Decision Made

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 17 2005, 07:15 PM
Bigintex, I was on the other side of the lie, and I can attest to how hurtful it is. We had less sex than any two human beings I know, I gained 75 pounds, got depressed, and almost completely resigned from life. I didn't deserve that, no one does. If you feel justified in lying to a woman you claim to love, you are full of shit! No, you don't owe it to your s/o to tell her every little detail of your life, but something that has this much potential to affect HER life, she has a right to know. She has every bit as much right as you to make her decision about what kind of life she wants, it's not all just about what you want. I hated being used as the best friend and confidant while meanwhile I was not seen as a sexual being at all, or one who was becomming more and more unwanted. It's a great feeling being rejected by your lover with no explaination!

Yeah, I keep hearing about staying together for the kids, the long term realtionship, blah blah blah, but doesn't a person have a right to know what kind of relationship they are in? If YOU change the rules after the marriage is already in progress, YOU are the one who must suck it up and take the risks that it may or may not be a direction she's willing to follow, but just doing it an not letting her know could have devastating impact on her through the course of time that is cruel beyond measure.

[post=321570]Quoted post[/post]​

Mme. Zora, once again you brought a very good point.
I don't want to give the impression that I agree with the lying part at all .....or even having "men on the side". I was more moved with the after effect of his situation and the emotional state he's in at present ( from his description I read in his post).

The lying and the cheating is automatically out of the question in a serious relationship, especially a marriage.........or at least it should be.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by ashlar@Jun 17 2005, 07:30 PM
Right-o Jana.

Futhermore, if your lieing under the pretext of "protecting" someone, then really you could simply be causing more damage. If someone is being "protected" I think they have a right to know that A. They are being protected, and B. what they are being protected from.

[post=321577]Quoted post[/post]​

the point bigintex has spectacularly missed is that you can't protect anyone from the realities of life, and it's dangerous to try - mainly to them but also to yourself. what you can do, if you love someone, is to try your best to help and support them with whatever crap they gotta deal with. and a good way to start with that is being honest with them in the first place

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by Dr Rock+Jun 17 2005, 02:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr Rock &#064; Jun 17 2005, 02:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ashlar@Jun 17 2005, 07:30 PM
Right-o Jana.

Futhermore, if your lieing under the pretext of "protecting" someone, then really you could simply be causing more damage. If someone is being "protected" I think they have a right to know that A. They are being protected, and B. what they are being protected from.

[post=321577]Quoted post[/post]​

the point bigintex has spectacularly missed is that you can&#39;t protect anyone from the realities of life, and it&#39;s dangerous to try - mainly to them but also to yourself. what you can do, if you love someone, is to try your best to help and support them with whatever crap they gotta deal with. and a good way to start with that is being honest with them in the first place

[post=321583]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Wow rock ... that was ... beautiful.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 17 2005, 07:15 PM
I keep hearing about staying together for the kids

That&#39;s one I&#39;ve heard as well. Here&#39;s a newsflash: kids are very perceptive and they&#39;ll often sense that something is up before one&#39;s spouse gets a clue. They don&#39;t know what&#39;s eating Dad, but they&#39;ll know something&#39;s going on before Mom has an inkling. If Dad stays with Mom for &#39;their sake&#39;, it can instill a sense of guilt in the children that will, in turn, engender resentment. Staying together for the kids isn&#39;t in anyone&#39;s best interest ... especially the kids.

 

[ashlar]

Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Jun 17 2005, 03:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoubleMeatWhopper &#064; Jun 17 2005, 03:50 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-madame_zora@Jun 17 2005, 07:15 PM
I keep hearing about staying together for the kids

That&#39;s one I&#39;ve heard as well. Here&#39;s a newsflash: kids are very perceptive and they&#39;ll often sense that something is up before one&#39;s spouse gets a clue. They don&#39;t know what&#39;s eating Dad, but they&#39;ll know something&#39;s going on before Mom has an inkling. If Dad stays with Mom for &#39;their sake&#39;, it can instill a sense of guilt in the children that will, in turn, engender resentment. Staying together for the kids isn&#39;t in anyone&#39;s best interest ... especially the kids.

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[/b][/quote]

Seriously.
I&#39;m GLAD that my mother divorced my father.

 

[Dr Rock]

I&#39;m glad that my stepfather died horribly of cancer. I never knew anyone who deserved it more.

 

[Lex]

Honesty is never overrated.

People lie because they are comfortable with falsehood and fabrication. The Truth is the most potent, powerful thing you can give to anyone you have a friendship or relationship.

The reason honesty gets a bad rap is that people have been so lulled into constantly accepting lies--their own and those of others-- and living a fantasy (i.e., &#39;Life is Easy or Fair&#39; OR &#39;We&#39;ll fall in love and live happily ever after...&#39 that they forget how difficult/powerful/unyeilding the truth is.

All a man has is his word and his actions. Nothing more. Being dishonest about the truth in the name of relationship salavation is cowardice poorly half-disguised as courage.

Do you have any idea how powerful my realtionship with my wife is becasue she knows I will be honest with her ALL THE TIME?&#33;?&#33; She may not likeit--but she knows its no lie. And that&#39;s something that I feel damn well proud about.

 

[B_RoysToy]

Originally posted by ashlar@Jun 17 2005, 04:29 PM

Different things work for different people. I fail to see however how covering everything up with lies could make things better. Had she found out on her own, I reckon it would have been worse and she flat out would have divorced, and been able to take him for everything he had based upon adultery and mental abuse. In being honest, he&#39;s at least saved from that ... should it come to divorce. . . . . .

So true, Romey, "Different things work for different people". Before our marriage I got counseling from a psychiatrist because I had always thought my sexual desires were different from what I wanted them to be. He told me to get married and everything should work out okay&#33; My ex knew of my problem, but said no one as good in bed as I was could be gay&#33; A few years after our marriage, I even told her at the dinner table with her Mother and Father that I didn&#39;t love her like I thought I should. As long as I kept her satisfied in bed (for years), all went well, but, alas, with m/m sex becoming so prevalent and her adding pounds upon pounds of weight, our sex became more seldom.

. . . . . If she did not find out and just bought the lie, than she would not have the full attention that she deserves and theres the potentual (gods forbid) that one day she could catch a disease because of his unsafe choices. That would be the worst case scenario I could imagine. If for that possability alone, she deserves to know. . . . .

I agree she deserved to know and I should have told her about my infidelities, but I wanted it both ways. Selfishness is the cause of most breakups. Because of the great children we produced, I would plan the scene over again, however.

[post=321515]Quoted post[/post]​

 

[jonb]

Honesty is never overrated. If she doesn&#39;t leave you, make sure you either don&#39;t sleep with any other men or make sure she knows about the man (Yes, I said "man" in the singular.) you&#39;re with. If she does leave you, she saved all parties involved a lot of pain.

 

[KinkGuy]

Originally posted by jonb@Jun 17 2005, 04:59 PM
If she does leave you, she saved all parties involved a lot of pain.

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???

 

[jonb]

Relationships where she&#39;s not comfortable with a major aspect of your life are worse than just being single.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by jonb@Jun 17 2005, 10:59 PM
Honesty is never overrated. If she doesn&#39;t leave you, make sure you either don&#39;t sleep with any other men or make sure she knows about the man (Yes, I said "man" in the singular.) you&#39;re with. If she does leave you, she saved all parties involved a lot of pain.

[post=321641]Quoted post[/post]​

This is exactly how I feel about the situation.......as painful as it is.

Ultimatly your trying to sheild yourself from the hurt that you caused her. Sometimes in serious relationships there is no way to do this.
As my Dad would say "sometimes you just have to be strong and bare the pain".

 

[madame_zora]

I must say I see this as wanting to have it both ways. First off, you must accept that any sexual realtionship outside the marriage is unfaithful. If you want to keep the marriage, it is now an open one. That means open for BOTH parties to sexual partners of their choosing. I&#39;ve had too many friends think that THEIR needs had to be met outside the relationship, but still felt their partner should be faithful. This is pure nonsense. I would have stayed in my marriage if I had been offerend that option, but instead I just kept getting a flat denial of the facts and no offer of resolution. Being dishonest is selfish, and she may very well leave you for that more than the issue at hand.

Open relationships have their own little set of issues, but with honesty and mutual desire to make it work, it is possible. I believe, however, that Lex&#39;s situation is not common because most people do get married (especially women) with fidelity in mind, and that being a primary component. If two people who love each other are willing to rewrite the rules, that&#39;s great, but you can&#39;t expect that to be the outcome. You know her better than most people, you&#39;ll know how much change she can tolerate. My suggestion is that you shouldn&#39;t blame her for not going along with it when you knew she married YOU as a straight man to begin with.

This is NOT a condemnation. I think it&#39;s extremely important for everyone to find where they fit in in life. If you have discovered something significant about yourself, I applaud that discovery. You now have to deal with the circumstances in which you find yourself realistically, all part of being an adult. Many things we must do are not easy, but that&#39;s not an excuse to take a less dignified route. So, you&#39;re bisexual or gay- don&#39;t become an asshole because of it.

 

[Lex]

Nicely said, Zora. Believe me, I understand ever day how fortunate I am to be married to my wife--she&#39;s one of a kind.

Also, Iceman--her moving out does nto mean that you being truthful was a failure. The truth, difficult though it may be--is SOmuch better than a lie (in the long run).

 

[GottaBigOne]

Tha painful truth is of much more value to me then a comfortable lie.

 

[MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK]

Well I won&#39;t say your wife moving out was the best thing, that&#39;s purely up to you guys, but it&#39;s good to know you let it all out about your feelings.

 

[BuffMusicIdol]

"Honesty" in my first marriage cost me my marriage, my children for 3 years, my reputation, and nearly my job. I cost family and friends who are now, after 5 years just barely coming back. Now, in my 2nd marriage, I started out honest from the very beginning. I&#39;m bi, and she knows it. It doesn&#39;t make it easy at all for either of us, but as we settle into our marriage, and get used to each other, there is more trust and freedom given to each other. Freedom, meaning a greater trust. The difference is my first wife couldn&#39;t handle "honesty" and my second one realizes this is just reality, and if she marriage some other goon, the trade offs would have to be calculated just as they are for us now. We&#39;ve nearly divorced, but it has had less to do with me being bi, and more to do with our mutual health problems. I&#39;m bipolar and she has autoimmune diseases. But, oh, honey, oh boy, she is drop dead gorgeous, exotic, and an incredible human being. So we&#39;re working it out.

I call her my Arab Terrorist Sweet Heart. She isn&#39;t Arabic, she&#39;s black Irish, but she gets detained at every airport. We plan ahead, when possible.

Okay, my rambings are slightly amusing, or perhaps boring. I do believe we have to walk carefully this path of "honesty" and determine how deep our love is for our present partner and if he/she can handle all the "honesty." If not, and you want to keep the relationship, then just be wise. Ultimately, the honest truth will come out to some degree. That&#39;s when preparation should have already been in place to handle the possible consequences.

You have to think your way through these things if you don&#39;t want to be devastated or devastate someone.

(sigh....) did that make an ounce of sense?? Hope so. I hate these new meds. I&#39;d much rather be in a mania all the time. I endlessly horny and happy then.

 

[Bigintex]

Well, I am glad to see a few of you "got it"...of course, I mostly just saw a lot of knee-jerk B.S....but, I guess as I said at first, I expected it.

M. Zora...you perplex me. Now, not to be disrespectfull, honestly...but as a woman who has "been there, done that" and has much to say on the subject.... You were, it seems, done dirty by a homo who tried to trick(?) you on this issue. I do not doubt for a minut you were unhappy- sounds horrible. So, you are done with that relationship (sounds to have been the right choice) and I would asume you are in a good, stable relationship of some sort. Why now, after being "used" by a homosexual, do you spend time on a board that appears to be mostly populated by gay and (shiver&#33 bi-sexuals? In addition to that, a board that is all about dick? If I was your man, I would be major disturbed by this information. Are you honest about what you do on the computer? Everything? If you are not in a relationship, when you do get into one...do you plan to tell him you are fag-hag, size Queen? This may not be the truth but it will seem that way to him. My guess is you will (rightly) keep your mouth shut. To him, it will smell a LOT like cheating and realy weird too&#33;. Yes, I am just being a smart-ass...just making a point.

To the rest of you that are in all your "honest" relationships...exactly when do you broach the subject to your S.O. that you hang out on a board all about GIANT DICKS?&#33;? Not only that, but all you honest people out there who never cheat and lie to your spouses...what else do you do on the computer? Oh, and to the gay guys who slammed dishonesty..when you find out the guy you are about to get down with is married, do get all guilt filled for the little woman sitting at home waiting on her sweet husband? Fuck no...you gobble his dick right down. So much for your honest halo.
What I think is that you all wrote the "correct" things...and stroked each other for being so good. Go ahead all of you, tell the truth- I did..see what it REALLY gets you. A few others told the truth here, look what it got THEM&#33; At least they were brave enough to admit it, unlike the rest of you.

I guess all I am trying to say is this...honesty SEEMS like the best policy...we have all been taught this but(&#33 how come everybody is lying, fucking around, cheating left and right and sluting their asses on the computer? I suppose there is a couple of you who have responded that do not have a S.O. but the rest of you? Liars...all of you. Everybody has a dirty little secret (or a whole lot more). This does not make you a bad person but it COULD make you a divorced person. Human nature is just that- you can TRY to control it, it works for a while but sooner or later, the nasty rears its head. I have accepted this and no longer ever try to preach what I can not practice. This is what it boils down to...we all deserve a happy life. If we have to fight tooth and nail to get it, then fine, do it.

Is the issue that we are talking about a gay/bi guy what makes this soooooo bad for the woman? See, what I find kinda funny is this- every bi guy(or gay) who is married that I know-treat their wives great. They are attentive, and YES&#33; FRIENDS&#33; They treat their wives with respect. A perfect husband/life mate. Aside from their BIG LIE(&#33 they are kind and loving and take care of thiier children and wife.
Now, on the otherhand, I hear non-stop bitchin&#39; from my female friends about their straight (I assume) husbands who treat them like shit. Abuse them in ways that stun me...friends? Forget it..they say they are lucky when hubby grunts at them now and again. Sex? What sex? Sure are a lot of 40 plus year old ladies who are sex starved by their straight husbands. I think what we are talking about is just bad male nature. I think it is probably a good thing our fathers were not "honest" with our mothers....none of us would be here. JUST A JOKE (sort of).

Oh yes...open relationship. What a massive crock of shit. No such thing...just a relationship in a stage of failure. You ain&#39;t gonna fool me on that one.

M. Zora...sorry, I do not mean to pick but one thing you did say did truely get under my skin...you mentioned that this is an issue of "wanting to have it both ways". Want? Would that be like "wanting" to be gay or straight or Bi? Want as in risking EVERY THING in your life due to an error/joke played on you by nature? Want as in feeling that yes, I to deserve to have a family? That line (and its counterpart "cake and eat it too") is so fucking tired. I have heard it from every millitant lez bitch, every flag waving fag, every smart-ass straight mother fucker on Earth-everyone who thinks they KNOW IT ALL.. M. Zora, honestly, you seem way to smart to use that foolish line. It has nothing to do with "want". I "want" a big screen TV...I do not "WANT" to be a cheating, lying bastard. Nature put me togeather this way and I do the best I can.

Allright already... doubt I will be welcome anymore...being honest about being dishonest is a hard subject . I did not mean to offend anybody- I had just wanted Iceman to know that he might have been able to keep his shit togeather and, in fact be happy. Yes, his wife too. Happens all the time.............

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by Bigintex@Jun 19 2005, 09:46 PM
Why now, after being "used" by a homosexual, do you spend time on a board that appears to be mostly populated by gay and (shiver&#33 bi-sexuals?

In addition to that, a board that is all about dick? If I was your man, I would be major disturbed by this information.

yeah, but that&#39;s because you&#39;re a psychotic loony.

To the rest of you that are in all your "honest" relationships...exactly when do you broach the subject to your S.O. that you hang out on a board all about GIANT DICKS?&#33;?

:shrug: why would my partners - or anyone else&#39;s for that matter - care what websites I use? if they were really that interested, I&#39;d tell them - and somehow I doubt they&#39;d be surprised that I hang around an online community based around big dicks I&#39;ve never yet been with anyone who evidenced more than an idle curiosity about what I was doing online, but I certainly never had a problem telling them. the sort of person who&#39;d get neurotic about the friggin INTERNET is not the sort of person I&#39;d want laying around my house to begin with.

Oh, and to the gay guys who slammed dishonesty..when you find out the guy you are about to get down with is married, do get all guilt filled for the little woman sitting at home waiting on her sweet husband?

that&#39;s HIS prerogative, not mine. she ain&#39;t MY wife, and I don&#39;t somehow incur some responsibility towards her just cos I happen to have sex with her husband. if he wants to cheat on her, it&#39;s his own lookout. I&#39;m just there to get laid. and since I&#39;m technically a (shiver&#33 bisexual, I&#39;ll point out that the exact same thing applies if I have sex with a married woman. not my committment; not my problem.

how come everybody is lying, fucking around, cheating left and right and sluting their asses on the computer?

... how exactly DOES one slut one&#39;s ass on the computer? cos I think I&#39;d like to get in on that, please.

This is what it boils down to...we all deserve a happy life.

happiness depends on yourself, not on other people.

Oh yes...open relationship. What a massive crock of shit. No such thing...just a relationship in a stage of failure.

that&#39;s strange. I&#39;ve never had a committed relationship that WASN&#39;T open, and only two of those ended badly (and both for reasons entirely unrelated to sex or committment, as it happens). I don&#39;t regard any of those relationships as having been "failures." they didn&#39;t cause me, or anyone else involved, any problems - emotional or logistical.

Want as in risking EVERY THING in your life due to an error/joke played on you by nature?

anyone who makes a relationship "everything" in their life has way bigger problems than honesty issues to begin with.

maybe if you quit projecting your own whacked-out possessive insecurities onto everyone else, you might begin to understand why there is no real advantage to deceit even in the short term.

 

[Lex]

Originally posted by Bigintex@Jun 19 2005, 05:46 PM


To the rest of you that are in all your "honest" relationships...exactly when do you broach the subject to your S.O. that you hang out on a board all about GIANT DICKS?&#33;? Not only that, but all you honest people out there who never cheat and lie to your spouses...what else do you do on the computer? Oh, and to the gay guys who slammed dishonesty..when you find out the guy you are about to get down with is married, do get all guilt filled for the little woman sitting at home waiting on her sweet husband? Fuck no...you gobble his dick right down. So much for your honest halo.
What I think is that you all wrote the "correct" things...and stroked each other for being so good. Go ahead all of you, tell the truth- I did..see what it REALLY gets you. A few others told the truth here, look what it got THEM&#33; At least they were brave enough to admit it, unlike the rest of you.

I guess all I am trying to say is this...honesty SEEMS like the best policy...we have all been taught this but(&#33 how come everybody is lying, fucking around, cheating left and right and sluting their asses on the computer? I suppose there is a couple of you who have responded that do not have a S.O. but the rest of you? Liars...all of you. Everybody has a dirty little secret (or a whole lot more). This does not make you a bad person but it COULD make you a divorced person. Human nature is just that- you can TRY to control it, it works for a while but sooner or later, the nasty rears its head. I have accepted this and no longer ever try to preach what I can not practice. This is what it boils down to...we all deserve a happy life. If we have to fight tooth and nail to get it, then fine, do it.

Allright already... doubt I will be welcome anymore...being honest about being dishonest is a hard subject . I did not mean to offend anybody- I had just wanted Iceman to know that he might have been able to keep his shit togeather and, in fact be happy. Yes, his wife too. Happens all the time.............

[post=322221]Quoted post[/post]​

Hey man--being on the opposite side of a debate does not make you not welcome here. A word of advice. Calling people names and putting people down using the power of your keyboard will get you nowhere here. I have met some wonderful people on this site (a few in person). I know there is a core constituency of good, true people here and I am thankful that I have an opportunity to dialogue with them. If you are here to talk the issues--let&#39;s do it. If you are here to lambast people--go away.

Now-to your point(s)--I told my wife I had found a site about hung guys and the problems, because, well, I am huing and have had problems and NEVER thought that there was a place where I could talk about my difficulty finding jeans, or underwear, etc. Who ever knew that people struggled with this stuff? I sure as hell didn&#39;t.

My wife suspected I was bi--and she asked me. I told her the truth. It was not easy. Actually, if not for her ipenmindedness--I would have probablynever been able to admit to myslef what I sometimes yearn for.

I fully recognize that a revelation like this is enough to destroy a relationship. I am eternally grateful and thankful that it did not destroy mine (yest?). In fact--my wife and I have embarked on this magnificent journey of self-discovery (for me) and amazment (for her). Our love for and appreciation of each other is deeper and more meaningful than it ever was before. I am sorry that your honesty caused you only pain and that you seem to feel that most of us must misrepresent the truth in order to cyber pat each other&#39;s backs. I can assure you that is not the case with me.

My wife and I are in a Mixed Orientation Marriage. We have joined support groups. I have a BF. She does not (at this time, have the desire to have a BF). In fact, she accredits my new-found sense of true self as being a stronger influence on our relationship.