An impossible, perhaps even dangerous standard

[big_tits4big_dicks]

Wow, Here in LA, I am viewed as sooo fat! I have lost 60 pounds, and my friends tell me I look fab, but I still want to loose more. What I mean I guess is, CA is so fucked up, there is no perfect body. There is to fat, too thin, but rarely a perfect. It messes with everyone's head, I am trying to remember I am 5"4. I don't have to look like a model. But I can dress like one! I think we all need to do what is healthy, and makes us happy with ourselves. But get the hell out of the fashion and beauty industry if you really want that to work.

 

[thetramp]

I began to notice that I was tired all the time, and it took longer to recover from training than it ought to have.

That is exactly what i feel if i don't work out enough or eating bad, it is not much, but just that little more of sleep you need and still not feeling totally recovered the next day, that little more of pain you feel if you do workout and want to perform, and that little more time your muscles need to regenerate, i have never experienced that because of to much workout tho. Still i am at a point where losing weight would be rather bad for my health, i am just a skinny guy by nature who has a slim frame, and i have never been overweight even when i was not so much into sport, it is just a genetic thing for me and my materialism is rather inefficient, meaning that working out a lot can be bad for my body because i have a hard time providing the needed energy. i actually have to force me to eat when i am not hungry, eating lots of pasta for breakfast on gameday eating lots of low fat quark after practice, drinking things i don't like just to provide enough energy to by body, because my materialism does not seem to take enough out of a normal diet. And i realized when i started to work out pretty much daily that i was still losing weight and that would not be healthy for me.

I will say that it take a HIGH level of self-control to either greatly restrict or increase your caloric intake over your body's desires.

He is right, it really is not much fun and needs a lot of self control and discipline.
I usually tell that those guys who say oh great you don't need to count your calories. But i often here, that they would like that better than having to restrict them self that much.

Which brings me to

The guys you know who're taking things to extremes, do you think they would recognize that they are damaging their bodies and are perhaps suffering with a body image issue?

There are some who know they are damaging them self in the long run, but they say are just so competitive, they are not so much about the looks, they wanna reach their potential, they wanna fight for that one step, that one second while they are young often knowing that they will have to pay for that later, but i guess they don't care because it is so far away.

I hardly know guys who are really obsessed with that body image so much that it is their reason to actually go to the extremes, but i have noticed that more people are having that image and would like to reach it, but don't have the discipline and/or time to actually do it, but i see more and more that guys seem to have that desire without realizing that for them it might not be the healthiest thing.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Part of it is an average diet includes more junk calories, like corn syrup, than twenty years ago. So it is harder to maintain a reasonable physique without starving yourself a little. I eat better food now and less food now than when I was twenty and thirty. But I was also much more active then.

Part of the reason for that is all my adventure buddies - who are few and far between in the first place - all have families now. Part of it is I'm just not as internally compelled to be as active as I used to be. Not real sure why on that one. I'm more of a home body than I used to be now that I have a home.

 

[Bbucko]

It cuts toward both extremes. I lift weights, but the bodybuilder physique is also nigh-unattainable. Professionals have been using steroids (including site-based muscle injections) for decades to achieve the desired look.



The big secret that no fitness magazine will tell you: People who are really lean/thin or who are very muscular eat the SAME SHIT all the time. Their diets have little variety and are challenging to maintain (although, obviously, not impossible). I recently decided to gain some mass-- I went from around 200 to 208 by eating ~3300 calories a day. It was tough and sickening. I felt like I was gorging myself. You lose all joy of food doing this. Did I gain some muscle? Yes (and some more fat). Would I do it again? In the winter, maybe, to give myself time to lose some of the fat before summer. I won't say that every thin or VERY muscular guys has an eating disorder--I will say that it take a HIGH level of self-control to either greatly restrict or increase your caloric intake over your body's desires.

It's always been my understanding that it's easier to build muscle when carrying extra weight. When not competing, the pros all bulk up with carbs and protein (the 3000+ calorie diet is by no means unusual, even if it would nauseate me, too) then lose it quickly through near-starvation and dehydration just before competitions. This cannot be healthy, but considering the amount of steroids they use, I doubt that health is much of a priority in their quest for "perfection" (ugh!).

Bbucko- as usual, your honesty floors me. And you look amazing! Mesomorph, huh? Wow.

You'd never believe it now, but throughout my late 20s straight through my early 40s (when the wasting really began) I wore a 42 short suit and needed the trousers rebuilt (not just tailored) from size 36 to size 30. My dress shirts were always 16.5: I was kind of a bulldog. These days I'm a 39 short and a size 15 or 15.5 shirt fits best: so I'm more of a Jack Russell terrier :wink:

That bartender has a look that lets him model and makes him, to me, wholly unattractive (beyond his VERY handsome face). I like men with a little more meat on their bones.

Paul went too far, IMO. When he lost the ass, he lost his appeal to me. His face with the added weight was actually much more striking: softer and less angular. It was actually rather angelic.

IAs far as vascularity goes, I have some in my arms naturally and have also gotten compliments. I don't try to look that way, I just do. I don't desire to purposefully look like I have NO fat or water in my body. Like you said, when I see someone with that look--Unless they are bodybuilder size and about to go onstage, I think--oh, he must be sick with the virus.

I was always vascular in the insides of my forearms, which is a good look. Currently, though, the amount of vascularity on the tops of my forearms, at my temples and running down the insides of my thighs is really more like an anatomy lesson than anything I'd consider hot. But, again, I've abandoned attempting to apply my own standards of desirability in attempting to figure out what remains of my attractiveness to others.

As you and I have actually socialized many times, including an unforgettable trip to Haulover Beach, I especially appreciate your kind words, baby.

Thanks for sharing such an awesome post, stud!

:kiss:

 

[stiffcock]

I fit the type you're describing, I'm about 5'9" 135 or so. I work out (lift) 3 days a week, and only recently began watching my diet. Before I started working out, I could wolf down a buffet of twinkies daily and never gain a pound, I'm just genetically thin. It's very hard for me to gain weight, both fat and muscle. Nowadays I need to take a couple protein shakes daily to maintain my muscle mass (which I've recently put on and am very proud of ).

That said, I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to having an eating disorder. I generally eat whatever I want, I just stay away from sugars, white flour bread items, and obvious fatty stuff. My portions are generally small to medium not because I'm concerned with weight, I just don't eat to get full. I chalk it up more to having positive self-control than to unreasonable self-image worries. I strongly feel that most people eat way too much.

Am I happy? Well, everyday I wake up in my tiny Calvin Klein's, strip down and hop in the shower, where I completely love myself for a half an hour. Then I put on a small white tee and a good pair of low cut, form fitting jeans. I feel incredibly fucking sexy all the goddamn time, I have men and women checking me out quite often, and I'm a complete fucking stud in bed. I wouldn't say my self-esteem is lacking.


It's my understanding that people come in all shapes and sizes. Some are big, some are skinny, just play the hand that your gene's have dealt you and be happy.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

just play the hand that your gene's have dealt you and be happy.

You're the guy everyone loves to hate. The natural ectomorph who is physically and mentally healthy. Now if you got a big dick too, watch out for lightning bolts.

Just kidding. Welcome to LPSG. Even you my son will be fifty someday. :mischievous:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I fit the type you're describing, I'm about 5'9" 135 or so. I work out (lift) 3 days a week, and only recently began watching my diet. Before I started working out, I could wolf down a buffet of twinkies daily and never gain a pound, I'm just genetically thin. It's very hard for me to gain weight, both fat and muscle. Nowadays I need to take a couple protein shakes daily to maintain my muscle mass (which I've recently put on and am very proud of ).

That said, I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to having an eating disorder. I generally eat whatever I want, I just stay away from sugars, white flour bread items, and obvious fatty stuff. My portions are generally small to medium not because I'm concerned with weight, I just don't eat to get full. I chalk it up more to having positive self-control than to unreasonable self-image worries. I strongly feel that most people eat way too much.

Am I happy? Well, everyday I wake up in my tiny Calvin Klein's, strip down and hop in the shower, where I completely love myself for a half an hour. Then I put on a small white tee and a good pair of low cut, form fitting jeans. I feel incredibly fucking sexy all the goddamn time, I have men and women checking me out quite often, and I'm a complete fucking stud in bed. I wouldn't say my self-esteem is lacking.


It's my understanding that people come in all shapes and sizes. Some are big, some are skinny, just play the hand that your gene's have dealt you and be happy.

Well from your description you're not actually the type I'm talking about really, I'm really talking about guys who would otherwise be regular fit guys with good bodies who starve and workout too much in order to be much leaner than they naturally would be. If your leaness is entirely natural and you actually don't have to go to extreme lengths to be the size you are then that's great.

But kudos on being in love with yourself, that's a beautiful thing, and you're right to be proud of your body and recommend that others be proud of theirs :wink:

 

[petite]

I don't have anything to add here. I don't know how men think or what motivates them. I've never dated a man who strictly controlled his diet. The only guys I've dated who have really been into training really hard were the Navy Seal, and his was goal oriented training, such as how fast he can run or swim a certain distance, not vanity (although he looked great) and TheBoyfriend, who eats anything he wants and works out for the fun of it.*

I just wanted to tell you thanks for all the eye-candy!



* There's something wrong with his brain, I'm convinced of it. That just isn't natural. :tongue:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I don't have anything to add here. I don't know how men think or what motivates them. I've never dated a man who strictly controlled his diet. The only guys I've dated who have really been into training really hard were the Navy Seal, and his was goal oriented training, such as how fast he can run or swim a certain distance, not vanity (although he looked great) and TheBoyfriend, who eats anything he wants and works out for the fun of it.*

I just wanted to tell you thanks for all the eye-candy!



* There's something wrong with his brain, I'm convinced of it. That just isn't natural. :tongue:

Oh! You mean the photos in the OP! And here was me thinking "what a supremely irrelevant post" :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

You're more than welcome btw, it's a great blog absolutely chocker with hot boys. :wink:

 

[SirConcis]

At a personal level, I find those images very helpful. Same as when I see nice looking guys at the gym: it motivates me to train and get into shape. While the goals they set may or may not be achievable, it is a goal one should strive to achieve.

Are these guys realistic ? I have seen guys in locker rooms who are close to that. However, I'd say that real athletes tend to be a bit beefier than than. (not talking about baseball/football here, talking about olympic style athletes)

And this is not really that new. Go back to depiction of greek athletes at the olympics and you'll find athletic bodies with similar characteristics (granted, perhaps not as "perfectly lean".)

Looking like that should be a side effect of doing a lot of sports. (as opposed to doing sports to look like that).

Note that depending on what sports you perform, your "target" body style will be different. Cyclists would look different than runners or swimmers for instance.

The BIG difference between men and women "targets" is that men can achieve those targers with lots exercise to reduce body fat and increase muscles. This is healthy. In fact, the ideal male body can't get achieved with diet alone because diet alone won't give you muscles.

With females, it is the opposite. The ideal female model requires diet and some modertation in exercise because too much exercise may reduce the feminine aspect of your body (in the eyes of the model industry). Diet only is not healthy.

 

[NCbear]

Huh. I'm 6'1" and weigh 220 pounds. I wear a 42 long suit jacket, a 17/35 dress shirt, and pants that are 36 x 34.

In a suit, I'm often perceived as "bearish" or "stocky." But when I look at my naked body in a mirror, I see the need to lose the spare tire around the waist and gain some muscle in my upper body (to balance the lower body, which is still muscular after years of soccer and bicycling). But I'm not going to obsess about losing the weight; instead, I'm going to start exercising more. Tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow. :biggrin1:

Will I ever be the willowy model type [translation: skinny geeky guy] that I was when I was in my mid-teens? Well, probably not--and it's not likely I would want to look the way I did then.

(Same height, but 150 pounds. Yes, SEVENTY pounds lighter. In fact, you could count my ribs. I was running between 5 and 8 miles a day and participating in at least four 3-hour soccer practices a week. I could eat ANY amount of food and it melted right off me. I looked like a classic ectomorph, really.)

These days, I look like an adult. Perhaps one who needs to lay off the pasta and eat more salad, but still, an adult. For which I'm grateful. I wanted to fill out some.

Now that I've filled out, it's time to tone up. And THAT, really, is what _I_ am going to be obsessing about--not my food intake, which I plan to keep about the same or slightly less (and spread out in multiple smaller meals during the day).

NCbear (who might even add photos to my profile, at long last: one "before," one "after" :tongue

 

[alx]

It is difficult to define skinny, The guys in the first and second link were not skinny.
To me they are in prime health.

To keep your body fat down to around 10 percent takes alot of dedication when trying to keep your muscle gains.

They eat far more than most people here would, it's just they take into account fat, protein etc...

There is nothing un-normal working out five times a week.

However go to the bottom link, they are skinny. They have no muscle due to lack of eating, and it clearly shows. Even if they are at the same body fat range as the guys in the top links.

 

[FRE]

I don't have to starve myself to prevent weight gain, but I do have to use some judgment. For various reasons, many years ago I stopped eating animal products. I also keep my sodium intake low. However, there have been some changes.

Although I am now 72, my weight has not changed since I was 24. However, my height has gone from 5'10" to 5'9" and my waist has increased from 28" to 31". I'm not happy about it, but apparently there is nothing I can do about it. Even so, I am much more fit than most men my age and I think that I also still look fit. There may be other opinions on that.

There is an epidemic of obesity that includes more than the U.S.A. Probably with a better diet and adequate exercise, most people could avoid the flab that so many people acquire as they age. Of course character is more important than physical appearance, but surely with a bit of self-discipline, many people could look better than they do. Genetics is also a factor and no doubt it is much harder for some people to keep their weight under control than it is for others.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

At a personal level, I find those images very helpful. Same as when I see nice looking guys at the gym: it motivates me to train and get into shape. While the goals they set may or may not be achievable, it is a goal one should strive to achieve.

Are these guys realistic ? I have seen guys in locker rooms who are close to that. However, I'd say that real athletes tend to be a bit beefier than than. (not talking about baseball/football here, talking about olympic style athletes)

And this is not really that new. Go back to depiction of greek athletes at the olympics and you'll find athletic bodies with similar characteristics (granted, perhaps not as "perfectly lean".)

Looking like that should be a side effect of doing a lot of sports. (as opposed to doing sports to look like that).

Note that depending on what sports you perform, your "target" body style will be different. Cyclists would look different than runners or swimmers for instance.

The BIG difference between men and women "targets" is that men can achieve those targers with lots exercise to reduce body fat and increase muscles. This is healthy. In fact, the ideal male body can't get achieved with diet alone because diet alone won't give you muscles.

With females, it is the opposite. The ideal female model requires diet and some modertation in exercise because too much exercise may reduce the feminine aspect of your body (in the eyes of the model industry). Diet only is not healthy.

Let me be clear, and make the point once again. I am the beneficiary of having decided to take my health in to my own hands and I lost 84 pounds of fat in the process and am now regular in my training.

This is not a thread about whether or not its a good thing to exercise and be healthy.

This is a thread about the effects which mass media images have on young men who may be expecting (based on advice similar to yours) to be able to achieve a body type which they simply wont ever be able to achieve because every man's body is different and we have certain restrictions put on our physical development by things such as genetics, our height, hip to waste ratio, the lengths of our limbs etc. The effect this is actually having is promoting the growth in instance of eating disorders which in men are often combined with excessive exercise regimes which are damaging to the body especially when combined with highly restricted eating.

Are you really saying it's healthy, mentally, to strive to be something you physicallly cannot be and ultimately constantly fail to do so? Isn't this the mentality which drives people in to desperate behaviours and pathological spirals or self destruction?

It is difficult to define skinny, The guys in the first and second link were not skinny.
To me they are in prime health.

To keep your body fat down to around 10 percent takes alot of dedication when trying to keep your muscle gains.

They eat far more than most people here would, it's just they take into account fat, protein etc...

There is nothing un-normal working out five times a week.

However go to the bottom link, they are skinny. They have no muscle due to lack of eating, and it clearly shows. Even if they are at the same body fat range as the guys in the top links.

There's nothing abnormal (globally speaking) about billions of men dying from being physically broken by backbreaking manual labour.

A man's body does in fact have limits to the amount of physical exercise it should be doing. If you have an active life and aren't an athlete, then working out 5 times or more a week while obsessively restricting your diet is not in fact healthy.

I'm quite aware of what it takes to get less than 10% body fat, actually I've had less than 6% before so I know what you're talking about. But I also know that I have met dozens and dozens of young men (both professionally and socially) who do cardio excessively and do eat less than they should in order to fit a certain image standard which they think is desirable. That's just not healthy.

I don't have to starve myself to prevent weight gain, but I do have to use some judgment. For various reasons, many years ago I stopped eating animal products. I also keep my sodium intake low. However, there have been some changes.

Although I am now 72, my weight has not changed since I was 24. However, my height has gone from 5'10" to 5'9" and my waist has increased from 28" to 31". I'm not happy about it, but apparently there is nothing I can do about it. Even so, I am much more fit than most men my age and I think that I also still look fit. There may be other opinions on that.

There is an epidemic of obesity that includes more than the U.S.A. Probably with a better diet and adequate exercise, most people could avoid the flab that so many people acquire as they age. Of course character is more important than physical appearance, but surely with a bit of self-discipline, many people could look better than they do. Genetics is also a factor and no doubt it is much harder for some people to keep their weight under control than it is for others.

Right think about what you're saying here for a moment. I start a thread about young men with body image problems and eating disorders based on social and cultural pressures to look a certain way, and what is your response? "There are too many fat lazy people in the world who should just do some more exercise?"

Maybe think about the fact that there may be some young man who saw tihs thread and was influenced in some small way by what he read.

We need to make a clear disntinction between being active + truly healthy, and being obsessive and trying to conform to a physical stereotype which is a fashion. Young men don't need to fit the current editorial or billboard cutout of what a man should look like to be sexy and attractive and happy they need to be doing what is best for their own bodies without regard to some external standard. We all suffer with this, to a greater or lesser degree (granted some of much less so than others), and it's not good.

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Vanity, all is vanity

 

[dj30905]

I completely agree that this can be a rather dangerous standard, but it is also a somewhat complex issue. The media pretty much says that what is "normal" for women is apparently to be really thin and guys have to be thin, but muscular and ripped. The reality to this is that, from a guy's perspective, this isn't necessarily "normal". For guys who are not overweight, but they are of average build, they'll get in the gym and try to get ripped. Those who are already thin will hit the gym to try to bulk up and tone their body. Not all people are capable of having the "perfect" body that is portrayed in the media. This can lead to people starving themselves, or just plain having really low self-esteem. Guys need to be comfortable with knowing that they don't necessarily have to look like a ripped model to be attractive. This kind of portrayal in the media can lead to anorexia among men, a never-ending battle to have the "perfect" body (possibly leading to depression), a lack of confidence that could severely affect a man's ability to find a meaningful relationship, or even, as I've encountered as an EMT, a guy who takes supplements and ends passing out only to find themself severely dehydrated with heat exhaustion in a hospital.

 

[musclebare9]

Guys are constantly bombarded with images of bodies that are lean and muscular. I think back to Saturday morning superheroes and the GI Joes that I used to play with. They all had these huge chests and skinny waists. Today, the fitness magazines and CK billboards blast skinny abs wherever you look.

I was very thin growing up and hated it. I was 6'3" when I graduated high school and weighed 136. I was weak, often depressed and could anything and not make a difference. I ate a large breakfast, morning snack, 3 sandwiches for lunch, afternoon snack, huge dinner with lots of meat and then a before dinner snack. It made no difference. My pants were 28" waist and 36" inseam, almost impossible to find. I don't think that they exist today. I remember seeing Muscle & Fitness magazines with people like Bob Paris on the front back in the 80's and thinking, "I wish".

I started weightlifting and running when I was around 20. I added some weight but wouldn't call it bulking up by any means. I tried weight gain milkshakes and they added a few pounds but it disappeared just as quick when I stopped drinking them. All though my 20's my bodyfat was less than 5%. Many of my friends plumped up after college and they told me that it would happen to me soon but it never did. I reached my 30's and slowed down my eating a bit. I was actually having stomach problems from forcing too much through I think. I continued running and weighlifting with little affect on my weight. For some people, it is possible to maintain very low bodyfat naturally for long periods of time. I found it strange that it was offensive to call someone fat but acceptable to call someone skinny. I still hated to be called skinny.

I am now in my 40's and can still eat whatever I want without much affect. I realize that I should have enjoyed my thinness over the years and not looked at it as a curse. I have a 32" waist and have to admit there are days when I think about dropping to a 30" waist. I don't look as skinny as I used to and it doesn't feel normal. There is a lot of talk about the unhealthiness of obesity but if you do a little research you will see that health risks increase more dramatically for those who are underweight.

When you look at the bigger picture, the US is overweight. We think we are starving if we don't get 3 good meals a day. There are so many in poorer countries that are lucky to get 1 meal a day. There are many in 3-world countries who live healthy lives on much less food than we eat. We would probably call them skinny and malnourished but in all honesty they are very healthy. We just have a fat perspective.

 

[thetramp]

The more i think about it, the more i think it is not so much the ideal body that has changed, it is much rather the availability of that.

Whenever we look at statues or pictures of what people thought was the ideal male body we will see a muscular yet lean man. We find that in early cave paintings, in the remains of the early high cultures, no matter at what part of the world we look (actually i don't know about the far east, but for the early high cultures in europe it is true, as it is for old egypt. And it has not changed so much. If we look what shaped the idea of the ideal body of the western world after the middle ages, we look at Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man and Michelangelo's David. There are of course many more, but i thought i name these because everyone has seen them. IS that standard really so much different from ours today?

Or is it just the availability of that standard that has these consequences. Or at least the illusion of it. And by that i do not only mean the constant confrontation with the ideal through tv and internet where models look like that, but the fact that whenever you turn on the tv you get told that you can look like that if you only work 5 minutes a day if you get that very special device, that every time you walk through the grocery store you see ads that tell you you can look like that if you only would eat their delicious and expensive products. That every time you walk down the street you see a gym and they have a sign telling you that you could look like that standard if you would only take their help. At the same time we are surrounded by everything unhealthy, Stress and laziness make people take a car for any distance and if it is only a thousand foot, the way we work has changed too, more and more we sit still behind a keyboard and screen than being physical active. Also has the classical family changed, for many people there is no wife that is purely a homemaker anymore, and i am certainly glad about that, but it means that the time for cooking has decreased and the food that is cheap and fast available is usually rather unhealthy.
So while the the average lifestyle has become more unhealthy, and makes it harder to achieve a physical standard that is presented to us, we still can not but be confronted with the illusion of the reachability. And there is no scruple for businesses to take advantage of the insecurity of men if there is money in it, keeping that illusion up.
Which leads to millions of failures, unfortunately humans don't react well to failures, and that i think is a big part of the reason why western cultures have trouble with eating disorders, men and women, obesity and underweight.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

you can't starve yourself and maintain muscle mass. the bottom line is if you lear to exercise hit the weights especially and lear to eat right you may not be perfect but you can make remarkable changes in your body. but it take time and effort. everyone wants the magic pill. so the lazy and fat say well thats not attainable. I love it when I hear well I don't look bad for my age and compare themselves to other lazy people. get off your ass and see what you can do. but you have to be tough it isn't easy or happen over night. thats why most people look like crap. it's funny we always have time time to play on the computer or wathc our favorite tv show but when it comes to exercise forget it.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

I see guys like that at the fitness club..with bodies all out of proportion..endomorphism gone rampant..big bulging muscles held up by muscular chicken legs ..trying to emulate cartoon characters

no one does legs they take work and energy. squats and deadlifts are you best friends. learn to love them and they will treat you well.

sounds like a lot of sour grapes here. not everyone will be a mollionare. is it unhealthy to to try or just sit around and be happy with wellfare.

from what i see there aren't too many kids at least boys and for that matter girls too that are excercising them selves to non existence.

remember youll ony be as good as you are today, everyday you get older don't wait until it's too late.