Brokeback Mountain

[Lex]

it was pretty clear to me what he (ennis) said at the end. many people say they can't understand him. did anyone esle have this problem?

This is a testimony of Health doing an AMAZING job of embodying Ennis' apprehension and repression. Health actually said that his job was EASIER in that he could let his own natural discomfort and anxiety come through on screen as part of his character while Jake (Jack) could not. Thw way he swallows all his words when he speaks is the stuff of acting genius.

I didn't notice this, but, from the complete silence in the theatre where I saw it I assumed that everyone in the audience had read the story in advance. So, we all knew what was coming--and that made mroe an even MORE tense and heartbreaking experience.

GoneA--do you have any experience with downloading files via Bit Torrent? I will see if I can get the episode. If I can, I am happy to burn it to CD for you and send it.

 

[GoneA]

This is a testimony of Health doing an AMAZING job of embodying Ennis' apprehension and repression. Health actually said that his job was EASIER in that he could let his own natural discomfort and anxiety come through on screen as part of his character while Jake (Jack) could not. Thw way he swallows all his words when he speaks is the stuff of acting genius.

I didn't notice this, but, from the complete silence in the theatre where I saw it I assumed that everyone in the audience had read the story in advance. So, we all knew what was coming--and that made mroe an even MORE tense and heartbreaking experience.

yeah, i absolutely agree. i can only imagine how it would have felt if I DID read the story!!!

GoneA--do you have any experience with downloading files via Bit Torrent? I will see if I can get the episode. If I can, I am happy to burn it to CD for you and send it.

well, actually i don't have any experience with downloading Bit Torrent files - never even heard of it until you told me, really. but you know, i have a fairly close friend that lives and works in Carpenter, Chicago and works for (or closely with) Harpo, Inc. therefore, getting a copy of the episode won't be SO hard for me. however, if that doesn't work - I DEFINITELY WILL NEED YOU TO HELP ME OUT :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :biggrin1:

 

[quarkGLS]

I finally read this thread all the way through. WOW! :fing02: I am so encouraged by all your reactions to the movie. I saw the movie about a month ago and it is still with me.

I can't wait for the Oscar nominations to come out on Tuesday. I'm predicting there will be many. When that happens, I'm sure the movie will find even wider distribution. :biggrin1:

 

[SR_Schlong_Dong_Silver]

Lovely film, but did anyone find the sex unconvincing?

I mean, the one bloke spits on his cock and then gets straight up the other bloke in the wink of an eye.

I can't help feeling they'd have started out with the old mutual masturbation before trying out something more advanced. And then they'd need something more that spit if they wanted to enjoy themselves.

 

[B_Stronzo]

okay thanx. will do.

*god, i hate i missed that episode, maybe they'll play it again*

GoneA

As I posted in another thread about Mr. Gyllenhaal- I found the Oprah interview very "surfacey" and a bit pandering. From the outset it appeared that both Ledger and particularly Gyllenhaal had to put forth some semblance of revulsion in kissing another man to reinforce their heterosexuality. I realize (from DeeBlackthorne's post on that other thread) that Jake Gyllenhaal's been more prosaic in other (gay sympathetic) publications but his demeanor on Oprah was, in my opinion, simply that of someone trying to reinforce his heterosexuality to his public at large.

For Oprah's part she was (as is always her way with celebrities) cooing and billing and had the distinct manner of a smitten high school girl.

The interview was less than serious and the only real value I found in seeing it was to realize that it's still "de rigeur" to remain in the closet in Hollywood.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Lovely film, but did anyone find the sex unconvincing?

Yes and no.

I mean, the one bloke spits on his cock and then gets straight up the other bloke in the wink of an eye.

Well from a more "butch" standpoint that scene had a certain appeal, yes.

I can't help feeling they'd have started out with the old mutual masturbation before trying out something more advanced. And then they'd need something more that spit if they wanted to enjoy themselves.

From your lips to Ang Lee's vision. I'd have preferred that too but I suspect anything along those lines would have put off an already reticent general audience. In my opinon toning down the sex scenes to virtually "non-sex" was key to the mass acceptance the film's enjoyed.

 

[Lex]

GoneA

As I posted in another thread about Mr. Gyllenhaal- I found the Oprah interview very "surfacey" and a bit pandering. From the outset it appeared that both Ledger and particularly Gyllenhaal had to put forth some semblance of revulsion in kissing another man to reinforce their heterosexuality. I realize (from DeeBlackthorne's post on that other thread) that Jake Gyllenhaal's been more prosaic in other (gay sympathetic) publications but his demeanor on Oprah was, in my opinion, simply that of someone trying to reinforce his heterosexuality to his public at large.

For Oprah's part she was (as is always her way with celebrities) cooing and billing and had the distinct manner of a smitten high school girl.

The interview was less than serious and the only real value I found in seeing it was to realize that it's still "de rigeur" to remain in the closet in Hollywood.

Remember that this Oprah show has come late to the party and that is was still about promoting the movie. There are tons of other interviews where the kiss had been discussed ad nauseum. Jake has said online that he feels that "every guys goes through a phase where they think they like another guy" and that he is flatetred to be conmsidered bisexual. He said that while he has never been attracted to another man, if he were, he would not be afraid of it. What more do you want?

I would not go as far as to say that they mentioned their anxiety to reinforce their heterosexulity. Expecting them to be totally comfortable with something they have possibly never done is a bit much, IMO. Jake would not jump off the cliff for an intense fear of heights. Was he reinforcing his love of the earth by not jumping?

And I am personally more pleased with the "We're two straight men who pushed our limits to make an incredible movie" than for Jake to say, "I'm gay so this came easy." It's called growth. Why are so many people trying to deconstruct their every word and move? They are actors who did amazing jobs bringing a fantastic story to light. Let's not act as if there is something so inherently magnanimous about queer issues that they should be above being uncomfortable for some.

OR

Is this about your belief that Jake is secretly gay?

 

[B_HungSpermBoy]

I read one interview with Heath Ledger where he said that kissing another guy is just kissing. He said that he thought it was a "hang-up" with the main-steam press. He also said that the intimate scenes weren't that big a deal to him, and that he was more interested and concerned with giving the best performance he could.

 

[barron]

I am so encouraged by all your reactions to the movie. I saw the movie about a month ago and it is still with me.

I totally agree. It was an amzing piece of cinema and a wonderful story both on the page and in the screen.

 

[panthera]

Yes and no.



Well from a more "butch" standpoint that scene had a certain appeal, yes.



From your lips to Ang Lee's vision. I'd have preferred that too but I suspect anything along those lines would have put off an already reticent general audience. In my opinon toning down the sex scenes to virtually "non-sex" was key to the mass acceptance the film's enjoyed.

In the short story, Ennis has lots of pre-cum. And I have, when really, really hot, taken a man that fast...as well as been taken that fast. Not often, but it does happen.

 

[Lex]

There was life and anal sex before animal lard, petroleum and silicone. I know more than a few older men that have shared stories about using spit to facilitate anal sex.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I would not go as far as to say that they mentioned their anxiety to reinforce their heterosexulity. Expecting them to be totally comfortable with something they have possibly never done is a bit much, IMO. Jake would not jump off the cliff for an intense fear of heights. Was he reinforcing his love of the earth by not jumping?

No. And your analogy is a bit extreme. I stated my views clearly and I stand by them.

And I am personally more pleased with the "We're two straight men who pushed our limits to make an incredible movie" than for Jake to say, "I'm gay so this came easy." It's called growth. Why are so many people trying to deconstruct their every word and move? They are actors who did amazing jobs bringing a fantastic story to light.

Whoa. First off as I stated earlier I don't think the story's all that "great".

And slow down there. "Growth" is a day late and a dollar short in this selecitively "lesbian is cool" but "gay male is gross" double standard society. I gave credit where credit is due. The 'deconstrucing' thingy applies as well to what you're doing to my 'every word'. It's called opinion. I have one.

Let's not act as if there is something so inherently magnanimous about queer issues that they should be above being uncomfortable for some.

Hugely condescending. They can bloody get over their discomfort as gay actors have since the beginning of the silver screen.

OR

Is this about your belief that Jake is secretly gay?

No. I hope, in fact, he screws his dog. Beyond that the dude seems gay to me.


"Twenty lashes with a wet noodle" for not agreeing with you. I'll live. So will you.

 

[B_Stronzo]

In the short story, Ennis has lots of pre-cum. And I have, when really, really hot, taken a man that fast...as well as been taken that fast. Not often, but it does happen.

Agreed. I only stated the sex scenes were almost not "sex scenes". No one should find the film sexually graphic in any way.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I read one interview with Heath Ledger where he said that kissing another guy is just kissing. He said that he thought it was a "hang-up" with the main-steam press. He also said that the intimate scenes weren't that big a deal to him, and that he was more interested and concerned with giving the best performance he could.

Heath's reaction has been awe-inspiring from the outset. I am impressed with him as a man and as an actor.

 

[Lex]

Stronzo--We don't have to agree and you certainly don't have to take lashes for it.
My post was a bit reactionary and for that I apologize. I was also reading a BM board in another Friefox tab where people are coming with similiar stances.

I guess what I should say is, I wish masses of people would not be uset with a movie and the actors involved when our society is the problem. I thought Jake did a commendable job talking about how he DID have to overcome his own, inherent homophobia which was drilled into him by peers and society. I tend to think of this as a good thing as it points to the real problem--our so-called "cultural norms."

I think anyone who is able to step out of the shadow of racisim, schauvenism, homophobia--should tell about how they did/are doing that. SO many people struggle with it--some minorities, some women, some young queer individuals.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Stronzo--We don't have to agree and you certainly don't have to take lashes for it.
My post was a bit reactionary and for that I apologize.

I think anyone who is able to step out of the shadow of racisim, schauvenism, homophobia--should tell about how they did/are doing that. SO many people struggle with it--some minorities, some women, some young queer individuals.

Thanks. Mine was a bit reactionary too for which I similarly apologize.

And the second point you make is valid. Of course you're right. I simply suspect that I'm tired of having to be the "bigger individual" in all this (necessary as I realize it is to be). What with the "fundie" Christian movement bearing down so directly on gay folks and issues I'm hyper-intolerant just now. Right or wrong I'm just a bit tired of explaining "us" away to the "others".

Thanks for taking the time to respond Lex.

 

[B_HungSpermBoy]

This film has hit me really hard & that's why I started this thread. I'm now just finally understanding what people, who don't fit society's norm about sexuality or emotional needs, have to go through just to be themselves. The reality is that straight people,me included, just take our sexuality for granted and all of society supports our orientation. I mean, every place you look at on the internet or TV or newspapers and magazines, we get to see ourselves being affirmed 24/7. It must be super painful for women and men who love the same gender not to get any affirmation for their lives at all. And on top of that, to be treated badly by society or told that there's something wrong with their love. I think that's what Brokeback Mountain has taught me. I can't believe I haven't understood this before.

I want to wish the best for Stronzo.

Thanks. Mine was a bit reactionary too for which I similarly apologize.

And the second point you make is valid. Of course you're right. I simply suspect that I'm tired of having to be the "bigger individual" in all this (necessary as I realize it is to be). What with the "fundie" Christian movement bearing down so directly on gay folks and issues I'm hyper-intolerant just now. Right or wrong I'm just a bit tired of explaining "us" away to the "others".

Thanks for taking the time to respond Lex.

 

[oralguy281]

HungSpermBoy, THANK YOU for starting this thread. Also, thanks to each of you who spoke about the deep emotional impact from this movie. I saw it twice, the first time in NYC; as others wrote it was a completely packed, but an interestingly mixed crowd. I was taken by surprise that there were so many hetrosexual couples there. It was early on in the release and I just didn't expect to see that. That was just the beginning of the effect I felt from the movie. I was deeply moved by this movie. I am gay and lived most of my life (I'm 41) hiding it. I didn't get married or have children, but I could feel the pain of having these feelings for someone that could not be fully expressed.
In discussions with friends, I had a number of questions that were unanswered. So, when another friend wanted to see it, I went along again. This time it was in Chicago. The theater was sold out again. The second time I was able to pay more attention to the sublty, the expressions, the incredible scenery.
As with many of you, I still think about the movie and read both the positive and negative reviews on it. I want to understand if others were as affected, but if not, why. I still think I'm searching for why it has had such a great effect on me. Recently, I read a article on the movie. Great review. But what really gave me pause was the article said we focus on the fact that this movie was about love, but it is also very much about being isolated and alone. At the end, Ennis was alone. He isolated himself from everyone. Even almost not attending his daughter's wedding. He couldn't share his feelings with anyone, not even himself. I think that is some of what I felt I was missing. Ennis was a loner. He shacked up with that waitress, yet we see him sitting alone in the diner eating his pie. I felt the love that Jack wanted; I felt the fear that Ennis had and also the loneliness and isolation he was living in his life.
Again, thank you all for your candid responses as I continue the search for answers to questions in the movie and also for answers as to why this has had such an emotional and psychological impact on me personally.

 

[Freddie53]

I finally read this thread all the way through. WOW! :fing02: I am so encouraged by all your reactions to the movie. I saw the movie about a month ago and it is still with me.

I can't wait for the Oscar nominations to come out on Tuesday. I'm predicting there will be many. When that happens, I'm sure the movie will find even wider distribution. :biggrin1:

And mass campaigning by the fundie religious right (which usually isn't religious and cerrtainly isn't right) to boycott the film, the studio etc. They will really shit bricks when one of the major networks buys the rights to broadcast it.

There is this group of people hell bent on forcing what they believe to be forced on others. Choice is a bad word for them. Please don't confuse them with mainline Christianity which has a total different philsophy.

I plan to see the movie if it ever comes to fundieland where I live in a definite minority.

 

[quarkGLS]

Not to worry. I could never mistake the fundamental religious right with mainstream Christianity. Most of them passed judgement on the film without ever having seen it. Closed minds are truly tragic.

With 8 nominations, hopefully the movie will hit a town near you soon. If not, the cable airing and/or DVD release won't be far away.

Can't wait until more people get the chance to see the movie and weigh in with their views.