over protein. Heresy, I know, but I stopped focusing on it, dumped the protein powders, and it hasn't been to my detriment.
4. Fast on occassion. Your digestion system and entire body needs a break from food from time to time. Drink water and/or tea while you do it. You may lose some weight, but it will probably mostly be water and fat.

You may want to ask a doctor about #4 given your health state. After all, fasting is a stressor, albeit a good one.

 

[FastNHard]

What advice? What advice is correct? Who do I believe? Nobody has said anything I haven't already done except maybe a nutritionist, pretty sure you need a Dr. referral to do that...? I have seen a Dr. over a year I've seen my Dr. tests have been ran, blood work, nothing has showed up as an issue. My hormones are messed up some though but nobody has seemed worried about that, Dr. nor chiropractor. He has said my blood work is textbook. Since ditching the clean eating and now eating pancakes and pizza I'm up to 171 as of this morning.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time gaining.

I can relate to much of your complaints.

I'm a hard gainer, as well.
Took massive amounts of time and effort to put on weight for me... And still does.

4000 calories a day, just to maintain my weight.
5000+ to gain at a slow pace.
If I take any time off my meal plan, my weight drops like a stone.
I'm never hungry... Because I'm eating every 2-3 hours.
Eating that much that often gets old really fast.
It's not comfortable at times, because I'm forcing my body to change.
It's just part of the game.
I have to eat until my stomach feels like I'm gonna burst sometimes.
If you're having GI issues, maybe a specific food item is messing with you.?
My body hates lactose. I have to get pills or buy lactose-free milk.

As far as your diet/calorie count...
Only you know how accurate and consistent you are.
I'm going to take you at your word on this.
On the surface, based on your posts, it kinda seems like maybe you needed more carbs in your high calorie plan.
I'm saying that because you saw results when you started eating pizza and pancakes.
Playing around with your macros might be a good idea.

Muscle growth requires three things : stimulation (weight training), rest (getting enough sleep?), And fuel.
Get those down & you should be cool.
I left high school at 115 lbs.
Took a long time to get to 200 lbs.

Anyway, hopefully something here helps.
Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
Good luck![/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's really been a struggle for sure. I think I just can't put on weight eating clean. I eat clean no matter the calorie intake I only maintain, I put on weight eating crap basically and I look bigger. I was eating between 500 and 600 grams of carbs, ended up only putting on fat. I did measurements right after a cut and the only place that got bigger was my gut and belt line, gut got 3 inches bigger and waist got 2 inches bigger, arms, chest stayed the same, forearms and legs got smaller on a three month bulk I should have seen Something change even in three months??? No one food messes with me more than another, just food period is my enemy, I'm really to the point I hate eating at all anymore. I generally only eat 2 meals and one shake now. No more forcing it in and only making myself sick, I'll just stop training if it comes to it. I've played with macros, and calories. At one point it was just so out of hand, 200 g protein, 500-600 g carbs, 250 g fats and between 5000 and 6000 calories at that time I was about 160 pounds. I didn't start gaining again until I added milk back in my diet, really do not like milk and it really is not good for you with all the pasteurization and all that crap. My issue comes down to my energy, I have NONE..... And I mean none!!

 

[FastNHard]

I know you're probably overwhelmed with advice, so I'll give you a little more. None of this is exercise related. After all, you're falling asleep while driving in the middle of the day. Tips about number of reps or exercise selection are probably a low priority right now.

1. Never force feed yourself. When your body's ready to bulk up, it will signal hunger. Eating when you're not hungry won't pack on the muscle. It'll possibly pack on the fat and it's bad for the whole body.
2. Meditate. Try the Headspace app (I don't make money from it. I'm just a customer).
3. Don't obsess over protein. Heresy, I know, but I stopped focusing on it, dumped the protein powders, and it hasn't been to my detriment.
4. Fast on occassion. Your digestion system and entire body needs a break from food from time to time. Drink water and/or tea while you do it. You may lose some weight, but it will probably mostly be water and fat.

You may want to ask a doctor about #4 given your health state. After all, fasting is a stressor, albeit a good one.

Thank you, #1 is so true for me, I used to force it in no matter what, felt like I was on a puking fest, felt like puking all day everyday for several months as I continued to try to push more and more in, ended up not doing a freakin thing but got fatter and never did get used to the volume of food. I've backed off everything, protein included, I think I'm back down to maybe .6 per body pound. The bodybuilding community focuses WAY too much on calories and protein AND carbs. I'm putting on weight ONLY after cutting everything in half or even less than half. Like Friday I only ate 5 whole eggs, 2 protein bars and one chicken breast the entire day. I like fasting, usually feel a little better.

 

[328982]

That's what I was afraid of. Would I be hyper or hypo? My thyroid number is on the higher side, meaning if 0.27-4.20 ulU/ml is normal mine is 3.88.

That is likely to be your TSH level - the measurement of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone in your blood. The higher the TSH level generally the lower the thyroid function, so you are perhaps heading towards hypothyroidism. That would tally with your lack of energy. However, you are still within the normal range (in U.K. the reference range for TSH is 0.35 - 5.5 uIU/mL, bit lower in the USA) so that's unlikely to be having that much effect in itself. It would be called 'subclinical' here and possibly treated with a low dose of thyroxine or just 'wait and see'. I know this because I'm hypothyroid and have been on thyroxine now for a while to boost natural thyroid output. My TSH levels were around 25 on diagnosis and I wasn't feeling great but not really ill. It's often a familial condition and can go with other autoimmune disorders so might be worth seeing an endocrinologist. The one I saw said that people can veer between hypo and hyper states and there may be atypical or confusing presentations. Like you, I don't put on weight easily, which is unusual as weight gain is a typical sign of hypothyroidism. Mind you, I eat quite frugally and exercise most days.

Anyway, not to be creepy but I wonder why you are wanting to 'bulk up' against body type and force feeding yourself to put on weight. Most men would kill for your trim physique. Imo, bulking up is just a systematic way of getting fat and unattractive.

 

[JackDoff]

you tried digestive enzymes to help break down the food? Deliberate overeating is difficult you're fighting against your body's hormonal response to food, when the full the body excretes a hormone (ghrelin I think) to signal to stop the hunger feeling you're trying to push passed this response.

I was eating 1kg of chicken breast a day to gain muscle and believe me it wasn't pleasant. I'd be having another meal with the previous one still sat in my stomach. I made it to 18 stone (252lbs or 114kg) at circa 12% body fat and then maintaining it wasn't easy either. My natural weight is between 220lb - 234lb depending on the time of year, harder to eat big meals during hot summer days so I drift to a lighter weight, my avatar is summer weight at about 224lbs I later dropped a few more pounds of fat before a holiday. Increasing your calorie intake should be done slowly to allow the body to adapt to the extra food.

 

[FastNHard]

That is likely to be your TSH level - the measurement of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone in your blood. The higher the TSH level generally the lower the thyroid function, so you are perhaps heading towards hypothyroidism. That would tally with your lack of energy. However, you are still within the normal range (in U.K. the reference range for TSH is 0.35 - 5.5 uIU/mL, bit lower in the USA) so that's unlikely to be having that much effect in itself. It would be called 'subclinical' here and possibly treated with a low dose of thyroxine or just 'wait and see'. I know this because I'm hypothyroid and have been on thyroxine now for a while to boost natural thyroid output. My TSH levels were around 25 on diagnosis and I wasn't feeling great but not really ill. It's often a familial condition and can go with other autoimmune disorders so might be worth seeing an endocrinologist. The one I saw said that people can veer between hypo and hyper states and there may be atypical or confusing presentations. Like you, I don't put on weight easily, which is unusual as weight gain is a typical sign of hypothyroidism. Mind you, I eat quite frugally and exercise most days.

Anyway, not to be creepy but I wonder why you are wanting to 'bulk up' against body type and force feeding yourself to put on weight. Most men would kill for your trim physique. Imo, bulking up is just a systematic way of getting fat and unattractive.

My number is on the higher side which I guess is lower production like you said. I am still within a normal range according to Doctors, I personally think that number needs to be tightened up if you ask me. My normal might not fit into medical normal. I feel almost ill anymore, so many symptoms I can't even keep up with them all. BUT Dr. says I should feel fine?? According to all my test results. I feel Doctors do not listen to peoples complaints and symptoms, they just go by the charts and say you should feel fine. Makes me mad to no end!! I'm trying to bulk up in muscle, I've always been lean, usually on the underweight side. Day one of me starting to train I was 128/129 pounds.

 

[FastNHard]

you tried digestive enzymes to help break down the food? Deliberate overeating is difficult you're fighting against your body's hormonal response to food, when the full the body excretes a hormone (ghrelin I think) to signal to stop the hunger feeling you're trying to push passed this response.

I was eating 1kg of chicken breast a day to gain muscle and believe me it wasn't pleasant. I'd be having another meal with the previous one still sat in my stomach. I made it to 18 stone (252lbs or 114kg) at circa 12% body fat and then maintaining it wasn't easy either. My natural weight is between 220lb - 234lb depending on the time of year, harder to eat big meals during hot summer days so I drift to a lighter weight, my avatar is summer weight at about 224lbs I later dropped a few more pounds of fat before a holiday. Increasing your calorie intake should be done slowly to allow the body to adapt to the extra food.

I've tried digestive enzymes about a year ago, at that time it didn't do anything but might be worth trying again. Tried prebiotics and am on probiotics now, really there again, neither are working or have worked. I've totally stopped forcing food in, just did a quick estimate yesterday, I'm now eating about 2200 calories and weight is going up.

 

[JackDoff]

I've tried digestive enzymes about a year ago, at that time it didn't do anything but might be worth trying again. Tried prebiotics and am on probiotics now, really there again, neither are working or have worked. I've totally stopped forcing food in, just did a quick estimate yesterday, I'm now eating about 2200 calories and weight is going up.

Your weight is going up? Good outcome then. Don't overdo it just trickle the extra calories in, and don't forget as your weight increases so does your BMR so you'll naturally need those extra calories to maintain the new weight. Set a realistic target, say 1-2lb per week for 8 weeks then maintain that for 4-5 weeks then again up the cals. Bodybuilding isn't a race it's a marathon, Rome wasn't built in a day but they worked on it everyday. Enough cliches lol you seem to have found a sweet spot for growth now exploit it for a while.

 

[TheRob]

I can hardly function anymore, tired is not the word for me anymore, I almost fall asleep driving mid day now. I would need to be referred to an endocrinologist by my Dr. but he just says I should feel fine, my charts look okay.... Not sure what synthroid and cytomel are, I'll have to look them up.

I don't understand you told your dr you are falling asleep behind the wheel and he told you you are fine? that isn't how the medical industry works. I went for a basic checkup and they had me fill out a sleep inquiry thing and if I put too many points in they'd refer me to a sleep study. I know several people that work in medicine from emt/paramedic to nurses, nurse practitioners and full phd's and what you are saying makes no sense. try another doctor or even an urgecare and tell the urgecare dr your primary refused to give you a referral even tho you are dozing off in the middle of the day and falling asleep while driving I PROMISE you can get a referral over that. ((you in the USA right?))