Choosing your religion

B_becominghorse

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Not to mention idiocy...:rolleyes:

Oh, Miss HAZEL, I opened up my Ignore Pandora's box, and there you wuz, just a-dippin' y'all's snuff on the front poarch down the-ah in Tex-assss...

Your religion is Lesbianism, you just wish you wuz like Scah-lett O'Hara and me, I knows that is so..
 

Axcess

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I'm not religious but if I have to choose a religion , I would choose Buddhism. I don't believe in a creator god and I don't believe in any dogma that's why I would choose Buddism.
 

Phil Ayesho

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buddhism has dogma.

The universality of suffering...
personal responsibility for suffering
the eightfold path
the manifestation of karma
the transmigration of souls
the wheel of life
enlightenment and nirvana
 

Axcess

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buddhism has dogma.

The universality of suffering...
personal responsibility for suffering
the eightfold path
the manifestation of karma
the transmigration of souls
the wheel of life
enlightenment and nirvana
Most of the things that you listed aren't really dogmas.

The universality of suffering isn't a dogma . That's a fact that we can see from ourselves.

The personal responsability of suffering . I don't see how that's a dogma.

The eithtfold path is a suggested method to end suffering . Blind faith in Buddhism isn't encouraged.

The Manifestation of karma .
That could be interpreted as a dogma . Karma in reality means action , karma is the law of cause and effect.

Transmigration of souls. In buddhism unlike Hinduism the belief of a eternal inmutable self or eternal soul is rejected.

The wheel of life , enlightement and nirvana could be interpreted as dogmas so I give you that.
 

visualalert

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Agnostic.

Once fancied myself an atheist but realized that requires me to hold that my own powers of reason are infallible, which strikes me as pretty cocky (not to mention dogmatic).

Nothing against atheists, but many seem as devout (sometimes even as evangelical) as any fundamentalist.
 

Phil Ayesho

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I don't agree to the universality of suffering. The statement that it is unequivocally true in the face of other opinions is the definition of a dogma...

Personal responsibility.... buddhism teaches that suffering is caused by our OWN desires and expectations, and that we must dedicate ourselves to taking responsibility for our own suffering.
Taken to its extreme.... if you are being tortured... your suffering is rooted in your own desire to NOT be tortured...

If you had no desire or expectation either way... your suffering would cease.
buddhist monks prove this dogma my lighting themselves on fire from time to time.
That suffering is entirely self generated is a dogmatic belief.


The eightfold path is cited as THE path to enlightenment... this is no different than Christians saying you get to heaven by doing thus and so...


In Buddhism Karma does not mean cause and effect... Karma is a magical form of moral momentum that you build up THRU your actions...
And Karma manifests as the direction you move in when you are reborn... that is... the Karmic momentum you generate in life carries thru to your next life and defines your position and challenges in that next life.

In this sense the buddhist idea of karma is functionally no different than the christian idea of heaven or hell... it is a punishment or reward meted out to you after death as consequence of your behavoir.


The idea that actions you take today will affect you tomorrow is NOT karma.
(although ever since Yoko Ono coined the term "instant karma" that is what most westerners mistakenly think karma means)

Transmigration.... you claim the eternal self is rejected... well, you are HALF right.
Buddhism CLAIMS that the goal of all living souls is to escape the wheel of life, to escape the cyclic re-birth into suffering by attaining non-being.

But you will note that, without a shred of evidence, they claim that you are reborn as many times as it takes to accomplish this task.

So it rings as disingenuous... "oh please let me achieve non-being... but not THIS time around... I get to come back THIS time, don't I?

In this sense, even though Buddhism rejects the idea of a god... it still fullfills the primary function of all religions...
it offers you a dodge around death.

Because this idea of transmigration was invented by human beings.... it is clearly a reaction to the fear of death... the horror of oblivion...
In buddhism, you are promised... as long as you fear death, as long as you desire to live, you have still not attained enlightenment and you are guaranteed to be re-born.

So its as dogmatic as it gets... the only substantive difference between buddhism and judeo-christian religions is that buddhism does not have a personal and pro-active God...
It sees all human souls as facets on the diamond of the divine.

In that sense I think its closer to the truth than god based religions... and I think its useful for folks to try and realize how much of their own suffering is self generated.... ( not ALL but a good deal)
And I think meditation and other outgrowths of buddist tradition are hugely valuable and effective at re-organizing the human mind to be more compassionate and less fearful....

All in all I would rate buddhism way way way above any god based religion in terms of its ability to actually transform human behavior for the better....

but its still grounded in dogma.
And its still a religion.


The biggest difference between taoism ( what put the "zen" in zen buddhism) and buddhism is one of attitude.

Buddhists see life as suffering.
Taoists see life as ecstatic. Even suffering is better than the nothing of oblivion...
And more... that some measure of suffering is crucial to even being able to experience joy.


The Buddhists masters couldn't wait to get off the wheel of life...
Taoists masters were the ones trying to figure out how to live forever.

I prefer taoism because of its optimism... because it sees life as the essence of everything that is.
 

Principessa

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Agnostic. ~ O
nce fancied myself an atheist but realized that requires me to hold that my own powers of reason are infallible, which strikes me as pretty cocky (not to mention dogmatic).

Nothing against atheists, but many seem as devout (sometimes even as evangelical) as any fundamentalist.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us! I agree, I didn't realize until now, just what it was about atheists that bothered me and you hit the nail on the head. :cool:

I don't want everybody to be my religion; because I know it's not perfect. Yet to say that you don't believe in anything at all is truly the utmost in cockiness. Also, the few atheists I have encountered in real life have been neither happy nor content. I believe that is where religion & faith come in to play.

I'm an ex of a religion I won't name.
Now I'm into philosophy because, in my previous religion, questions were never permitted.
:tongue: That's a dead give away for Catholicism! LOL Were you afraid we'd tell the Pope? :confused:

I'm a member of the American Baptist Churches-USA, that just happens to be in the South. (not to be confused the Southern Baptist Convention)
I understand the importance of the differences between the two conferences; but I doubt many others here do. Would you like to explain it for us?


I've been thinking about joining The Church of the Perky Attitude, because they serve cocktails after their services.
tee hee hee in the South we call those Whiskeypalians. :biggrin1:
 

Axcess

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I don't agree to the universality of suffering. The statement that it is unequivocally true in the face of other opinions is the definition of a dogma...

Personal responsibility.... buddhism teaches that suffering is caused by our OWN desires and expectations, and that we must dedicate ourselves to taking responsibility for our own suffering.
Taken to its extreme.... if you are being tortured... your suffering is rooted in your own desire to NOT be tortured...

If you had no desire or expectation either way... your suffering would cease.
buddhist monks prove this dogma my lighting themselves on fire from time to time.
That suffering is entirely self generated is a dogmatic belief.


The eightfold path is cited as THE path to enlightenment... this is no different than Christians saying you get to heaven by doing thus and so...


In Buddhism Karma does not mean cause and effect... Karma is a magical form of moral momentum that you build up THRU your actions...
And Karma manifests as the direction you move in when you are reborn... that is... the Karmic momentum you generate in life carries thru to your next life and defines your position and challenges in that next life.

In this sense the buddhist idea of karma is functionally no different than the christian idea of heaven or hell... it is a punishment or reward meted out to you after death as consequence of your behavoir.


The idea that actions you take today will affect you tomorrow is NOT karma.
(although ever since Yoko Ono coined the term "instant karma" that is what most westerners mistakenly think karma means)

Transmigration.... you claim the eternal self is rejected... well, you are HALF right.
Buddhism CLAIMS that the goal of all living souls is to escape the wheel of life, to escape the cyclic re-birth into suffering by attaining non-being.

But you will note that, without a shred of evidence, they claim that you are reborn as many times as it takes to accomplish this task.

So it rings as disingenuous... "oh please let me achieve non-being... but not THIS time around... I get to come back THIS time, don't I?

In this sense, even though Buddhism rejects the idea of a god... it still fullfills the primary function of all religions...
it offers you a dodge around death.

Because this idea of transmigration was invented by human beings.... it is clearly a reaction to the fear of death... the horror of oblivion...
In buddhism, you are promised... as long as you fear death, as long as you desire to live, you have still not attained enlightenment and you are guaranteed to be re-born.

So its as dogmatic as it gets... the only substantive difference between buddhism and judeo-christian religions is that buddhism does not have a personal and pro-active God...
It sees all human souls as facets on the diamond of the divine.

In that sense I think its closer to the truth than god based religions... and I think its useful for folks to try and realize how much of their own suffering is self generated.... ( not ALL but a good deal)
And I think meditation and other outgrowths of buddist tradition are hugely valuable and effective at re-organizing the human mind to be more compassionate and less fearful....

All in all I would rate buddhism way way way above any god based religion in terms of its ability to actually transform human behavior for the better....

but its still grounded in dogma.
And its still a religion.


The biggest difference between taoism ( what put the "zen" in zen buddhism) and buddhism is one of attitude.

Buddhists see life as suffering.
Taoists see life as ecstatic. Even suffering is better than the nothing of oblivion...
And more... that some measure of suffering is crucial to even being able to experience joy.


The Buddhists masters couldn't wait to get off the wheel of life...
Taoists masters were the ones trying to figure out how to live forever.

I prefer taoism because of its optimism... because it sees life as the essence of everything that is.


To reject the universality of suffering is clearly to be blind . Life isn't all suffering sometimes we have good times but sometimes we have bad times . Several kinds of suffering exists mental and physical. We don't have to be a Buddhist to realize that many people in the world suffer and we eventually will suffer too if we are not suffering right now.

In buddhism is stated that our suffering and the collective suffering is caused by ignorance and attachment. Karma isn't a magical world , Karma literally means action.

Karma isn't a reward and punish system by a divine judge . The idea of karma is that negative actions produce suffering and good actions produce happiness . There is a big misconception in Buddhism by many people . Many people think that buddhism is against desire . The desire to became enlightment , the desire to help others and the desire to end suffering are examples of good desires . The most correct word to negative or ignorant desires is to act with ATTACHMENT.

Buddhists don't believe that humans have eternal souls , what we identify as an I is the sum of aggregates .

I think that you should read more about Buddhism before commenting on it because you have like many people in the nonbuddhist countries several misconceptions about it . To disagree in something is VERYGOOD but to do that we must get educated the best we can in a topic. I said this because you wrote several misconceptions on Buddhism and posted them as facts about this religion .

You said in your post that buddhists believe in eternal souls and reincarnation but in reality they don't believe in eternal souls and instead they believe in rebirth . Rebirth and reincarnation are similar but not the same thing.

You claim that karma concept in Buddhism isn't cause and effect when it is .
Buddhist and Hinduism understanding of Karma isn't necessary the same.
In Buddhism the Karma concept is cause and effect but in relation to morality and mental intention.

Buddhism is a very vast and complex subject to discuss.
 

whatireallywant

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Agnostic.

Once fancied myself an atheist but realized that requires me to hold that my own powers of reason are infallible, which strikes me as pretty cocky (not to mention dogmatic).

Nothing against atheists, but many seem as devout (sometimes even as evangelical) as any fundamentalist.

I've noticed this about "devout" atheists too! :biggrin1:

I grew up going first to a Baptist church, then to a Pentecostal church. I left the church (both of 'em!) at age 17 because of their sexism and repression.

Was agnostic (or maybe atheist?) for many years.

I still consider myself agnostic but go to the Unitarian Universalist church. No dogma. They study different "truths" from the world's religions, philosophy and science. I like that - you learn a lot! (I'm just starting out in it, really...) Plus the UU church is really good about women's rights and gay rights. I like that, too.
 

hottcjimmyv

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Episcopalian/Progressive Christian (mainly because the communion wine does wonders for my hangover).


I buy a lot of the dogma because it works for me, but I don't believe that my denomination or my religion is the only valid path to a healthy spiritual life.