Race and America

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by warmsunshine, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. warmsunshine

    warmsunshine New Member

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    Since the Abu Ghraib thread is basically starting to turn into this subject, I thought I would create a new topic regarding this in particular.

    I think a great place to start is the PBS series a year or so ago entitled Race, The Power of an Illusion.

    For someone who was taught in primary school the myth of the "Three Races" theory (and subsequently in college learned better), this series was a godsend.
     
  2. Dr. Dilznick

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    Lewontin's fallacy, anyone?
     
  3. Dr. Dilznick

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    Lewontin's fallacy.

    In popular articles that play down the genetical differences among human populations, it is often stated that about 85% of the total genetical variation is due to individual differences within populations and only 15% to differences between populations or ethnic groups. It has therefore been proposed that the division of Homo sapiens into these groups is not justified by the genetic data. This conclusion, due to R.C. Lewontin in 1972, is unwarranted because the argument ignores the fact that most of the information that distinguishes populations is hidden in the correlation structure of the data and not simply in the variation of the individual factors. The underlying logic, which was discussed in the early years of the last century, is here discussed using a simple genetical example.



    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...0&dopt=Abstract
     
  4. Njal

    Njal New Member

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    Just out of curiosity, Dr. Dilznick and ChimeraTX, what exactly do you believe constitute the main differences (beyond appearances) between the races? And please back up what you say with some data.
     
  5. warmsunshine

    warmsunshine New Member

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    And how many "races" do you think there are, anyway, according to Chimera?
     
  6. madame_zora

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    Sorry, but as detailed as these discussions may get, they're really only happening to distract someone from the fact that they (like most others) are really talking about black and white as if they were races. It's still just bullshit to justify more bullshit. Chimera has already admitted he thinks white people are superior, now he tries to act like it never happened. Bullshit, lies and stupidity, let's stop feeding this troll.
     
  7. warmsunshine

    warmsunshine New Member

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    Don't bother to add any more of your "data" Chimera. If it's anything like the blatently bigoted crap you've already proviced, no one here with a rational mind is interested.

    Interesting and (unintentionally hilarious) description of the various "races" of mankind, BTW. Why did you stop at seven, by the way? Race is a social, not physical classification, so why not include every combination of "mixing" in addition to the original seven.

    ANYWAY, You're probably right Madame Z. But this troll is kind of like a particularly large and ugly scab. You sometimes want to just pick at it until it's gone.
     
  8. KinkGuy

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    I think I know where some of the "data" is coming from. Stormfront.org. A white supremist board.

    Edit: Excuse me while I go throw up.
     
  9. Njal

    Njal New Member

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    Ok, Chimera, you posted one link to a serious study that basically said that a DNA analysis can identify which continent your ancestors came from and another link to a picture of different craniae. Surely, since you're so concerned about preserving the different races, you must worry about more substantial differences than that. The preservation of cranial diversity doesn't quite seem to justify it.
     
  10. madame_zora

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    I never said that. Why don't you leave this thread alone?
    [post=332155]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/b][/quote]


    Goddammit, I already reposted in once you fucking liar! I'll be damned if I'm going to let you lie to people while I remain silent. Fuck you, you fucking prick. You're not having me run around doing little chores for you, I see right through you and I will NOT sit here and let you ruin this site! We are NOT white supremacists nor do we appreciate YOU.
     
  11. major_7

    major_7 New Member

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    I'm in total agreement with you on this one. The little darling should be heading back to his oppressive life of schoolbooks soon. Hopefully, they'll teach him a lesson or two about reality. But then again, his narrow LITTLE mind cannot be pried open even with a crowbar, so it's probably pointless now. Hopefully, he'll use up all of his sperm jerking off over his Storm Troopers and will never be able to procreate.
     
  12. Lex

    Lex
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    In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
    Chimera--you're whole vibe is a serious buzzkill.
    Aren't there arian big dick fora that you could join?
    It's one thing for you to let you feeling be known--quite another
    to continue to reinterate them over and over ad nauseum knowing
    how the majority here feel. You insite people with your garabage (MY WORDS)
    and then stand silently when you get cursed at as if you are somehow the
    bigger person.

    Being able to trace DNA back to a continent is about as meaningless
    as being able to put an insult in your .sig as some kind of absurd war
    scar.

    No early humans stayed on their continent of birth, so what's the point anyway?
    What about the studies that trace all humanity back to Africa?

    (These are rhetotical questions)
     
  13. KinkGuy

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    If we ignore it, will it go away?
     
  14. Njal

    Njal New Member

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    Chimera, you didn't comment on my previous post, so I'll ask you directly. You've repeatedly stated that you're not a white supremacist but you're against mixing races. When asked what the differences between the various races were, all you could come up with was a picture of skulls and a study that unsurprisingly showed that, yes, DNA can be traced back. Now, given that you want to preserve each race, exactly what unique traits is each race suppossed to possess that you think are so important that they need to be preserved? As I stated before, the value of cranial diversity isn't very obvious to me.
     
  15. Lex

    Lex
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    Njal--you're really wasting your keystrokes. We've all been there, done that and bought the T-Shirt.

    *sigh*

    KinkGuy-a man can hope, can't he?
     
  16. Dr Rock

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    who lives in the east 'neath the willow tree? Sex

    because nobody should have to wade through your endless dungheaps of sociopolitical self-justification in their search for intelligent discourse, that's why. nobody was interested in reading your drivel in the first place, but you've failed to take the hint - one person after another has asked you nicely to drop the whole thing and get a life, but you've continued to pursue it until you've now reached the point at which a large number of people are telling you to either get over yourself or get out.


    Not to me. :woohoo:
    [post=332261]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/quote]
    ... which is exactly why everybody is laughing at you. don't kid yourself; you're not gonna make yourself into some kind of misunderstood internet martyr to the aryan race. most of us have seen frustrated teenagers make public idiots of themselves far too many times for it to be interesting anymore.
     
  17. KinkGuy

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    But I'm afraid the next time I'm in Texas, he'll be the one behind the counter at the QuickieStop. Oh, that's right, only illegal aliens get the really good jobs.
     
  18. GottaBigOne

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    Just because Chimera may have some views that aren't very popular does not mean he should not have the riight to put forth arguments for his views. I found the things he had to say, especially what he said to madam about inequality to be well put. I think the problem comes in to play because when someone starts talking about inequality then there usually follows the assumption of superiority whcih then gives birth to a bunch of different problems. Its the history of the concept of inequality which taints everyone's perception of Chimera's views. He has said numerous times in this thread that he does not believe that white are superior, only that he believes that the races are not all equal in all respects, I happen to agree with him to a point. I do not go far as to think that anyone of a certain race will be different than anyone else of a different race in a certain respect just because they are members of different races, but it is not unlikely that as a whole their are certains things other than skin pigmentation that are different among the races. This is not to say that the differences are momumental or even any more than slight.
    The only reason I agree though is because it is almost irrefutable that not all men are created equal, but i think Chimera went about the wrong way of stating it or at least he failed to expound. I would put it "all men are equal only in respect to being human and all the 'rights' that entails, but when it comes to issues of intelligence, physical prowess etc, all humans are not equal." Think about it folks, equality is a very rigid matheamatical concept and should be applies with care. Two humans, one with an I.Q. of 120 and the other with 60 are not equal in respect to their measured intelligence. I am not equal, and i was not born equal to Charles Barkeley in respect to height. Does that make Charles Barkeley superior to me? Only in respect to our natural abilities to play basketball and reach apples in tall trees( by the way I would kill Mr. Barkeley in Golf, have you even seen him try to swing a club? it looks like he doing everything but trying to actually hit the ball). Should everybody be treated equally?? No. Someone who is mentally retarded although human should not be the president of the united states or hold any other such important position. Does this mean that the reatrded have no "right" to live, or do anything? No. They can serve their purpose and live meaningful lives, but only up to the point of their abilities. Does this mean that racism is justified? No. Because being a member of a race does not mean their is a limit to your abilites and that you should not afforded the same opportunites as anyone else.
    Chimera has not said that he thinks white's are superior so far as I have read. He has only said that he believes it is better for society to keep the races separate and to not interbreed. Does this imply that he may feel that the genes of another race might "taint" the genepool of his race? Sure, it is implied but he may also be saying that white genes would pollute the genepool of blacks, hispanics, and asians. Do I agree with him? No. I think that the more the races mix the better because if there are certain differences between the races where one may have a slight advantage in a certain respect than the others than the sharing of genetic information would level out the differences and make the resulting "mix-race" stronger. Yes it would average it out a bit, but it would certainly not just resolve everything to the lowest common denominator. I think it extremely close minded to limit one's potential spouises based on purely race because if we were to "rate" everyone to see who is better at this or superior at that and were able to come up with a best possible candidate to mix our genes with and that person was of another race then logic would tell us that that person, regardless of race, would be the best person in which to mix our genes with for the next generation. Now I know that this brings up the whole notion of racial cleansing in order to get out the "undesirables" but I think natural selection will do that anyway in the long run, and the differences between people probably aren't substantial enough to warrant the extermination of any one whole person let alone an entire race. Its ridiculous to say that any one person who lacks trait X shouldn't have kids, because they may have other traits that are desirable.
    I know I am going to have to explain some of my points further so I will do so when they are brought up I only ask that you treat my points with at least a little more respect than you treated Chimera's and only make substantial counter-points and arguments.
     
  19. smallman

    smallman New Member

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    Look man, speaking as a white male, the only color I care about is green.
     
  20. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    Black, white, or green...
    Ugly is still ugly, isn't it?
     
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