How do I do it?

Phil Ayesho

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If she says its not her problem or not her fault... then point out to her that that is what every women says to herself in the years prior to the divorce. They disregard the needs of their husbands and then, one day, look around and wonder where the hell he went.

Explain that a marriage is a negotiated contract and that a large part of what you contracted for was sexual intimacy with her.
Point out that you are holding up YOUR end of the deal and you expect her to make a good faith effort to hold up her end of the deal.

If you are lucky and she is open minded, SHE will bring up the idea of discrete philandering... or she will show interest in a medical solution.


AN important point to note is that LOTS of women act horny until they have the kids... but the KIDS are their true objective in life... the real reason they even wanted to marry... and once they have them, the husband takes up a distant second or third in their attentions and in their affections.

Its not personal, necessarily... just a libido that is shut down because they have, genetically, accomplished the goal the libido existed to help realize.

There are medical treatments for low libido in women.... but she has to WANT that sexual excitement back.
 

D_Fiona_Farvel

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The French just have mistresses, Mormons just picked up another wife or two, Chinese had concubines, and rich Arabs had harems. Married American men got stuck with their own hand.
This is the saddest damn truth, and no way to live, imo.

you might want to pick up a copy of The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton or Open: Love, Sex and Life in an Open Marriage by Jenny Block. both fairly respected reads on the subject of open relationships. lots of information on how to open up an established relationship and introducing the idea to your partner.

personal advice. before you mention it to her take the time to educate yourself on the issues, be ready to answer her questions, be ready to reassure her ego or hurt feelings.
check out a few message boards, resource groups, support boards aimed at open relationships & poly-relationships. no matter what you do you need to be honest with yourself and you partner.

giving therapy another go might help, people change over time so another go might produce better results. if she knows you are at the breaking point maybe she'll put more effort into therapy. she might have been on the defensive or unwilling to deal with certain issues.

good luck.
ML

sex isn't the most important things in a relationship but it's still pretty damn important.
Ethical Slut, woo hoo!
One of the best books ever! I read that and was relieved to discover there are women of like mind in the world.

I think Indy and MickeyLee offer great advice, OP.
Imo, lifelong masturbation while partnered, or the rest of your life without intimacy isn't beneficial to your spirit. I hope through counseling that you find a solution.
 

Hippie Hollow Girl

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Wow! Nice pic of you and the wife. She is beautiful and you are not bad yourself.

She is feeding you a load of crap trying to justify her low sex desires. Maybe the other ladies in the office do have low sex drives too.... but that doesn't justify why she would not be having sex with her husband more often than every six months. You have grounds for divorce.

She is not wanting to go to counseling because she likes everything just the way it is and she doesn't want to fix the problem.

There are lots of beautiful women out there that have a normal sex drive. Tell her to go to the dr. and go to counseling.
 

Phil Ayesho

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After looking at the picture, I have to ask if you were overweight when you first got married?

I can tell you from my own experience that I could track my wife's sexual interest in me rather precisely with nothing but a personal weight chart.

When I have been heavier, her sexual response to me has waned. When I lose some pounds, her interest comes back.


One thing to consider is that, as much as she may turn you on... have you thought about how much you turn her on?

loving you, she may be loathe to mention or make you feel bad about your appearance...
But that could have something to do with her sexual response.

I suggest an earnest effort to get in better shape... not necessarily an adonis... but I am reminded of Kevin Spacey's line in American Beauty when he says that he wants to look good naked.
 

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Heard of far too many breakdowns based on the woman not wanting sex, then after the breakup happens the woman takes on a new lover and finds a sexual lease of life she'd never have admitted she had (much to the previous lover's frustration).

Sometime's you'll be able to unlock the problem before the divorce other times not, but if you've been through counselling once already and not found the answer it must be disheartening.
 

oakwood

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Man, I was there too. I got the same problem with my ex-girlfriend and the only advise that I give you is to go counceling after talking to her and convincing her that there is a problem.

I don't know what the problem is because every person and every couple is different but from my experience this is the only way, assuming that she is conviced.

I was with my ex three years, living together, so we were not married but we were not just for fun. After one year, our sexual life disappeared. She was not interested except when she needed to. I tried to talk to her many times. Excuses were colorful. I had never thought there were so many. I tried to talk to her. I tried to keep her without sex so she realised what I felt. I tried to trade doing other things. I tried to go counseling with her. Every possibility you think. Nothing worked. She didn't believe in counseling so when I finally conviced her to go, it was useless. She attended but she didn't do anything she was told and even in the counseling sessions she were trying to deflect discussions to other topics.

I don't know what you feel but I felt horrible because it is not only sex, it is also not to be loved. You talk to her about how unsatisfied you are and she doesn't act, as if you don't matter.

One of her favourite excuses was that when you are in a long relationship (1 year?) passion is run out. So I used to ask her that then caring and cuddling should stop, using the same logic. Her answer: silence. I don't know your wife but my ex had had the same problems before with every boyfriend. I am ashame what I did, humiliating myself trying to solve her problems and thinking of her more than of me. But I loved her so it is difficult.

I did some research and maybe you know but it is very common. At least the symptoms: low libido. The reasons are multiple, most of them are psychological. Read about female sexual dysfunctions and you get an idea.

In my case, she couldn't face her problems (many and different) so at the end, she left me because she couldn't stand the pressure of being asked for a healthy sex life. So firstly I should try to convice her. Otherwise, it won't work.

The open relationship option, I think, only will worse everything.

Good luck.
 

Milbury

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Disclaimer (For the OP)- Let me make this crystal clear: I don't know you, and I know almost nothing about you. For all I (or anyone on this board) knows, you're a reincarnation of Dionysus. You're hung like a stallion, with the stamina of a packmule. You eat pussy like you have a cold and you know that her clit is a Robitussin dispenser button. You're just as comfortable with a slow lovemaking session beside a fire as you are with pressing her against a wall and ramming your way inside or deep fucking her as she sits on top of the washing machine while it's on "High". When you come home from work, you greet her with a smile and a slightly deep kiss before the kids come barreling into the room, you take the kids out on weekends and let her have a day of rest, bring home flowers on random days, the whole nine yards. Barring a level of suppressed homosexuality on her part, I'd say that there isn't any reason for her to not jump your bones on any given occasion. And if you can say that this is all true, then I'd say that you should go all out with therapy, talks and the like before throwing in the towel.
 

Milbury

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There's just one problem: You'll never be able to type anything on this board that would convince me that this is true.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and your picture (IMHO, and in repeated personal experience) reveals a man who couldn't turn her woman on with a diamond dildo. You look like a "once was", literally. Like a former colege athlete or hungry executive, a man with a goal and a mission who's gone as soft as a marshmallow (physically and mentally). In fact, you look like the majority of the men who I've known during my involvement in the lifestyle, but without the spark, the glint, the intent in your eyes. If I had the money to spare, I'd bet a million dollars that you've never given your wife an entire day of orgasms. And I'm sure that your days of casual married sex are long gone as well, if they'd ever even existed (Don't use the children as an excuse, let her take that one).

You look like the proverbial "two-pump chump", the type of man whose lovemaking skills are the five moves of doom: kiss her until she responds/turns around, finger her until she gets wet, force yourself in as soon as she parts her legs, pump her until you reach orgasm, turn around and go to sleep/work/anything besides staying beside her. You look like your idea of romance is getting home from work before the kids get home from soccer practice. You look like the type of guy who women complain/comment about on Internet boards, as in "I never liked sucking my ex-husband's cock, but all Johnnie has to do is whip it out and I'm going for the gold.", "Eat me!!? Terry? You must be joking!!?", "I asked him to make dinner, because I had another migraine. He gave the kids cold cereal and baloney sandwiches.". Bottom line, you look like a stereotypical middle class Caucasian-American male with what a less-caring person would say possesses a "narcissistic self-complex". And you talk like the kind of guy who visits Internet sex forums and complains about how your wife won't "give up the goods", but balks at the idea of doing anything besides the "lights out, missionary position until he cums, then straight to bed" routine.

Now, despite the tone of the last few paragraphs, I'm going to pretend that I'm a licensed counselor and give some advice. First things first: no swinging, no open relationships, no quickie/drawn-out divorces! The last part is obvious, as there are children who'll be affected. The first two, however, need some detail. Swinging is the icing on the cake of a perfect relationship. An "Open Door" stance is like the cookie at the end of a Subway combo, as far as marriages are concerned. Simply put, they're enhancers, not solutions. If your wife isn't willing to open her legs to you (whether for your cock, fingers or tongue), you don't want to allow her to give into temptation. And with the first two solutions, you'd be giving her a key to a candy store.
(my personal opinion: Your wife looks hotter than a furnace. And she's assumeably reaching her sexual peak, which means that you could "convince" her to do so many things. So many indecent, taboo, naughty things...)
She has a pretty face, a decently formed body (as far as I can tell from the picture) and is still willing to sleep in the same bed with you. Why risk allowing her to meet someone who's probably more experienced than you in bedroom talent or mind games? Swinging? She's a probable lock for any couple who sets eyes on her. And the lifestyle is always looking for "new bisexual" women (if they're single or newly divorced, it's all the better), if you know what I mean. Open relationship? Assuming that she isn't cheating on you at this time, she'd quickly find a local neighbor or migrant worker/handyman or business associate to fulfill her needs. Hell, if she hit on me in a bar I'd come running and leave cum running. And if/when that happens, you're dust in the wind, because (if my experiences are anything resembling normal) a mature woman loves sex like a fat kid loves cake. Then the inevitable divorce talks will begin, and you'll be on this board or another Internet forum blathering about how open marriages can never work, or about how swinging is the death knell of any relationship. And I have plenty of information of the opposite effect, plus quite a bit of information regarding the usual factors that lead to a negative outcome (less-attractive body shape, minor skill set and level of innovation/ingenuity combined with selfish bedroom behaviour, lack of shown desire or inverted/perverted desire {compared to the new male partners}. All in all, an almost textbook case of comparing a gold ring to a tarnished brass ring).

But, you can change all of that with a few steps that don't involve your visiting a bookstore and trying to furtively buy a copy of "The Ethical Slut". And, best of all, they aren't even that difficult to do.
1. The gym. 2 miles running, 2 knots swimming or 5 miles on a stationary bike 2 days a week. Calisthenics/weightlifting/yoga 2 days a week. 6 months from now, if you dedicate yourself, you should be a lot closer to what modern day health professionals would consider to be an optimal weight. And, regardless of your current physical condition, you can fit these workouts in an hour. Less weight on your part=a body that your wife would consider more comfortable to allow on top of her. That's one goal achieved.
2. The library. Libraries are covered in self-help books, relationship books and romance/seduction/sex manuals. Open a book and fucking read it! Learn about things:massage, G-spots, bondage, anything that will remove your current bedroom repertoire from it's current doldrums. If your wife is anything like the majority of American woman on the other side of 30, her body is begging for more orgasms. This is your chance to become a part of her climactic regimen, instead of being/becoming a hindrance.
3. The "talks". Tell her that you're trying to change. She's your wife, not just your resident food cooker/child raiser/house cleaner/orgasm absorber (hopefully). Tell her as much as she needs to know. Tell her that you're going to the gym, and call her when you're getting ready to come home. Tell her about an interesting book that you're reading, then ask her if anything inside sounds interesting. Or try some of the stuff out. Believe me, a 10-15 minute foot rub and a "How was your day?" can go a lot farther than a blunt, "I think that we should go to 'Sensual Shenannigans' this weekend."
4. The kids. Romance killers, the lot of them. There's a reason why active swingers tend to be in the late 30's-mid 50's range. They got married at 18-25, had children, and the last kids are finally out of their hair after 18-25 years of nurturing. If your children are too small, or you live in an unsafe area, suck it up and invest in sound barriers for your bedroom. If they're old enough to be trusted with sleepovers, start finding friends for them. If everything else that I've suggested is working, you'll need the "alone time". After all, they shouldn't be privy to Mommy's cries of "Right there, Notaguru2! OhmiGODDDDD!!"

Bottom line: I'm not a professional. I'm just a guy who entered this thread and saw so many warning signs that I couldn't help but put in my (admittedly) 15 cents. And you should re-read the disclaimer at the top of this post if you honestly believe that I'm out of line with my comments, because (as it says) I know nearly nothing about you. All I know is that you're a married man who either has a large cock or likes looking at large cocks. But, I've been on more than a few sex-based Internet forums. And I've read so many threads in this exact vein that I can see the train coming down the track before I see the searchlights or hear the horns. And, judging from the various swingers who I've known over my ten years in the lifestyle, I can say that my tips work. All of the successful swingers (or, at least happy swingers) that I've known have taken at least two of these tips to heart. Whether it's just a matter of looking more like the man that she married, or fucking her like the men in the romance novels, or treating her like the only women on the planet, or some combination of the three, women tend to respond favorably to these actions. And on those occasions in which the tips didn't work out as expected, the talks will usualy reveal some outlying causes (childhood abuse, suppressed lesbian desires, health/body issues {yes, her health affects her libido}) which can be supplemented by professional, physical or pharmaceutical therapy. Worst case scenario: She doesn't respond in the least, or she reveals herself to be unwilling to change, and you can divorce with a clear conscience. The kids will pout, but they'll understand as they get older.
Best case scenario: You'll have a wife who's as passionate aboout you as you are of her. And, at heart, you sound like a guy who hasn't been able to figure out where things started to go wrong. Make the right decisions, reignite her fire, and she may drag you to the local swingers club.(I'll see you there.) She may not even play, just sit back and watch as her "loving husband" enjoys the attentions of a different woman. (Not likely, but it takes all kinds)
Most likely scenario: You have a decent woman who loves you, but is unable to significantly change her ways. And as long as she knows that you'll come back to her, and that you won't reject her if she makes a diversion or two, she's ready to work things out. She might be of the type who says nothing if you come home late from work, or feels noticeably looser when you return from a business trip. And, as above, she may be willing to accept some less socially acceptable behaviour (clubs, the hotel bar, a pair of handcuffs, etc.)

But, it's your life. Do as you will, I have nothing to do with it.
(Yes, I did see your first posts. Good on you for measuring above average.)
 

Notaguru2

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Gee... Milbury. It's a good thing that you're not a psychic - you're terrible at it. You made some wild assumptions about me from looking at a pic? Thankfully, you couldn't be more wrong about me that what you've said. It's actually fairly revealing that you spent so much time responding. I'm sorry to say though, I got to about the third sentence and you lost me. What a glorious waste of your time. =)

It's too bad you couldn't have been more helpful. Thanks anyway.

It seems likely her lack of sex drive was linked to her anti-depressants and some other things we've been discussing. She started anti-depressants several years ago when I had frequent business travels. Since I've been home she was unable to ween herself from them without the help of a doctor. She is nearly weened now and while things have improved, I look forward to the day she is completely dried out.

See, sometimes there are simple solutions to some of life's bigger problems.

Thanks to those who had reasonable, worthwhile things to say. To the rest of you... you must be lonely.
 
D

deleted356736

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This is a common problem with Western women, so common that there have been repeated studies as to why the Western female sex drive drys up a few years into a relationship. As a counterpoint, it was found that women married to men who were better educated or significantly better money earners generally maintained a high libido.

This converse led researchers to believe that women in these relationships trade sex to keep a man who they regard as a good catch, although it doesn't help up with the majority of men who only get extremely irregular sex. It does, however, indicate that libido is not necessary for a woman to agree to sex or to encourage sex.

THE female sex drive starts sputtering to a halt as soon as a woman has got her man, according to a new study.

Researchers have found that women's libido plummets so rapidly when they believe they are in a secure relationship that after just four years the proportion of 30-year-old women wanting regular sex falls below 50 per cent. There are few things that appear able to keep a woman sexually interested, the study found, but living apart for extended periods can help.

The findings for women contrast with those for men, whose sexual appetite hardly flagged at all up to 40 years after marriage.

The study, by researchers at Hamburg-Eppendorf University in Germany, challenges the popular image of modern women as equal to men in sexual appetite.
"Female motivation matches male sexual motivation in the first years of the partnership and then steadily decreases," concludes Dietrich Klusmann, the medical psychologist who conducted the study.

"Male motivation remains constant regardless of the duration of the partnership." Dr Klusmann questioned more than 500 people about their sex lives in order to measure changes in their libido. He found that within a year of a relationship starting, female libido moved into steep decline. While 60 per cent of 30-year-old women reported wanting sex "often" at the start of a relationship, the figure fell to below 50per cent within four years and to about 20 per cent after 20 years.
Dr Klusmann, whose work will be published this week in the journal Human Nature, has compared his findings to the sexual habits of prairie voles and offers an evolutionary explanation.

He believes that women, having found a man with whom to procreate, keep "resources" scarce to keep the man interested. Men, on the other hand, maintain a higher sex drive in the hope of keeping their mate faithful and other men at bay.
The Germans found, however, that living apart slows the decline in female libido, confirming the maxim "absence makes the heart grow fonder".

Women whose husbands or boyfriends have higher educational qualifications than their own also maintain their sex drive. This, speculates Dr Klusmann, is because such men are regarded as a "valuable mate of choice" by other women.

The German study is reinforced by an investigation by Mary Carole Pistole of Purdue University in Indiana, whose work suggests the healthiest relationships are among people whose loved ones live hundreds of kilometres away.
Paula Hall, a sexual psychotherapist with Relate, a couples guidance service, backed the German study. She said that in the first two years of a relationship both partners produced phenylethylamine, a natural amphetamine that has been called the chemical of love. "After those two years the woman's sexual drive changes," said Dr Hall. "She becomes receptive rather than proactive and unless there is a trigger she will prefer to have a cup of tea and watch Coronation Street."

Dr Klusmann's researchers also asked respondents whether they agreed with the statement "I just want to be tender". On this measure, men's performance fell off as quickly as women's sexual desire. Women's desire for tenderness remains an almost constant 90 percent whatever their age and regardless of whether they have been with the same man for one year or four decades.
 

Milbury

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Gee... Milbury. It's a good thing that you're not a psychic - you're terrible at it. You made some wild assumptions about me from looking at a pic? Thankfully, you couldn't be more wrong about me that what you've said. It's actually fairly revealing that you spent so much time responding. I'm sorry to say though, I got to about the third sentence and you lost me. What a glorious waste of your time. =)

It's too bad you couldn't have been more helpful. Thanks anyway.

It seems likely her lack of sex drive was linked to her anti-depressants and some other things we've been discussing. She started anti-depressants several years ago when I had frequent business travels. Since I've been home she was unable to ween herself from them without the help of a doctor. She is nearly weened now and while things have improved, I look forward to the day she is completely dried out.

See, sometimes there are simple solutions to some of life's bigger problems.

Thanks to those who had reasonable, worthwhile things to say. To the rest of you... you must be lonely.

Thanks for the response and confirmation of your board status, troll. I posted it for two reasons.

1. To get some of that stuff off of my chest
and
2. To help out people who are suffering from loveless marriages (and not just trying to create flame bait on Internet forums. Yeah, I figured you out after I read some of your post history.) Seriously, you complain about the lack of sexual attention from your wife, then suddenly make a comment about how she's addicted to anti-depressants? Are you that fucking clueless? Did you really think that noone else on the board would have been able to pin her lack of libido on antidepressants? They're advertised on television, and it's one of the side effects mentioned in the commercials!

Either way, I hope that my thread may help people with legitimate marital issues, or at least drum up some more business on my end.
 

Notaguru2

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Either way, I hope that my thread may help people with legitimate marital issues, or at least drum up some more business on my end.

The anti-depressants were/are only part of the problem. I've taken responsibility for other issues and she is working on the things from her end. Your shallow perspective on relationships demonstrates how little you really know about them. Try having a 20 year marriage before you claim to know anything about complex relationships.

Troll? I think you need to look up the definition and reevaluate your own status. Get 50 posts under your belt before you start throwing name calling around - you're obviously only here for the porn.
 
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