Buddy tugging

[IntactMale]

They're out there and it's more common than you realise. It's pretty clear you're coming from a heteronormative, homophobic and religious puritanical perspective.

That's not fair. I don't exist, and haven't existed in an environment, that is heteronormative, homophobic, or puritanical, and yet I've never just stumbled on another person sleeping naked and been able to tickle their genitals with a feather. Maybe instead of pointing out that someone else lives in a oppressive of repressive environment you should be more understanding that maybe you exist in something that is on the other end of that spectrum.

If a stranger walked up and grabbed my dick while I was getting changed in a locker room, I would be shocked and would probably freeze up. Later when I had the ability to process what had happened I would probably be angry that someone had thought it was okay to violate me in that way. I imagine a woman would feel similarly if I walked past her and grabbed her ass without any kind of invitation.

 

[1241586]

Absolutely and unapologetically yes. I am straight and not ashamed to admit it.

There's no such thing as a totally straight person. Research it.

In other words, I don't want to have my penis touched by a man. Straight = homophobic.

We're talking non sexual touching here. You're stating any touch of the penis by another person is automatically sexual.

If having personal boundaries and exercising my right to choose who touches my body makes me puritanical, then I suppose I am.

We're not talking about consent and body autonomy and your choice and agency to decide and choose who you want to touch you. It's the mindset behind it.

I think you're wrong. Body shame and body dysmorphia are exacerbated and increased because we have decided to eliminate boundaries. The problem isn't that people keep themselves covered. It's that people are pressured to expose their sexuality in every way, shape, and form. We, as a culture, admire sexual attractiveness almost as much as we admire money. The competition to be sexy, to push the boundaries, to see how far you can take it is incredible and it gets harder with each generation.

The vast, vast majority of us can never look like ripped fitness models no matter how hard we try. The unstoppable barrage of hot sexy bodies simply batters people into dysmorphia and shame. If we went back 100 years, would we find people with body dysmorphia? Doubtful there would be more than a handful. (and don't twist that into my saying that we need to revert to what society was 100 year ago. Let me put it this way: All magic comes with a price, deary. )

100 years ago men were commonly naked around each other in many areas of their life and this happened right up until the late 70's in the United States and even happens today in some European countries.. Look up physical intimacy and bonding in the Victorian era to see how physical affection and intimacy was the norm amongst close male friends.

Sexual violence will always exist because it's about power and control and anger. It's not about fulfilling sexual needs. If a guy needs sex he can commit a victimless crime and throw the tissues away afterward.

Sex + power = sexual violence. There's more to it than just power, gratification and the urge to fulfil a need comes into it as well.

Anyway, you can go ahead and tug on your friends' dicks and circle jerk if it makes you feel more connected to each other. I won't be there because.....I just won't.

I certainly will. You won't be there because you won't be invited nor given consent to engage in physical contact in any form.

 

[1241586]

That's not fair. I don't exist, and haven't existed in an environment, that is heteronormative, homophobic, or puritanical, and yet I've never just stumbled on another person sleeping naked and been able to tickle their genitals with a feather. Maybe instead of pointing out that someone else lives in a oppressive of repressive environment you should be more understanding that maybe you exist in something that is on the other end of that spectrum.

If a stranger walked up and grabbed my dick while I was getting changed in a locker room, I would be shocked and would probably freeze up. Later when I had the ability to process what had happened I would probably be angry that someone had thought it was okay to violate me in that way. I imagine a woman would feel similarly if I walked past her and grabbed her ass without any kind of invitation.

We're not talking about strangers touching here, we're talking about physical contact between friends where there is mutual and ongoing consent.

It's all about context.

Yet your mindset is based in heteronormativity, homophobia, biphobia and religious puritanism. They're the foundations of western Anglo based cultures (e.g. U.K., United States, Australia, New Zealand, Canada) and influence our perspective on all the relationships and emotional and physical relationships we have we other people.

 

[1241586]

This should read :

We're not talking about the removal of consent and body autonomy. It's always your choice and agency to decide and choose who you allow to touch you. It's the mindset behind it which is puritanical.

 

[IntactMale]

We're not talking about strangers touching here, we're talking about physical contact between friends where there is mutual and ongoing consent.

It's all about context.

Yet your mindset is based in heteronormativity, homophobia, biphobia and religious puritanism. They're the foundations of western Anglo based cultures (e.g. U.K., United States, Australia, New Zealand, Canada) and influence our perspective on all the relationships and emotional and physical relationships we have we other people.

I disagree. First because you are telling me what my mindset it and you are describing it inaccurately. Look at my posts on this site, I'm not homophobic, biphobic, or a puritain. None of this has to do with a perspective other than my relationship with other human beings. I don't want other humans touching me without my consent. That goes for patting me on the back and stroking my cock. You don't have the right to touch me when I don't want you touching me. I'm sure the guys in this gif don't see it this way, one of them set up the camera. But if this happened to me it would be a very disturbing occurrence and I couldn't see it as anything other than a violation.

The homophobic, biphobic, purtain environment you claim I grew up in included a lot of gay people in close proximity to me. None of them stroked my cock without an invitation.

Again, what is the different between this and me grabbing a womans ass on the street who has given me no indication that she wants that kind of attention?

 

[1241586]

I disagree. First because you are telling me what my mindset it and you are describing it inaccurately. Look at my posts on this site, I'm not homophobic, biphobic, or a puritain. None of this has to do with a perspective other than my relationship with other human beings. I don't want other humans touching me without my consent. That goes for patting me on the back and stroking my cock. You don't have the right to touch me when I don't want you touching me. I'm sure the guys in this gif don't see it this way, one of them set up the camera. But if this happened to me it would be a very disturbing occurrence and I couldn't see it as anything other than a violation.

The homophobic, biphobic, purtain environment you claim I grew up in included a lot of gay people in close proximity to me. None of them stroked my cock without an invitation.

Again, what is the different between this and me grabbing a womans ass on the street who has given me no indication that she wants that kind of attention?

Read between your lines.

Firstly I'm not talking about random strangers, I'm talking about contact between friends. And there are many friends out there who have an ongoing consensual agreement to allow their friends to touch them any time and if they say 'not now' for their friend to stop (which doesn't automatically mean an out right rejection or for it to never happen again).

If you choose for all physical contact only to happen with your explicit consent, that's your unequivocal right and prerogative. Yet it's still based on the culture and the environment you've been conditioned and influenced by.

Also just because you grew up around gay, bi, transgender or even people of other racial backgrounds doesn't automatically mean you're not homophobic, biphobic, transphobic or racist.

Some cultures contact between people is the norm and expected. Some have strict rules around physical contact. Every human has different rules of consent when it comes to their body. There also needs to be context when it comes to consent and it's undeniably influenced by culture, history, politics, religious beliefs etc...

 

[IntactMale]

Read between your lines.

Firstly I'm not talking about random strangers, I'm talking about contact between friends. And there are many friends out there who have an ongoing consensual agreement to allow their friends to touch them any time and if they say 'not now' for their friend to stop (which doesn't automatically mean an out right rejection or for it to never happen again).

If you choose for all physical contact only to happen with your explicit consent, that's your unequivocal right and prerogative. Yet it's still based on the culture and the environment you've been conditioned and influenced by.

Also just because you grew up around gay, bi, transgender or even people of other racial backgrounds doesn't automatically mean you're not homophobic, biphobic, transphobic or racist.

Some cultures contact between people is the norm and expected. Some have strict rules around physical contact. Every human has different rules of consent when it comes to their body. There also needs to be context when it comes to consent and it's undeniably influenced by culture, history, politics, religious beliefs etc...

But this thread is asking for an opinion. Mind is that this isn't acceptable, I don't understand why that would even be questioned.

But you are making up a lot of things about this scenario. First, how do you know the relationship between the two people in the gif. Even if you do know the situation I have only expressed my opinion about how I would feel if this happened to me.

I don't think consent for contact with my body is dependent on the culture in which I was raised. If I were raised in a culture where its expected that everything gets to put their toes in my mouth, and I don't want that to happen, would I be wrong to oppose that? How about if I were a woman in an environment were it was deemed normal to have my genitalia grabbed at the whim of someone else. I'm pretty sure we agree these are not okay. So why would it be okay when its about my penis.

I understand that growing up in that environment doesn't mean that I'm not those things, but you've taken a really sharp turn here. Now it's not that I am from a culture in which these things are present, now you are accusing me of being these things, based on nothing but the fact that I don't want a stranger to grab and stroke my penis without my consent. That's a disgusting defense.

Yes, some cultures have different approaches to things. The question was about individuals opinions, not a judgement of a culture. I suggest rephrasing this question and posting it in the Women's Issues section to see what kind of response is received there.

 

[marriedasian]

i'd be cool with it. as long as it was socially acceptable as a form of inter-personal greeting otherwise it would just be weird. hell, anything that gets close to our sexual values is deemed weird so if everyone in the village is game, then i'm game!

can we have boobie-tugging too?

 

[wildcat16]

Consider the graphic. What would be your reaction to living in a culture where this kind of friendly acknowledgement was both normal and positive?

View attachment 1386939

I have had a guy or two do that, teammates and in a team locker room though. Most just because you are standing there with it on display, once or twice it was a hard yank to be an asshole.

 

[wildcat16]

Words like:
Camaraderie
Loyalty (you earn loyalty day- by- day)
Trust (best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them)
A tight team (it's the team with the athletes who play best together that win)

I agree with all these, the most important though may be trust. They would be doing it to get some kind of reaction out of you. My normal reaction when I see anyones hand go towards my crotch is "nut shot" and I would go into protect mode. I don't worry about that now like I would have in younger years, I know the guys are just as playful and want to get that reaction, but I also trust they are not going to Hurt me (at least not permanent damage, lol)

 

[Das_Boot]

No one should be touching anyone without consent. If you make some verbal or non verbal signals to someone giving them the go ahead then both people agree that some dick touching is going to take place. They're are so many people would be comfortable that no one should harass the people who don't. But if someone grabs my cock without consent in a public place they should be ready for whatever consequences take place because they don't know me.

 

[87275]

Coming from a Northern European country that has quite a laidback attitude towards nudity.. I would get very uncomfortable if I experienced this kind of behaviour in a locker room. People can be open with nudity without feeling the need to violate anyone’s personal space. Grabbing someone’s dick is reserved to intimate relationships or some dark rooms (with the possible exception of being extremely drunk with close friends)

 

[622675]

Where on Earth is a guy going to catch a buddy sleeping in the nude? Nowhere I've ever been, that's for sure.

They're out there and it's more common than you realise.

twoton, great reply. It clearly describes where your cultural sensitivities are with regard to your personal privacy zones. The post was not intended to uncover a right or wrong position, however, your comment(s) may have the secondary impact of suggesting an over-all attitude on personal relations. Perhaps reveals something new to think about.

My guess is that if there were 100 responses to the post and the results were to be put on a graph, it would end up looking like a “U”. A large number of guys would share your reserved positions while others would be inclined to favor a much more inclusive / relaxed relationship among selective groups. Chances are there wouldn’t be too many guys in the middle trying to figure out if they are OK with the idea or not.

On the other hand it appears that Asher77 has some experience in bonding with other folks in a trusted group. And along with the rest of the group he has greatly relaxed his personal boundaries and has found new and acceptable ways to show connection and acceptance.

I may not be as relaxed as Asher77, but would likely find myself on his end of the chart, at least where the issue of relaxed (anatomical) boundaries is measured in trusted groups.

It would take a lot of work to figure out what makes us feel and think the way we do. Personal experiences would likely play the biggest role.

Here are 7-8 events in my life that resulted from sharing a relaxed connection with a trusted group. Every one of these events left the group more positively bonded through intimate humor and experience. These are but a very few examples and from what I can determine are not that unusual. They are not at the “buddy tug” level, but have likely moved me in that direction.

---I have been on a hunting lease where swimming nude was common and followed by drying off in the sun together. (Nearly all guys were straight or I didn’t know)

--- I have gone nude swimming with college friends at nude beach/park. (Nearly all my group straight or didn’t know) Most everyone got a hard on at one time or another.

--- Had friend on hunting lease leave cabin nude in order to get a shot in at a deer feeder. Put on show for all.

---Had friends in college (and HS) who would see other guys in the group with an erect nipple (like on a cold day) and give it slap. Pain!

---Lived in a college dorm where just about everyone went to and from the shower nude, often in groups and may stop to visit at any open door.

---Lived in a rooming house with 6-7 other guys. Looking out kitchen window would provide private view of back yard. If one of the guys caught you looking out the window, you might get a show (could be front or could be back)

---Had five guys on a hunting lease (three married) who got naked and hard in order to satisfied a bet that they could (or could not) open a certain door lock with their hard dick.
(Sorry no pic)

--- Don’t have a picture to illustrate sleeping dicks being tickled with a feather duster but it occurred in college dorm rooms and military barracks. Usually guys sleep face down, but some sleep with dicks up. Tickling butts with a feather duster is almost as much fun. Group claps when guy wakes up.

 

[1069762]

Consider the graphic. What would be your reaction to living in a culture where this kind of friendly acknowledgement was both normal and positive?

View attachment 1386939

In a culture where this was normal and positive, none of us would think anything of it because it would be normal to us. If you grow up with something being part of your culture you rarely think of that thing as being strange or weird.

 

[622675]

In a culture where this was normal and positive, none of us would think anything of it because it would be normal to us. If you grow up with something being part of your culture you rarely think of that thing as being strange or weird.

So true. But if it was not part of your culture, how would you feel about being part of such a culture or group?

 

[1069762]

So true. But if it was not part of your culture, how would you feel about being part of such a culture or group?

I was raised in a multi-cultural environment (thanks to being in a military family) so I was constantly introduced to new cultural ideas and learning to adapt to them. Because of that, were I to find myself in a culture where this sort of activity was normal I would adapt and go along with it. I wouldn't start touching people that way back home, but while in the culture where this is normal I'd be fine with it.

 

[1241586]

I was raised in a multi-cultural environment (thanks to being in a military family) so I was constantly introduced to new cultural ideas and learning to adapt to them. Because of that, were I to find myself in a culture where this sort of activity was normal I would adapt and go along with it. I wouldn't start touching people that way back home, but while in the culture where this is normal I'd be fine with it.

Similar here. I actually have observed men from collective cultures have lower personal boundaries with each other when it comes to nudity and non-sexual physical intimacy.

 

[Countryguy63]

Would depend on the circumstances and where it was.
I'm a man that enjoys man on man contact, but if it was in the locker room at the gym, it would probably make me very uncomfortable.
However, I go to pool parties where everyone usually ends up nude, and it's nothing to have someone walk by and give my cock a playful tug. Totally ok in that instance.

 

[LilJock]

What would be your reaction to living in a culture where this kind of friendly acknowledgement was both normal and positive?

Most responses so far have assumed our current culture and sensibilities, where cock tugging is not normal and positive. If we lived in a culture where it was both normal and positive, then usually we'd have no negative reactions whatsoever. It would be as common-place as shaking hands, high-fiving, or a pat on the back. Now there are some who have trouble with these actions -- germaphobes, for instance -- so, similarly, a few might be bothered by a cock tug, but they'd be in the minority. Kinda weirdo. "Can you believe it? He gets bothered by a friendly wiener pull! Weird!"

It's all what you're used to. In some cultures, mixed saunas and toilets are the norm: in the U.S., not. The English were appalled by what to them seemed erotic depictions in Indian religious iconography; Ghandi thought it shocking that Christians ate their god! (Communion) Similarly, the erotic art found in the ruins of Pompeii were for a long time locked away in a Secret Museum in Naples (where they still reside); the Romans had them on display in their homes. Obviously, the Romans had a different viewpoint on what is obscene. Who knows? The Romans in old Pompeii might have considered it quite obligatory to greet their male guests with a friendly cock tug. The prudish-at-heart should not venture onto time machines!

 

[622675]

Obviously, the Romans had a different viewpoint on what is obscene.

Agree//

So at this point, I would like to restate my original thread position. I would like it to read more along the line of,

“Would you be OK in today’s culture if you were part of a group that used a buddy tug gesture where this act showed acceptance, trust, and solidarity”?
=============

Apparently there are many things about the Romans that we don’t understand. It’s a surprising situation considering how much we owe to that culture. Historians keep telling us that we would need to “stand in their shoes” and see the world as they did.

Here is one of those interesting artifacts from Roman history. It appears to demonstrate the conflicts that exist between the individual (or culture) and his sex drive.

It would be very interesting to hear how polite Roman society freely discussed this issue.


Tintinnabulum-Fund_in_Herculaneum