Lagerfeld is a total asshole. guys and gals should speak out

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Flashy, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. Flashy

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    against this douchebag...
    "No one wants to see curvy women. You've got fat mothers with their bags of chips sitting in front of the television and saying thin models are ugly. Fashion is about dreams and illusions."


    -Karl Lagerfeld.
     
  2. goodwood

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    Hmmm. Well, i can't disagree that the guy is an ass hole. As far as "no one wanting to see curvy women" i think he was talking about on the catwalks and in ads. I am sure lots of people (men and women) want to see curvy women. One need not look very hard or far to see them though.
    My mother was a model and as a very young child, I saw her on the catwalk and she was extremely thin. That is the fashion standard/ideal. She is now in her 50s and is ' normal' in proportion compared to her insanely thin model weight.
    While fashion is about dreams and illusions, Lagerfeld's caustic attitude is certainly not 'curvy friendly'.
     
  3. Flashy

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    I agree...

    IMO, you can still have curvy women that look good in clothes...

    look at Sofia Vergara...her curves are mind blowing...i would much rather see her on a catwalk than some scarecrow.

    to suggest that there cannot be curvy women on the runway is stupid...

    i mean seriously...BAr Rafaeli, Sofia Vergara, Scarlett Johansson, curves look *AWESOME*...maybe herr lagerfeld simply is not creative enough and his dreams and illusions are rather limited.
     
  4. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Oh come on, an out of context quote ? Who knows what he was addressing and what his actual point was.

    I agree that if that really represents his actual attitude that its pretty crass, but it's commonly enough held in the fashion industry.

    The wider point that it is extremely unfair for fashion designers to have to operate under the weight of the expectations and opinions of a wide variety of social interest groups is a valid one. Fashion designers are creatives and the notion that they are responsible for wider social trends, such as teenage eating disorders is intrinsically inhibitive of the creative process.

    A war is being waged on how society deals with certain issues, the fashion industry is a battle field of that war. Anorexia and other body image related disorders represent a failure of public healthcare systems to address the needs of the public they should be caring for not some fictional, insidious anti-woman, anti-fat brain-washing campaign masterminded by fashion designers. Indeed the drive within society for "thiness" has been chugging along nicely without any prompting from designers.

    It's certainly not OK that Lagerfeld chooses to denigrate anyone but he's responding to a totally media driven and unfair focus on creatives, which is a waste of time since the real focus should be on the woeful state of many countries mental health provision systems.

    If it's the responsibility of the creative to respond to the mental health of every possible viewer of their work then frankly we creatives should just give up creating all together.


    Of course curvy women are beautiful, but Lagerfeld is probably making the point that his own aesthetic should not have to respond to the latest hot button issue media campaigns.
     
    #4 D_Tim McGnaw, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  5. nudeyorker

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  6. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Yes he's a total freak, and yes he's a complete arsehole, but he is one of the greatest fashion deisgners in the world, and without him there probably be no Haute Couture industry.
     
  7. nudeyorker

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    I disagree about him being the greatest designer, I think Chanel must be rolling in her grave. But fashion like everything else is purely subjective and we are each entitled to our opinion; as is he no matter how misguided.
     
  8. Flashy

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    not exactly out of context, though

    Karl Lagerfeld weighs in on skinny models debate | Culture & Lifestyle | Deutsche Welle | 12.10.2009
     
  9. jason_els

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    The man is brilliant and he sells what people want. His Chanel collections have been exceptional.

    That doesn't mean he's a nice guy or even good-looking himself. He's a man of exceptional creative talent and he knows the fashion business well enough to stay relevant in it for over four decades. He makes the bottom line fat and black, which is what investors want to see.

    Media can attempt to foist any image of beauty as defined by the people who are trying to sell you a lot of product with very high mark-up. It's up to us to remind ourselves of this and not be such tools of corporate greed.

    His statement is largely correct. Fashion sells best when it sells a fantasy. Mystique and cachet bring prestige and desirability to luxury items. Sometimes it even helps if they're well-made, but not always. The more impossible a dream seems to be, like alarming thinness, then the more that dream becomes tangible when you walk into store and plunk down your card to buy an item made by that company (Chanel in his case). You're buying a slice of fantasy, not reality. We forget that at our peril.
     
  10. D_Tim McGnaw

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    I didn't say the greatest, he's certainly not my pick for that title. But he is extremely gifted even if you don't like his work, just as I wouldn't hang a Turner in my home but I recognise the man's genius.

    And his contribution to the continuance of a huge array of traditional french Haute couture related crafts is unmatched, they would simply have vanished without his commitment to them.
     
  11. jason_els

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    hilaire did say, "one of." I agree Chanel would likely be considered the greatest of the 20th century. I can't think of any one person who so influenced women's fashions to such a degree though Halston (before he sold his soul) and Givenchy come close.
     
  12. jason_els

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    Agreed. European tailoring and craftsmanship remains the finest in the world partly due to his efforts to keep the skills of these master craftspeople alive.
     
  13. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Pierre Balmain, Madeleine Vionnet, Jeanne Lanvin, Christian Dior, Cristóbal Balenciaga, Yves Saint Larent, and Valentino have to be up there too I think.
     
  14. nudeyorker

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    I don't think the Wertheimer family would ever have let the
    Chanel brand disappear. All KL did to the collection was exaggerate the proportions, colors and the use of accessories He has cloned the concept, he did not create anything new. He brought Chanel to the masses to accommodate a new generation. But if you compare the cut and quality of Chanel and KL for Chanel the difference is startling. I think Jacqueline Smith could have done a better job merchandising it at K-Mart.
    In terms of the lines that should have disappeared and not have been tried to be reinvented are...
    Halston, Balenciaga, Dior and Perry Ellis because no one understood what they were trying to capture and achieved in their designs and have become a status symbol to some who have no notion of what the brand once was.
    The true talents that no one can revive are Fortuny, Vionnet, Mainbocher. Schiaparelli, Bill Blass, Courreges.
    My only point is there will always be someone else to take the place of another designer and hopefully they will look at the industry through fresh eyes, and make something wearable with beautiful fabrics. Hopefully the fashion press will embrace it and feature it without the notion of how much advertising money they are contributing to this months "Yellow Press For The Fashion Victims."
    However most of the woman who were wearing the beautiful creations of days past are dead and in addition the events in which to wear them are mostly from a by gone era.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that "Haute Couture" really does not exist anymore.(for me) It's just a lot of really unwearable rags made out of horrible fabric with lack luster quality. But Vogue says it's hot and everyone believes them. I said in a previous post that fashion is subjective and we are all entitled to our opinions which makes what I just said neither right or wrong, simply an opinion.
     
    #14 nudeyorker, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  15. jason_els

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    Yes! I'm sure you know much more about fashion than I do as I'm not even sure what Vionnet did though I recognize the name! I definitely need to learn more though I do truly appreciate the exquisite skills that these people have. My great aunt was very fond of pre-war Balenciaga. Her family still has a few gowns they loan to costume exhibits from time to time. The workmanship is mind-blowing.
     
  16. jason_els

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    I agree nudey. I was going through a copy of Out today and saw some ads for Perry Ellis and it saddened me because I thought none of the designs looked like his style at all. They should have let his brand die with him. And I certainly loudly proclaim the same with Halston. Of all the fashion brands out there, none has been reduced to such ruin as Halston. It's a tragedy because I think it diminishes his enormous contribution to fashion.

    Couture may be largely dead as we knew it to be. I too didn't think it would survive but apparently it has. I watched E! last spring and they were doing the Paris show and remarked that the market for couture has changed. More Europeans, Asians, and middle eastern women are buying couture while the American market for it has diminished. I think there are only eight couturiers left in France but what struck me was that (again according to E!) the most successful of them is Elie Saab. Apparently the simpler, plainer, perhaps easier to wear costumes she makes tend to sell the most even if they don't have as high a profile if, perhaps, due to lack of outrageousness.
     
  17. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Vionnet basically invented Bias Cut design, and as many many curvy women will attest, that really was revolutionary :tongue:
     
  18. Empathizer

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    I think both of them have to take a backseat to Dior, who pretty much invented the New Look, and whose house is responsible for Diorissimo Eau de Parfum Spray, which is the only appropriate date night perfume for the over-40 bombshell set.
     
  19. nudeyorker

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    You brought to mind the point that I neglected to make earlier. Most of the houses will spend multi-millions of dollars to keep the house going to promote the fragrance and cosmetic ventures which bring in billions in sales based on the image.
     
  20. D_Tim McGnaw

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    Nor would I demure from what your saying. Except that I wasn't really talking about Lagerfeld having saved Chanel, I was pointing out that a large industry used to exist, consisting of the world's most expert and unique craftspeople who supplied any number of specific skills to the Haute Couture industry, lacemakers, Beaders, Sequiners, specialist Embroiderers, the list is huge. The collapse of Haute Couture saw collapse in these crafts because what they make is so laboriously constructed and expensive that no other part of the industry could make using them cost effective.

    Lagerfeld by maintaining Chanel's commitment to Haute Couture has insured the continued existence of a host of these ancient and exquisit crafts, regardless of his actual worth as a designer he has to get credit for that.

    As both and artist and a craftsperson myself, I can accept that my work is not to other people's taste sometimes, as wold many of those who work in contemprary Haute Coutre too I'm sure. But writing off their work as rags, and horrible is not an merely an expression of personal opinion but a denigration of the expert labour of many people who work harder than most people could probably imagine. I presume that your opinion is based on a keen understanding, perhaps of a first hand nature, of what it takes to be even an apprentice Beader at one of the best atelier ?
     
    #20 D_Tim McGnaw, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
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