Animosity against fems in the community.

[AdamHenry]

Why the animosity? I can understand if they are not your type and that's okay. But why the hate? I'm partial towards effeminate guys so this puzzles me. Am I alone in this type of thinking? I've read some downright disrespectful and nasty comments about Feminine acting or looking guys. Almost violent sometimes. Homophobic Homosexuals? An oxymoron or a reality? For the record, I identify as Bisexual although I date women exclusively at the moment, but feel a physical sexual draw towards some men. A feeling I may act on some day since I'm now single again. I'm curious to know what characteristics that completely turns most men off regarding effeminate guys. An inquiring mind wants to know.

 

[959101]

huuuuh maybe I don't get this because I'm not actively a part of any gay community but is there really much discrimination against feminine gay guys? I'm super sensitive to femininity so I'm not exaggerating when I say most gay guys I see online or in real life just seem feminine to me, even the ones who are supposedly 'straight acting'. I think it's just an innate gay-dar...Or maybe I just don't see enough gay guys =]..

 

[EdWoody]

There was a post on this very board only yesterday where somebody said outright "I despise effeminate men" - and this was a gay poster. The hatred and sheer hypocrisy was breathtaking.

 

[DavidXL]

The animosity is very unfortunate, because the effeminate ones, in my opinion, made a lot of what has become possible today in gay rights possible. They were the ones who came out first, because they just couldn't hide it in ways that the "straight acting" gays could. The effeminate ones took it on the chin for everyone else and were/are subject to the worst forms of discrimination and hatred in everyday life and were/are more easily subjected to physical violence. I will admit that I am not generally attracted to effeminate men (and not bears either for that matter). But, as someone who has hid all sorts of things, I have a lot of respect for what they went/go through in terms of living open lives (and opening lives for others) and find the animosity deplorable, particularly when it comes from within the LGBT community.

 

[malakos]

My feeling is that the community has been internalizing the contempt it has experienced from the hetero world for so long, and now many of us (myself not included) are seeking to conform to the acceptable image of the stereotypical heterosexual male, while casting out elements that deviate from that image.

 

[demedja]

For me, I don't mind at all if a dude is a little bit feminine. I like women, too so its all good. Besides, I'm gonna be on top anyway. But in a way I get why some dudes say 'no femmes'. They want to have sex with men, not women or men who act like women. Its psychological. Femaleness and femininity will not get a gay man's dick hard. Its just not what they are attracted to. For the same reason that some straight guys LOVE sex with trans people: preference. Perhaps its the various elements of masculinity that turns them in.

Its kinda like when somw white guys who say that they're only interested in hooking up with other white men---its just what they're attracted to. Of couse, by limiting themselves only to white men they are missing out on a LOT of opportunites to have awesome fun. Some will argue that this is racist, but, again, I see it as mere perference.

I think that we should be open-minded enough to give people the right to fuck whoever they want to---as long as its a mutually agreed upon situation.

 

[malakos]

Femaleness and femininity will not get a gay man's dick hard. Its just not what they are attracted to.

That's actually not true. Some gay men do have a preference for femmes.

 

[johnweek1]

I am bi but lean mostly straight. While I love dick, the only guys that tern me on are femms. If I ever dated a guy, it would have to be a femme.

 

[cougartoy]

I've noticed this in the gay community of my country too. Tops are looking for masculine bottoms mainly. Im bi and whn im with a guy i like to be an effeminate bottom. I dont really understand the reason for this segregation

 

[johnweek1]

Agreed with Cougar! Maybe its because I am bi and femm guys remind me of woman but not quite? I feel like there is a level of affection and also attraction that I get from femms. Not sure, but being that I am a "typical male" in that I dont have many effeminate personality traits, I like my partner to have them because I feel like it is the ying to my yang. Female mannerisms, smooth body + a throbbing dick for me to play with? Can't go wrong with that!

Maybe its a bi thing as I am turned on by women too. The complete lack of female traits in masculine men is an immediate turn off for me. Love dick, but not men. Solution, fems!

 

[kiltiesf]

As an older gay man who possesses the traits of a effeminate man: small frame, naturally smooth body, delicate featured, a polished appearance; who's more Will than Jack as a reference, I've encountered my share of discrimination and sneers throughout my lifetime from both gays & straights and yes even from myself. I've chosen to live my life as authentically I as can with no apologies. I've grown into appreciating my unique qualities, as acceptance for non-conforming cis-gender is spreading; as previous posts have stated, a gratitude of thanks is owed to those who paved the way for today's LGBTQ who are allowed to be more open about themselves and their expression.

It's sad that even today with all the rights and protections being afforded to the LGBTQ community (and we have a long way to go still to ensure housing /employment protection) that we still suffer oppression and discrimination from within. We should rally around our brothers and sisters who society says doesn't conform to their standards and uphold, embrace and celebrate their uniqueness and beauty. Until we do, We will continue to bear witness to loneliness, isolation, substance abuse and addiction.

I would love to meet a man who accepted me for me and doesn't expect me to change to conform to his unachievable standards; not living one's life authentically cannot be sustained long-termed without the person crashing and burning - thus result are the broken short-lived relationships and addiction problems.

Stop trying to be somebody else, those parts have already been casted, only you can play who you are.

 

[keenobserver]

Fear. The animosity towards men who are fem has its origins in fear. Growing up, gays were demonized as fem, girly, swishy, weak, weepy, sex addicted seducers of manhood. The worst thing you could call someone was gay or faggot because of the wildly stereotyped images people carried for generations. It was something I wrestled with when coming to terms with myself. I liked men, sexually, but I did not relate to anything else conventionally associated with being gay. I came to understand where self hate comes from.

I myself went to great lengths to make sure I was "not that way." When I first discovered the reality that a gay community existed, the first people I encountered were fem and in some cases queenish. They taught me so much, I could never repay them.

As noted above, these are the great, often unsung heroes of the LGTB movement. Without them I thing we would still, as a community be repressed and marginalized (more than we are). They took the beatings, - over and over. They lost jobs - over and over. They were laughed at, scorned, demeaned and abused, but they stood up, and kept their dignity and kept fighting when that was all that there was to be gained by fighting - the dignity.

Slowly, ever so slowly, the world at large re-examined itself and began to see humans instead of freaks. Slowly still our own community began to rise to the idea of dignity and pride. We, and the world have a ways to go, as the OP notes. But we would not be where we have gotten to today without the fems and queens who stood up and fought, when everyone else was wanting to sit down.

 

[billybones]

There was a post on this very board only yesterday where somebody said outright "I despise effeminate men" - and this was a gay poster. The hatred and sheer hypocrisy was breathtaking.

There's nothing one can do about what people say online, but I do not associate with gay people who verbally disrespect effeminate men. I can not comprehend the animosity some gay men have for these guys. And they are guys. I myself am not effeminate. What I am is pretty apparently gay. We all grew up hiding this aspect of our most innate personality and were afraid of it at some point. Some of us hid it better than others. I was that terribly self-loathing queer that lead the pack in mocking the obviously gay guys in school. Whether we could pull of hiding it or we never tried, we all felt scared and separate from most of the people around us. Then, we all finally had the courage to come out and join a community of other people who went through more or less the same thing we did. And what do so many of us do? We mock, belittle and bash these guys who exhibit more courage by walking out the door every day into an entire world that makes their lives difficult simply because they behave authentically. I might sound militant, but it's something that really bothers me. Maybe I'm making amends for those times when I was younger and shit all over these guys because I knew what I was.

 

[K.Dst]

I know what some jerks say on their Grindr profils or such, but as far as I have experienced, animosity seems to be a strong word.

But yeah, a lot of people get annoyed by effeminate gays, especially on the media, and a lot of those people are gay themselves. Actually most of them, effeminate gays seem to be easier to deal with for straight people.

Part of that annoyance comes from the fact that effeminate gays, dancing half naked at Pride walks, keep alive all the clichés about homosexuals.
But I believe it's more deep than that. I believe that a lot of the people who are annoyed by flamboyant gays are still resentful, because the media coverage of effeminate libertine hays with ripped torsos and provocative minishorts actually hurt when you're Young and unsure about your own sexuality.

Because when you're young, having issues with yourself, not liking your own body and liking too much those of other boys and don't know what you're gonna do with your life, when you turn on the TV and see some kind of pink flamingo, showing off his shaved abs because he's only wearing a speedo and feathers, dancing on high heels at Abba music on the national television coverage of the NYC pride, the first thing that come through your mind is "It's not me, I'll never be like that, it'll never be me". And you hate those same people for making you fear the world will expect you to blend in a model you never choosed. And in some kind, that feeling of being lost and not being able to feel a connection towards anything can lead to tragic consequences.

Sassy gay kill LGBT teens. Of course they never meant for that, but it's sad anyway.
But they help out sassy teens, so banishing them out of ours screens will still make some kids suffer from feeling different, unaccepted, and out of this world.
That's why we need much more diversity when it comes to our representation and image, that's why we must stay away from the biggest clichés but not obliterate them, just showing that it's one way of being yourself in a long long loooooong list of people you could identify with.

 

[billybones]

But animosity is exactly what you're describing.

I understand what you're saying about pride parades, but clichés sometimes exist because they're true. I know you didn't say it, but let's not forget that gay teenagers aren't the only ones that don't fit in. At the root of your point seems to be an appreciation of gender norms based solely on gender. That should be left up to the individual to identify or adhere to for themselves. The responsibility of everyone else is to realize they have the same luxury and not to demean others for the choices they've made. (I'm not talking about orientation here.)

My reaction to the effeminate guys when I was younger was knee jerk. I can't stand Will & Grace. Every other word out of their mouth is 'mo this or Mary that. Same with Queer as Folk. Every other scene is one of the characters talking about, engaging in or exalting the virtues of an existence where sex is the motivating factor in the gay community. I also can't ignore these shows helped to normalizing our presence in culture.

I appreciate the sentiment that there doesn't need to be pride parades or gay-centric TV shows; that basically one day no one will have to make their homosexuality known by coming out. But we don't quite live in utopia yet. And part of realizing that is to realize we can't pick and choose which type of person in our community is acceptable and which is not.

 

[billybones]

And I don't mean to come across like I've got it all figured out. I have my animosity too. I have a lot of resentment towards many of the older guys in our community. I can't wrap my mind around their generation having fought to gain acceptance and equality for us, yet many still have the hardest time living with it. Everything has to be creepy back alley sex.

 

[concupisys]

i don't think the animosity comes from a person being masculine or feminine acting exclusively..... there is definitely something deeper about it, and until the day we all become clones and all look and act exactly the same, it will always be there.... i also see this kind of animosity exist among other sexual orientations, genders, races, religions.... well.... pretty much every kind of creed there is....

whenever i get in to these kinds of discussions with people, i always refer to the show 'fresh prince of bel-air' and the relationship that will and carlton had.... most especially the episode when carlton went to compton on a dare and transformed himself in to the stereotypical black ghetto thug.... that show may have been a lighthearted comedy, but it actually taught us a lot of lessons about stereotypes, acceptance, and courage.....

 

[precummer92]

I've seen the opposite. If you're a 'masculine' or 'straight acting' male in the gay community, a lot of the more feminine gay guys will show some aggression towards you because apparently you aren't being yourself. I find it strange because it seems that gay people must be feminine or they are living a lie when in reality, some gay guys just aren't any different in demeanour to a straight man.

I think everyone has a preference and they're entitled to it but that doesn't mean either side can dictate how the other should act.

 

[augusttaylor]

As a feminine gay I feel that there is a constant attempt to make me more male by people in my own community. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that I am not an acceptable representation of what it means to be a gay man. I have been asked if I talk the way I do on purpose. I have been told that if they wanted to date a woman they would. But I have also met people who have shown such respect because I refuse to act differently. I think being gay is hard, wherever you may come from. But I have never shut myself off, from the positive or negative experiences that occur. So I am aware of the hatred for the femmes, but I am also blessed to have experienced the moments in this world that have made me a strong gay man.

 

[Brian S]

I've seen the animosity towards more feminine gay guys, but I've also seen animosity towards non-feminine gay guys. I've been a target of that in my area. Not in an overwhelming way, but my partner and I live in a smaller city and he's a well-respected, well-liked business owner. He's not femme but one of those guys that you think "Yeeeah, I think he's probably gay." Whereas I'm not. I prefer hard rock and metal, video games, and dark movies. Many of the local gays have actively said that I'm an anomaly and that they wouldn't expect my partner to be with someone so "straight-acting". One particularly weasly fuck even outright told him that he deserved better than me, meaning himself of course. I've also seen skinny twinks bashing bears, and older men referred to as trolls based ONLY on the fact that they're older. There are chiseled crossfit guys in our town that look down on anyone not ripped. Of course, that might have a little to do with crossfit in general, but still. Body image is a big thing that we judge each other on. Unfortunately, being judgmental is a human condition, and crosses all sexual orientation lines.