Gay ...THINGS?!
- Thread starter Joseph
- Start date
Thank you... I did calm down a bit, so I won't delete the thread...
I didn't want to sound like I want gay bars to be closed. I mean of all the "gay things" I've mentioned, those have the biggest right to exist.
I just felt like not all things in this world are "straight by default" and require a gay version. But I just might be ignorant and I do not understand the need for such things.
I might not understand a lot about the whole world. I don't really have off line friends, I spend most of my life locked inside my room in front of the pc... I don't feel connected to my sexuality so much to read magazines, watch channels or go to bars because of it.... but the same goes for movies, music, art, anything, there's nothing in my life that without any borders makes me happy or proud. I guess that's why I can't understand it.
I didn't want to sound like I want gay bars to be closed. I mean of all the "gay things" I've mentioned, those have the biggest right to exist.
I just felt like not all things in this world are "straight by default" and require a gay version. But I just might be ignorant and I do not understand the need for such things.
I might not understand a lot about the whole world. I don't really have off line friends, I spend most of my life locked inside my room in front of the pc... I don't feel connected to my sexuality so much to read magazines, watch channels or go to bars because of it.... but the same goes for movies, music, art, anything, there's nothing in my life that without any borders makes me happy or proud. I guess that's why I can't understand it.
invisibleman
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Oh, god...there are signs of intelligence in cyberspace tonight!!!!
Preach, reverend, preach!!!
The reaction. Woo!!!
:smile:
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I think it depends on what part of the country you're talking about. There are still gay ghettos in major US cities. For instance here in LA there's West Hollywood which is a large gay area. I think this takes place within other groups also. There are Hispanic and Black neighborhoods. I think people want to be equal but also want to express their unique individuality at the same time. And while a lot of lesbians and gay couples are getting married and having kids, they're doing it in their own way.
In a "gay environment" I feel accepted, and I believe that's the issue. The first time I went clubbing to a gay place I sat for half hour or so looking around and feeling amazed that men were kissing each other and nobody said a word. Today (12 years later) when I go to "straight environemnts" I'm still looked down upon - and I'm "straight acting".
It's my clothes, it's my company, it's my looking good, it's my talking about boyfriends, it's my talking about sex (why are straight people so conservative when it comes to sex - even talking about it), it's all of that.
So I guess that's why a lot of us would rather be at a "gay place", read a "gay magazine" or do a "gay thing" - because there's no need to justify yourself.
It's my clothes, it's my company, it's my looking good, it's my talking about boyfriends, it's my talking about sex (why are straight people so conservative when it comes to sex - even talking about it), it's all of that.
So I guess that's why a lot of us would rather be at a "gay place", read a "gay magazine" or do a "gay thing" - because there's no need to justify yourself.
scottredleter
Sexy Member
You didn't offend me. I'm all for questions, and you are allowed to ask them. People can have a knee-jerk reaction to this stuff. In some cases, I think they were answering the question that they wanted to hear. Please don't delete threat.
I'm not going to delete it... But I still do feel a bit guilty about the whole thing.
"Acceptance" is very important, it's something I desire as well, but then again it's not like I accept myself to begin with, so I don't even begin demanding others to accept me.
I don't believe my sexuality is the only thing I am ashamed of and certainly not the only thing I'm hiding. Finding a place where I could be open about it would not make immediately make all my cares go away. I'm always and outsider and freak, so I can't really understand how other people can unite into subcultures, be it casual things like hobbies or a sexuality. That's just me I guess.
"Acceptance" is very important, it's something I desire as well, but then again it's not like I accept myself to begin with, so I don't even begin demanding others to accept me.
I don't believe my sexuality is the only thing I am ashamed of and certainly not the only thing I'm hiding. Finding a place where I could be open about it would not make immediately make all my cares go away. I'm always and outsider and freak, so I can't really understand how other people can unite into subcultures, be it casual things like hobbies or a sexuality. That's just me I guess.
Dave NoCal
Superior Member
Joseph, I wasn't offended and am glad you raised questions. I do think that some of these separations are due to lack of acceptance, exclusion, and simple lack of recognition. For example on a health-related discussion board the subject of gay people came up and I posed the question of what people thought it would be like to grow up and never hear a popular song on the topic of love that related to their sexual orientation. Several people really seemed to get that. It's my understanding that Iceland has a very inclusive culture and, in reading a story in a gay magazine about travel there, the author told of asking where the gay bars were and getting a response of complete puzzlement, from gay people. Their response was: "Why would you want to just be with one sort of people?"
I hope that being in Europe you will soon have opportunities to travel and experience countries that are less conservative.
Dave
I hope that being in Europe you will soon have opportunities to travel and experience countries that are less conservative.
Dave
rainbowknight
Experimental Member
Joseph, don't feel guilty, remorseful, or even apprehensive about your post. The only way to learn is to ask questions. You live in a different area of the world and a different culture. Asking questions about what is going on is only natural. As a child, I remember seeing segments on the news about the Solidarity Movement in Poland. I have questions about that today. Would it offend you if I asked questions about that in a post?
Also, being gay in America is complicated at best. There are so many things that go along with it. From the onset, everything was cloaked in secrecy (for the most part). Being gay in America for some is not a "stage of being," it is a journey. For a lot of us, we go through different stages. At some point, most of us have to fight for our identity whether it be with family, friends, or society. When I say fight, I mean take a stand nothing physical. However, in some instances it may be physical. As a kid, I saw a gay guy get into a fight with his mother's boyfriend. I am sure that the fight would never had happened if he was straight. I got the gist that the boyfriend felt that his masculinity was being assaulted by someone who was "less than him."
In the quest for understanding, if you encounter someone who gets upset for you asking questions, move on. That person does not have the answers that will help you to where you want to go.
There are a lot of people in this group who are enlightened of all persuasions and beliefs. Keep the threads coming, you will learn a lot.
Also, being gay in America is complicated at best. There are so many things that go along with it. From the onset, everything was cloaked in secrecy (for the most part). Being gay in America for some is not a "stage of being," it is a journey. For a lot of us, we go through different stages. At some point, most of us have to fight for our identity whether it be with family, friends, or society. When I say fight, I mean take a stand nothing physical. However, in some instances it may be physical. As a kid, I saw a gay guy get into a fight with his mother's boyfriend. I am sure that the fight would never had happened if he was straight. I got the gist that the boyfriend felt that his masculinity was being assaulted by someone who was "less than him."
In the quest for understanding, if you encounter someone who gets upset for you asking questions, move on. That person does not have the answers that will help you to where you want to go.
There are a lot of people in this group who are enlightened of all persuasions and beliefs. Keep the threads coming, you will learn a lot.
Thank you very much!
Oh? PHEW! That is what I meantÂ… Exactly what I meant! I guess I just couldnÂ’t imagine America being that badly intolerant after all this time, it seemed to me things there were fairly okay, at least ok enough to make a lesser need for separation, but I guess I was wrong. But as some people noticed without me saying it so much: IÂ’m from Poland, a very conservative and religious country, so the USA may seem to be like a tolerant paradise to meÂ… when compared to my shit hole ehhh I mean country.
So I guess yeah separation still exists, but once things finally get calm and homosexuality will become accepted (As in Iceland), I do think such objects and places will be less needed. And thanks, I do plan to leave Poland and see the rest of the world.
BTW I did already a few times write lyrics to songs and never would I use obvious suggestions in a love song that itÂ’s guys, girls or guy and a girl. Quite frankly I already thought it was unnecessary before I even took sexuality as criteria, heh.
Thank you very much. Wow, your familiar with Solidarity? IÂ’m impressed! I wouldnÂ’t mind answering them, I wouldnÂ’t find it offensive if you asked, butÂ… in this topic I thought I made some people angry, as said IÂ’m shy and insecure, so I have an automatic reaction often that if someone disagrees with me on a topic, I usually think IÂ’m wrong Â… and if itÂ’s a sensitive topic such as this, I always think IÂ’m wrong and a monster and regret saying anything. I still try to fight it and become more confidentÂ…
I know this is out of the topic, but I thought IÂ’d say that even if you were offending Solidarity, I wouldnÂ’t mind. I donÂ’t really feel connected to my country, I feel like a sore thumb here and outsider, thus I shall leave.
Thank you for encouraging me again. After I got sad due to this thread, I really felt like I shouldnÂ’t write threads for a looong timeÂ… and like I didnÂ’t deserve to enter gay bars if I ever wanted to. Thank you very much. I shall write a new thread soon enough perhaps, heh.
Principessa
Expert Member
Hi,
I think this is an interesting discussion and as a gay man who has been with his partner for 21 years, I'd like to add in a couple of comments.
First of all, I think you make a good point and I don't think it's offensive. For years, gay businesses became a symbol of the gay "ghetto" and I think you might be trying to make the point that if we continue to have businesses that cater specifically to gays - we are only going to continue to build barriers and further inequality. I think this is a fading trend...the gay ghetto in most cities is disappearing, and we have become a visible, vocal, and economic force in this world that isn't going anywhere.
We live in a capitalist world - for better or for worse, and gays have money to spend. The growth of businesses that cater to the gay community is beneficial for the gay community - more gay businesses = more profit = more political power = more money to fight for civil rights.
I think this is an interesting discussion and as a gay man who has been with his partner for 21 years, I'd like to add in a couple of comments.
First of all, I think you make a good point and I don't think it's offensive. For years, gay businesses became a symbol of the gay "ghetto" and I think you might be trying to make the point that if we continue to have businesses that cater specifically to gays - we are only going to continue to build barriers and further inequality. I think this is a fading trend...the gay ghetto in most cities is disappearing, and we have become a visible, vocal, and economic force in this world that isn't going anywhere.
We live in a capitalist world - for better or for worse, and gays have money to spend. The growth of businesses that cater to the gay community is beneficial for the gay community - more gay businesses = more profit = more political power = more money to fight for civil rights.
Just so you know I'm not digressing. 
Republicans and democrats used to be very similar and fight for similar things until one party started using aggressive techniques (republicans) to increase their party by depleting the only other competition. This happens a lot in nature which lead inevitably to the republicans and democrats being so left and so right wing that they were in no way similar anymore. democrats hate republicans because they are ignorant prejudiced and trash talk and republicans hate democrats because they are whiny annoying and everything they do is bureaucratic bullshit. the only way to stop this is if the republicans and democrats meet half way but the republicans have to make the first steps because they started the hate parade.
Republicans and democrats used to be very similar and fight for similar things until one party started using aggressive techniques (republicans) to increase their party by depleting the only other competition. This happens a lot in nature which lead inevitably to the republicans and democrats being so left and so right wing that they were in no way similar anymore. democrats hate republicans because they are ignorant prejudiced and trash talk and republicans hate democrats because they are whiny annoying and everything they do is bureaucratic bullshit. the only way to stop this is if the republicans and democrats meet half way but the republicans have to make the first steps because they started the hate parade.
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