Do gay people struggle?

Difference is i've been backing up what i've been saying this whole entire time



You have not answered my question: What is your objective in this discussion?

I have told you who I am… Who are YOU and why are you here?

While your thinking about that:

Your first paragraph is circular and mindless. Your basic assumptions are exaggerated and intended only to support your rant and conclusion.

If you call the two progressive hack jobs you linked to as creditable sources and don’t admit that they have serious bias issues, then we have a big problems.

If Trump / Pence can win the election by warming up to the likes of Tony Perkins and any other part of the current crowd that see themselves as the “moral majority”, that is OK. Just so long as they don’t really buy into the beliefs of that crowd, I am quite happy for Trump (through Pence) to use Tony Perkins as any kind of doormat that works.

Along with most of the religious community, I have no use for Perkins. He has been around for 10-20 years and has regularly lost influence with this or that religious group. In many ways he is a conservative evangelical Jessie Jackson. But like Oprah, he has a following that votes, so that is why he gets face time.

In a CNN article (a hyper progressive source) http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/politics/tony-perkins-donald-trump-lgbt-better-hillary-clinton/

Here is what Perkins said about Trump. Sounds great, and what Perkins said was positive, however the CNN reporter tried to turn it to a negative via context.
----
Emerging from a meeting with Trump and other evangelical leaders, Perkins told reporters, "In the context of what (Trump's) saying, I agree with him."

"What he is saying," Perkins continued, "is no American, regardless of political ideology or your life choices, should be living under threat of terrorist attack in the streets of the United States of America. So yes, LGBT, Catholic, Protestant, I don't care, atheist -- as one who wore the uniform of a United States Marine and as a police officer, no American, no American should live in fear and that's exactly what Donald Trump is saying."

Problem is the CNN reporter uses most of the article to denounce Perkins and Trump. He also neglected to mention that one of his primary references (the Southern Poverty Law Center) had also been declared the equivalent of a hate group.

What Perkins said was positive, however the CNN reporter tried to turn it to a negative context. This is always a red flag regardless of who does it.

**This goes back to the question of who are you, what is your context to this topic and why are you here?
 
Problem is the CNN reporter uses most of the article to denounce Perkins and Trump. He also neglected to mention that one of his primary references (the Southern Poverty Law Center) had also been declared the equivalent of a hate group.
Do you care to back this claim?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crimsonlurker
You have not answered my question: What is your objective in this discussion?

I have told you who I am… Who are YOU and why are you here?

While your thinking about that:

Your first paragraph is circular and mindless. Your basic assumptions are exaggerated and intended only to support your rant and conclusion.

If you call the two progressive hack jobs you linked to as creditable sources and don’t admit that they have serious bias issues, then we have a big problems.

If Trump / Pence can win the election by warming up to the likes of Tony Perkins and any other part of the current crowd that see themselves as the “moral majority”, that is OK. Just so long as they don’t really buy into the beliefs of that crowd, I am quite happy for Trump (through Pence) to use Tony Perkins as any kind of doormat that works.

Along with most of the religious community, I have no use for Perkins. He has been around for 10-20 years and has regularly lost influence with this or that religious group. In many ways he is a conservative evangelical Jessie Jackson. But like Oprah, he has a following that votes, so that is why he gets face time.

In a CNN article (a hyper progressive source) http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/21/politics/tony-perkins-donald-trump-lgbt-better-hillary-clinton/

Here is what Perkins said about Trump. Sounds great, and what Perkins said was positive, however the CNN reporter tried to turn it to a negative via context.
----
Emerging from a meeting with Trump and other evangelical leaders, Perkins told reporters, "In the context of what (Trump's) saying, I agree with him."

"What he is saying," Perkins continued, "is no American, regardless of political ideology or your life choices, should be living under threat of terrorist attack in the streets of the United States of America. So yes, LGBT, Catholic, Protestant, I don't care, atheist -- as one who wore the uniform of a United States Marine and as a police officer, no American, no American should live in fear and that's exactly what Donald Trump is saying."

Problem is the CNN reporter uses most of the article to denounce Perkins and Trump. He also neglected to mention that one of his primary references (the Southern Poverty Law Center) had also been declared the equivalent of a hate group.

What Perkins said was positive, however the CNN reporter tried to turn it to a negative context. This is always a red flag regardless of who does it.

**This goes back to the question of who are you, what is your context to this topic and why are you here?

Such hostility and egotism. Why is it that you think you have the right to ask me why i'm here? I don't know dude, last time i checked you weren't like the vice president of LPSG or anything. Unless i missed something. No. What you're doing is deflecting, avoiding and making excuses for all the shitty things milo, trump, mike pence and tony perkins have said and done.

After all of that are you somehow going to give david duke a pass too? You might as well. You're on that path anyway. It's pretty clear milo doesn't take issue with the guy either. So why should you, a person who will support trump no matter what he says or does.....which is, according to his own words...
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/23/politics/donald-trump-shoot-somebody-support/
Trump: I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'

....means you and milo yiannopoulos give trump a complete an utter free pass on any an everything he says or does. You and milo are officially (excuse my language, it's only to get my point across) trump's bitches. You guys are nothing but his attack dogs. Barking at every last person who disagrees with him in any way shape or form. And the fact that the both of you are gay is astounding. Blah blah self hate blah.

I mean you didn't even flinch when he said ask the gays. This is a free country. Everyone can vote for whoever they want. Just don't for a second think you can pass off voting for trump as some sort of logic or version of self preservation. No, you and milo are backing yourselves into a corner. And while a certain part of me cringes for you...the other part is laughing it's ass off. Seriously, the guy isn't just playing them. He's playing you too. He just wants to win.

Here's the deal if he wins and then beings to lay into the lgbt community then i'll fight along side them. Doing whatever i can to keep him from fucking things up. Meanwhile people like you and milo will be on the no help list. If all of this happens you had better hope to everything that is good that i'm not still around while you complain about your mistakes with trump. Cause i'll do everything in my power to make you remember exactly how hard you fought for the guy. I don't usually make promises on the internet but in your case. :D
 
Do you care to back this claim?

If you are referring to the comment regarding the Southern Poverty Law Center, I will go looking for the source. The last time I saw the reference; it was part of the conversation surrounding Senator Cruse early in the primaries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ragonfridd
Such hostility and egotism. Why is it that you think you have the right to ask me why i'm here? I don't know dude, last time i checked you weren't like the vice president of LPSG or anything. Unless i missed something. No. What you're doing is deflecting, avoiding and making excuses for all the shitty things milo, trump, mike pence and tony perkins have said and done.

After all of that are you somehow going to give david duke a pass too? You might as well. You're on that path anyway. It's pretty clear milo doesn't take issue with the guy either. So why should you, a person who will support trump no matter what he says or does.....which is, according to his own words...
Trump: I could 'shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters'

....means you and milo yiannopoulos give trump a complete an utter free pass on any an everything he says or does. You and milo are officially (excuse my language, it's only to get my point across) trump's bitches. You guys are nothing but his attack dogs. Barking at every last person who disagrees with him in any way shape or form. And the fact that the both of you are gay is astounding. Blah blah self hate blah.

I mean you didn't even flinch when he said ask the gays. This is a free country. Everyone can vote for whoever they want. Just don't for a second think you can pass off voting for trump as some sort of logic or version of self preservation. No, you and milo are backing yourselves into a corner. And while a certain part of me cringes for you...the other part is laughing it's ass off. Seriously, the guy isn't just playing them. He's playing you too. He just wants to win.

Here's the deal if he wins and then beings to lay into the lgbt community then i'll fight along side them. Doing whatever i can to keep him from fucking things up. Meanwhile people like you and milo will be on the no help list. If all of this happens you had better hope to everything that is good that i'm not still around while you complain about your mistakes with trump. Cause i'll do everything in my power to make you remember exactly how hard you fought for the guy. I don't usually make promises on the internet but in your case. :D


Your combination of personal attacks, innuendos, and illogical accusations all being glibly spewed out are often hard to follow. These occur while at the same time you present no objective position (and why you hold it). All these have the markings of what posters on this site refer to as a troll. I hope that will be proven inaccurate.

You either have a mission for being in this conversation or you are here just to throw what you can in the air and hope something catches on fire.

Eureka!
But then hold on. I think I may have found the beginnings of your position. And it is actually something we can agree on.

You say:

“Here's the deal if he wins and then beings to lay into the LGBT community then i'll fight along side them. Doing whatever i can to keep him from fucking things up”.

Will you also hold this stance should Hillary win?

If you agree, then we can focus on what is best for the LGBT community and why neither of us have any use for the likes of Tony Perkins or David Duke.

PS
Re your comment “You and milo are officially (excuse my language, it's only to get my point across) trump's bitches.”

Give some thought to how many of the Clinton's “bitches” have met an untimely demise. Bitch is a serious game for the Dems.
 
Your combination of personal attacks, innuendos, and illogical accusations all being glibly spewed out are often hard to follow. These occur while at the same time you present no objective position (and why you hold it). All these have the markings of what posters on this site refer to as a troll. I hope that will be proven inaccurate.

You either have a mission for being in this conversation or you are here just to throw what you can in the air and hope something catches on fire.

Eureka!
But then hold on. I think I may have found the beginnings of your position. And it is actually something we can agree on.

You say:

“Here's the deal if he wins and then beings to lay into the LGBT community then i'll fight along side them. Doing whatever i can to keep him from fucking things up”.

Will you also hold this stance should Hillary win?

If you agree, then we can focus on what is best for the LGBT community and why neither of us have any use for the likes of Tony Perkins or David Duke.

PS
Re your comment “You and milo are officially (excuse my language, it's only to get my point across) trump's bitches.”

Give some thought to how many of the Clinton's “bitches” have met an untimely demise. Bitch is a serious game for the Dems.

Translation: *You stick your fingers in your ears and say na na nana nana i can't hear you*

Untimely demise? Prove it.

Why neither of us have any use for the likes of tony perkins or david duke? Yet you support someone who is not only supported by the guys but who refuses to denounce them. Yeah i think my position is crystal clear here, same as yours. Oh and once more, you might want to wait until i actually endorse someone before you attack them an me. At this point i haven't. You have. A good three times already. Even going so far as to attack democrats and liberals as well.

Just face it. You and milo support trump and there is literally no way in hell you can justify it. Your both just angry at the world, want to feel as if you're more special than others, extremely bored and think trump could rip it all down for you. Thats it in a nutshell.

And since this thread was started with milo yiannopoulos in mind. He only wants attention and money. Plain and simple. The only reason he says and does what he says and does is so people will follow him enough to financially support him because he has no other way of making money aside from selling his body. Thats why it's so easy for him to send not only other gay people up the river but races that aren't white. And it just so happens to be the same with trump.

Again. You can support whoever you want to. What you won't do is pass it off as logic or some sort of moral uprightness. You can try to turn this into a dick measuring contest all you want to. Gotta tell you though, the more you avoid even approaching each subject i brought up the smaller your dick looks in the game you desire to play. So have fun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave NoCal
Untimely demise? Prove it.

If you claim to be undecided at this point, you really are playing the part of a troll.

Also, if you accept the official premise of the Southern Poverty Law Center, there is no escaping that Hillary (and Bill) Clinton would qualify as an official hate group based on how she treated her staff (her bitches) while in one way or another they were unable to escape her unfair treatment (immutable characteristics). Her knowing mistreatment of Vince Foster has been well documented.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llary-Clintons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

**** A list of unfortunate folks (bitches and enemies) who are considered as possible/likely collateral damage in the Clinton’s rise to fame.

James McDougal — Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

Mary Mohane — former White House intern gunned down in a coffee shop. Nothing was taken. It was suspected that she was about to testify about sexual harassment at the White House.

Vincent Foster — former White House Counsel, found dead of a gunshot wound to the head and ruled a suicide. He had significant knowledge of the Clintons' financial affairs and was a business partner with Hillary. If the Clintons are guilty of the crimes they are accused of by Larry, Vincent Foster would have detailed knowledge of those crimes.

C. Victor Raiser, II - former National Finance Co-Chairman of Clinton for President, and Montgomery Raiser, his son. Both died in a suspicious private plane crash in Alaska. No cause determined. Raiser was considered to be a major player on the Clinton team.

Paul Tully — DNC Political Director, was found dead in a Little Rock hotel room. No cause was ever determined and no autopsy was allowed. Tully was a key member of the damage control squad and came up with some of the Clinton strategies.

Ed Willey — Clinton fund raiser. Found in the woods in Virginia with a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.

Hershell Friday — Clinton fund-raiser. His plane exploded.

Jerry Parks — former security team member for Governor Clinton. Prior to his death he had compiled an extensive file on Clinton's activities. His family had reported being followed and his home broken into just before being gunned down at a deserted intersection.

John Wilson — former Washington D.C. council member. Had ties to Whitewater. Died of a very suspicious hanging suicide.

Kathy Ferguson — former wife of Arkansas State Trooper Danny Ferguson, the co-defendant with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Found dead in her living room of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Interestingly, her packed suitcases seemed to indicate she was about to go somewhere.

Bill Shelton — Arkansas state trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at her grave.

Gandy Baugh — attorney for Dan Lasater in a financial misconduct case. Supposedly jumped out the window of a tall building to commit suicide.

Dr. Donald Rogers — dentist. Killed in a suspicious plane crash on his way to an interview with reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to reveal information about Clinton.

Stanley Huggins — lawyer investigating Madison Guaranty. Suicide. His extensive report has never been released.

Florence Martin — Accountant for the CIA and had information on the Barry Seal case. Three gunshot wounds to the head.

Suzane Coleman — reportedly had an affair with Clinton. Was seven months pregnant at the time she was found dead of a gun shot wound to the back of the head, ruled suicide.

Paula Grober — Clinton's interpreter for the deaf. Traveled with Clinton from 1978 until her death in 1992 in a one-car accident. There were no witnesses.

Paul Wilcher — attorney investigating corruption. He had investigated federal elections, drug and gun smuggling through Mena, the Waco incident, and had just delivered a lengthy report to Janet Reno. He died in his home of unknown causes.

Jon Parnell Walker — RTC investigator who mysteriously fell to his death from an apartment balcony.

Ron Brown — former DNS Chairman, Commerce Secretary. Reported to have died in a plane crash, but new evidence reveals he may have been shot in the head. He was being investigated by a special investigator and was about to be indicted with 54 others. He spoke publicly of his willingness to "make a deal" with the prosecutors to save himself a few days before the fatal trip. He was not supposed to be on the flight but was asked to go at the last minute. (This count does not include the other business leaders and other passengers who died on this government-sponsored trade mission.)

Barbara Wise — Commerce Department secretary. Worked with Ron Brown and John Huang and had extensive knowledge of their activities. Found dead in her locked office the day after Thanksgiving. It was ruled a suicide. Interestingly, she was found partially clothed, bruised, and in a pool of blood.

Charles Meissner — Assistant Secretary of Commerce. John Huang was given a special security clearance by Meissner. Shortly thereafter, he died in the crash of a small plane.

Kevin Ives and Don Henry — seventeen-year-old boys who apparently saw something related to drugs in Mena by accident late at night. Officially ruled an accidental death on the train tracks, but evidence shows they died before being placed on the tracks — one of a crushed skull and the other of a knife wound in the back.

Keith Koney — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle accident with reports of a high-speed car chased involved.

Keith McKaskle — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Stabbed to death.

Gregory Collins — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Gunshot wound to the head.

Jeff Rhodes — had information on the Ives and Henry and McKaskle deaths. Tortured, mutilated, shot, body burned in a dumpster.

James Milam — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Found shot in the front seat of his pick up truck.

Dr. Stanley Heard — Chair, National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee. He personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother. His personal small plane developed problems so he rented another. Fire broke out in flight and he crashed.

Steve Dickson — attorney for Heard. Died in same plane crash.

John Hillier — video journalist and investigator. He helped to produce the documentaries "Circle of Power," and "The Clinton Chronicles." He mysteriously died in a dentist's chair for no apparent reason.

Dennis Patrick — had millions of dollars laundered through his account at Lasater & Co. without his knowledge. There have been several attempts on his life, all unsuccessful.

L.J. Davis — reporter. While investigating the Clinton scandals he was attacked in his hotel room and his notes were taken. He survived.

Larry Nichols — former marketing director of ADFA. Responsible for bringing forth more evidence and witnesses on Clinton corruption than any other source. Very public about his claims against Clinton. He has suffered six beatings, arrest on trumped up charges, and a near arrest.
 
If you claim to be undecided at this point, you really are playing the part of a troll.

Also, if you accept the official premise of the Southern Poverty Law Center, there is no escaping that Hillary (and Bill) Clinton would qualify as an official hate group based on how she treated her staff (her bitches) while in one way or another they were unable to escape her unfair treatment (immutable characteristics). Her knowing mistreatment of Vince Foster has been well documented.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llary-Clintons-close-friend-Vince-Foster.html

**** A list of unfortunate folks (bitches and enemies) who are considered as possible/likely collateral damage in the Clinton’s rise to fame.

James McDougal — Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

Mary Mohane — former White House intern gunned down in a coffee shop. Nothing was taken. It was suspected that she was about to testify about sexual harassment at the White House.

Vincent Foster — former White House Counsel, found dead of a gunshot wound to the head and ruled a suicide. He had significant knowledge of the Clintons' financial affairs and was a business partner with Hillary. If the Clintons are guilty of the crimes they are accused of by Larry, Vincent Foster would have detailed knowledge of those crimes.

C. Victor Raiser, II - former National Finance Co-Chairman of Clinton for President, and Montgomery Raiser, his son. Both died in a suspicious private plane crash in Alaska. No cause determined. Raiser was considered to be a major player on the Clinton team.

Paul Tully — DNC Political Director, was found dead in a Little Rock hotel room. No cause was ever determined and no autopsy was allowed. Tully was a key member of the damage control squad and came up with some of the Clinton strategies.

Ed Willey — Clinton fund raiser. Found in the woods in Virginia with a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide.

Hershell Friday — Clinton fund-raiser. His plane exploded.

Jerry Parks — former security team member for Governor Clinton. Prior to his death he had compiled an extensive file on Clinton's activities. His family had reported being followed and his home broken into just before being gunned down at a deserted intersection.

John Wilson — former Washington D.C. council member. Had ties to Whitewater. Died of a very suspicious hanging suicide.

Kathy Ferguson — former wife of Arkansas State Trooper Danny Ferguson, the co-defendant with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Found dead in her living room of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Interestingly, her packed suitcases seemed to indicate she was about to go somewhere.

Bill Shelton — Arkansas state trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at her grave.

Gandy Baugh — attorney for Dan Lasater in a financial misconduct case. Supposedly jumped out the window of a tall building to commit suicide.

Dr. Donald Rogers — dentist. Killed in a suspicious plane crash on his way to an interview with reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard to reveal information about Clinton.

Stanley Huggins — lawyer investigating Madison Guaranty. Suicide. His extensive report has never been released.

Florence Martin — Accountant for the CIA and had information on the Barry Seal case. Three gunshot wounds to the head.

Suzane Coleman — reportedly had an affair with Clinton. Was seven months pregnant at the time she was found dead of a gun shot wound to the back of the head, ruled suicide.

Paula Grober — Clinton's interpreter for the deaf. Traveled with Clinton from 1978 until her death in 1992 in a one-car accident. There were no witnesses.

Paul Wilcher — attorney investigating corruption. He had investigated federal elections, drug and gun smuggling through Mena, the Waco incident, and had just delivered a lengthy report to Janet Reno. He died in his home of unknown causes.

Jon Parnell Walker — RTC investigator who mysteriously fell to his death from an apartment balcony.

Ron Brown — former DNS Chairman, Commerce Secretary. Reported to have died in a plane crash, but new evidence reveals he may have been shot in the head. He was being investigated by a special investigator and was about to be indicted with 54 others. He spoke publicly of his willingness to "make a deal" with the prosecutors to save himself a few days before the fatal trip. He was not supposed to be on the flight but was asked to go at the last minute. (This count does not include the other business leaders and other passengers who died on this government-sponsored trade mission.)

Barbara Wise — Commerce Department secretary. Worked with Ron Brown and John Huang and had extensive knowledge of their activities. Found dead in her locked office the day after Thanksgiving. It was ruled a suicide. Interestingly, she was found partially clothed, bruised, and in a pool of blood.

Charles Meissner — Assistant Secretary of Commerce. John Huang was given a special security clearance by Meissner. Shortly thereafter, he died in the crash of a small plane.

Kevin Ives and Don Henry — seventeen-year-old boys who apparently saw something related to drugs in Mena by accident late at night. Officially ruled an accidental death on the train tracks, but evidence shows they died before being placed on the tracks — one of a crushed skull and the other of a knife wound in the back.

Keith Koney — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle accident with reports of a high-speed car chased involved.

Keith McKaskle — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Stabbed to death.

Gregory Collins — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Gunshot wound to the head.

Jeff Rhodes — had information on the Ives and Henry and McKaskle deaths. Tortured, mutilated, shot, body burned in a dumpster.

James Milam — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson — had information on the Ives and Henry deaths. Found shot in the front seat of his pick up truck.

Dr. Stanley Heard — Chair, National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee. He personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother. His personal small plane developed problems so he rented another. Fire broke out in flight and he crashed.

Steve Dickson — attorney for Heard. Died in same plane crash.

John Hillier — video journalist and investigator. He helped to produce the documentaries "Circle of Power," and "The Clinton Chronicles." He mysteriously died in a dentist's chair for no apparent reason.

Dennis Patrick — had millions of dollars laundered through his account at Lasater & Co. without his knowledge. There have been several attempts on his life, all unsuccessful.

L.J. Davis — reporter. While investigating the Clinton scandals he was attacked in his hotel room and his notes were taken. He survived.

Larry Nichols — former marketing director of ADFA. Responsible for bringing forth more evidence and witnesses on Clinton corruption than any other source. Very public about his claims against Clinton. He has suffered six beatings, arrest on trumped up charges, and a near arrest.

I would ask if you're hearing impaired but well this is on the internet. I never said anything about being undecided. I'm just not screaming to the top of my lungs about conspiracy theories that are seriously dangerous and immensely unproven.

Really when someone says...prove it...they don't mean create one long post of he said she said. Facts buddy. I'm only saying as much because you apparently are pegging clinton as some sort of magical mass murderer the likes of freddy kruger or jason voorhees.

35 people. You think....35 people. Ok...your tin foil hat must be all the rage at trump rallys. Let me guess. You think we should spend yet another 7 million dollars on jailing clinton. Gonna stop talking to you now. :D Enjoy your insanity.
 
Are gays struggling? Yes! Perhaps it is time to start struggling for something rather than always against something.
Should't gay people be proud of struggling against conversion therapy, against workplace discrimination, against bigotry, against negligence over AIDS, against inequality in marriage law, etc? We should be proud to oppose the republican party, specially Trump and Pence. By fighting injustice, we are fighting for justice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crimsonlurker
Should't gay people be proud of struggling against conversion therapy, against workplace discrimination, against bigotry, against negligence over AIDS, against inequality in marriage law, etc? We should be proud to oppose the republican party, specially Trump and Pence. By fighting injustice, we are fighting for justice.
In this case Hillary represents the greater potential for injustice.
 
In this case Hillary represents the greater potential for injustice.
- Conversion therapy: Clinton does not support it. The republican party has it on its platform. Pence used his power as senator to defend it, I'll elaborate it further regarding AIDS.
- Workplace discrimination: Clinton is in favor of anti-discrimination laws, the republican party platform is against. Pence voted against it on senate.
- AIDS: Pence proposed that taxpayers money should go to conversion therapy programs. Money that would go to HIV prevention programs. The republican platform only mentions AIDS/HIV on a section regarding foreign policy in Africa. Clinton's only mistake on the issue of AIDS was praising Nancy Reagan (everybody knows the Reagans, as any republican, have been tremendous obstructionists on efforts to fight against AIDS). The democratic platform aims to end the AIDS crisis in a generation.
- Marriage equality: Trump is against it, saying he would appoint judges to overrule it and let the states that would ban it continue to ban it. Pence called gay marriage the collapse of society. The republican platform is against it. Clinton is in favor of it, although she have not been in the past. If the legalization of marriage equality were to be decided via referendum among democrats only, we would have it a decade earlier (in a Pew poll in 1996, 57% of democrats were in favor of marriage equality). If the legalization of marriage equality were to be decided among republicans only, we would still not have it (only 33% in a Pew poll this year).

Do ask me for any source if you need them (most of the facts presented here are common knowledge).
 
I've been looking through some of the responses, and I have to say that yes gays do struggle. Especially black gays. Today, the duality of being Black and gay is sometimes challenging and oftentimes heavy – homophobia, racism, incarceration, mortality and issues of identity can,will, and does weigh on our spirit, our feelings of self worth and our very existence. HIV and AIDS are still prominent in our community – the CDC reports that half of Black gay and bi-sexual men will test HIV positive in their lifetime. Also the area of Virginia where I live has some of highest rates of STI's (including HIV). And let’s not forget that Black Lives Matter (a movement lead by LGBT activists) is still a hot button issue and trending topic in this country and social justice is constantly being disputed in the African American community.

There is an article in the 2015 edition of the advocate titled " Why Can't We Talk About Homophobia in the Black Community?http://www.advocate.com/politics/2015/05/26/why-cant-we-talk-about-homophobia-black-community. In this article Empire co-creator, Lee Daniels (who is gay) talks about the backlash he has received even from the black LGBT community because he used real-life experiences with his father which inspired the relationship between Jamaal and Lucious on the show, has said he wanted Empire to “blow the lid” off of the “rampant” homophobia in the black community. The backlash wasn’t pretty. Antigay viewers lashed out at Daniels on social media throughout the first season. They threatened him, as well as his children.

Also let's not forget WikiLeaks outing Saudi Arabian gay men. In that country Homosexuality is Punishable by Death. http://www.towleroad.com/2016/08/wikileaks-outed-gay-men/

Then do we remember the straight reporter who cruised Grynder and outed Gay athletes from Anti-Gay countries. http://www.towleroad.com/2016/08/grindr-olympics

So do gays struggle, yes we do. As a single gay father I've to struggle with family who have problems with my lifestyle. As a church goer who is also preacher's kid I've had to struggle on so many levels. But I can say that these struggles have made me stronger.


 
  • Like
Reactions: 622675
Hey cutie, did you read this part of my post "If the legalization of marriage equality were to be decided among republicans only, we would still not have it"

You may be correct about legalizing gay marriage, but it did not come from Hillary or the Clintons. I had a front row seat in the military when Bill came in with his don’t ask – don’t tell program. Nothing could have more politically opportunistic or was intended to be more punitive.

Lets put politics to the side here if we can. The sad reality is that humanity in general never seems to progress unless they are challenged (forced) to learn. Regrettably what humans do is take sides on an issue, then push back and forth until some compromises are reached. Over a period of time this has the effect of making all parties try to defend their positions while being forced to stand in the other persons shoes. This is how cultures and people learn and change.

During the past 100 years we have seen a number of cultural issues (integration, women’s rights, mixed marriages, divorce, alcohol consumption, recreational drugs, religious over-reach……) debated. It has not been easy for our culture to change, but it has and I would say much for the better. Like linnierjr (above) said, “these struggles have made me stronger”. The struggles are important and people are not going to change unless they are involved in the struggle.

If you are a teacher, one of the first things you learn is that you never really knew the subject until you had to teach it.

I could counter your statement by saying that if it had been left up to the Democrats; slavery might have lasted much longer than it did. But the important point to be made here is that for issues like gay equality to be resolved, liberal and conservative thinkers need to battle it out and keep the population involved. Those who are liberal (usually Democrats) can’t be allowed to feel they own gay issues. And more conservative thinkers (usually Republicans) need to be pulled along so that they eventually “see the light”.

Gay equality issues can’t be resolved until all (nearly all) the people agree on what freedom and liberty really mean for each individual. And neither side can appear to have left the other in the dust at this point or is will slow down the struggle.
 
Since most of this thread has turned into an incredibly tedious argument about U.S. politics (which you're welcome to engage in, but I choose to avoid) I skipped a whole pile of pages and thought I'd reply to the first post.

Do any of you know gay people who struggle? Who are oppressed and/or underprivileged?

Short answer: God yes, absolutely.

There have been, in recent years, queers who are arguing that we're living in a "post-gay" world, wherein queers are so well accepted that we can choose to define ourselves in ways unrelated to our sexuality. Most queers who argue that are middle-cass or one-percenter, white, anglo, Western, young urbanites. Their identities have sheltered them from much, including the worst of the world's homophobia.

For most queer people, high school is dangerous (physical and verbal assaults are commonplace), coming out is dangerous (losing friends and family is commonplace, and many of us lose our communities of origin in order to find a place where we fit in), living publicly is dangerous (anyone who says we're over homophobic oppression should try being a man holding another man's hand in the anglo Western world outside of an urban downtown area), rejection from religious communities is pretty much guaranteed. The signs of it are all over queer communities: Self-identified LGB people report far higher rates of stress and, therefore, mental illness, addictions, suicide attempts. LGB people are far more likely to be raped, assaulted, and murdered than their straight, cisgender counterparts. LGB people are more likely to experience discrimination at work, from medical professionals, from police.

(I'm not even going to get into how trans and gender-nonbinary people suffer...)

Cross homophobia with the -isms and -phobias associated with race, disability, age, immigration status, poverty, class, etc., etc.,. etc., and the picture gets more and more complicated - and the oppression becomes clearer and clearer.

So yes, we struggle. And yes, it makes us stronger, absolutely. Thing is, we have no choice but to be strong - and though we might like to define ourselves in ways unrelated to sexuality, there's no way the world will let us do that yet.
 
Since most of this thread has turned into an incredibly tedious argument about U.S. politics (which you're welcome to engage in, but I choose to avoid) I skipped a whole pile of pages and thought I'd reply to the first post.



Short answer: God yes, absolutely.

There have been, in recent years, queers who are arguing that we're living in a "post-gay" world, wherein queers are so well accepted that we can choose to define ourselves in ways unrelated to our sexuality. Most queers who argue that are middle-cass or one-percenter, white, anglo, Western, young urbanites. Their identities have sheltered them from much, including the worst of the world's homophobia.

For most queer people, high school is dangerous (physical and verbal assaults are commonplace), coming out is dangerous (losing friends and family is commonplace, and many of us lose our communities of origin in order to find a place where we fit in), living publicly is dangerous (anyone who says we're over homophobic oppression should try being a man holding another man's hand in the anglo Western world outside of an urban downtown area), rejection from religious communities is pretty much guaranteed. The signs of it are all over queer communities: Self-identified LGB people report far higher rates of stress and, therefore, mental illness, addictions, suicide attempts. LGB people are far more likely to be raped, assaulted, and murdered than their straight, cisgender counterparts. LGB people are more likely to experience discrimination at work, from medical professionals, from police.

(I'm not even going to get into how trans and gender-nonbinary people suffer...)

Cross homophobia with the -isms and -phobias associated with race, disability, age, immigration status, poverty, class, etc., etc.,. etc., and the picture gets more and more complicated - and the oppression becomes clearer and clearer.

So yes, we struggle. And yes, it makes us stronger, absolutely. Thing is, we have no choice but to be strong - and though we might like to define ourselves in ways unrelated to sexuality, there's no way the world will let us do that yet.

I hear you. Both on struggling and not wanting to bring politics into the mix. It gets frustrating and more than a little tiring. Theres a few things we may not agree on but those are a few we do. With that said, i think this election year is about as important as it gets for....... I know i'm not gay, a lesbian, bisexual or anything else but where i'm sitting there are people who really want others to think that the lbgt community hasn't and isn't struggling.

I mean i created this thread just to see how people felt but once it got going i noticed that there are a few people out there who don't know whats happening and who don't realize that their stories are being erased from the social lexicon. Thats the only reason i kept it going this long.

I agree 100% that there is no choice but to be strong. Difference being, how can you be strong when you don't know or have little clue who to be strong against? I would never in a million years even thought to imply that homophobia isn't real or that the lbgt community doesn't struggle. There are though, people who would. And not only would but who would use that as a stepping stone to further harm the lbgt community in as many ways as they possibly could. Even going so far as to imply that their competition created the idea of homophobia, all to win favor and possibly money from another group.

I know politics in general is a very mind numbingly stupid and emotion inducing thing but once again if you don't know who you're fighting or whose fighting against you then how can you ever possibly win the fight? How can you know who to defend yourself from or how to defend yourself?

So yeah i don't know. Just felt that needed to be said. I know i go on and on sometimes but thanks for replying. Maybe it'll help someone else understand that the troubles they're going through are shared at least a little by others and isn't just all made up in their heads.
 
You may be correct about legalizing gay marriage, but it did not come from Hillary or the Clintons. I had a front row seat in the military when Bill came in with his don’t ask – don’t tell program. Nothing could have more politically opportunistic or was intended to be more punitive.
What it seems you were saying is that gay/bi people were allowed in the military before DADT, which is not true. It was actively supressed, even against the closeted, so while the DADT was definitely disapoiting to LGBT electors who expected greater liberalization, it was an improvement comparing with the previous military law.

I could counter your statement by saying that if it had been left up to the Democrats; slavery might have lasted much longer than it did.
Abolition would definitely be supported by today's democrats. With the exception of the name, 1800s democratic party and 2016's democratic party are completely different parties. Same-sex marriage would not be allowed by today's republicans. That is proved by several different polls. Can you see the difference?

But the important point to be made here is that for issues like gay equality to be resolved, liberal and conservative thinkers need to battle it out and keep the population involved. Those who are liberal (usually Democrats) can’t be allowed to feel they own gay issues. And more conservative thinkers (usually Republicans) need to be pulled along so that they eventually “see the light”.
Gay equality issues can’t be resolved until all (nearly all) the people agree on what freedom and liberty really mean for each individual. And neither side can appear to have left the other in the dust at this point or is will slow down the struggle.
Actually, we have to show the conservatives what they are losing by not supporting 1st class citizenship for LGBT people. If they have nothing to lose by bigotry, they will remain bigots. We have to tell everyone that LGBT people count: we buy from you (or not), we hire you (or not), we vote for you (or not), it's all up to you, straight people.