Spreading the dis-ease

[Chuck64]

:::In his Martin Luther King Jr. voice:::::::

Ameeeeeeen sista'. May the invisible goblin that resides in Martha Stewart's holy cooch grant its blessings upon thee. I see a light atop thine clitoris.

I'm still waiting for the complete self destruction of the human race. Hopefully, a decent species will then have a chance to evolve. Or be intellegently designed. Or made. Or deposited. Whatever.

or crawl out of Martha Stewart's cooch...

 

[JustAsking]

Let me see if I got this right. A nation threatened by terrorism, elects a war-mongering regime that might not be good for their civil liberties. Nah, that's not likely.

 

[Webster]

I wish we could have a woman as president. I believe that most women would go to war and risk the lives of our children, CHILDREN!!!, only as a very last resort.
The stupid men in charge don't seem to understand (or care) that somebody's son or daughter was killed, KILLED!!!

This is an endless, unwinnable morass, just like Viet Nam.
We'll never learn.................

 

[davidjh7]

or crawl out of Martha Stewart's cooch...

You just HAD to say it, didn;t you? :biggrin1:

 

[ClaireTalon]

One could say it was a good idea, but badly executed and not appreciated y those who were chosen to get it.

It would have been worth the effort if there had been a real effort to allow a smooth transition from dictatorship to democracy in iraq, and if we hadn't been made believe that the switch can be done in a day. The process of introducing democractic structures had taken 4 years in Germany after WW-II, and it had taken them another 20 years to completely clean the power structures of members with national socialistic past. And that was a country who had a (short, nevertheless) democratic tradition. Did anyone really believe it could take a year or less in Iraq, a country where democracy is a completely unknown concept, a country that has been a monarchy and dictatorship for centuries?

By above standards, Iraq would need at least 4 years of occupation and a systematic cleaning of persons who had been in power under Hussein's regime, accompanied by covering programs introducing democratic principles in all situations and all parts of the population, before a new government could have been put in place there.

I love irony, I really do. It's nice to know we've spent billions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of lives of our young people so that some people in the middle east could elect what we consider a terrorist organisation to lead them.


Chaos In Iraq

"Hamas' landslide victory in Palestinian elections unnerved the world, darkening prospects for Mideast peace and ending four decades of rule by the corruption-riddled Fatah Party."

Waddaya think girls and boys? Besides higher oil prices than ever, do you think it was worth the effort?

 

[Lex]

Lex, I love and respect you. You know that. And I hear where you're coming from, though I detect a little bit of overstatement in what you just wrote, for rhetorical effect.

But there are plenty of Americans who DO talk the way you just wrote, and mean it. They believe an American's right to fill the tank of his Escalade on borrowed Sino-Japanese money is more important than the right of an individual non-American to cast his vote as he sees fit.

We're pretty much blowing shit up, scowling and daring anyone to take Iraq back, and a large number are taking up the dare. The US is fighting the best it can, and still finds it tough to win. The only thing half-assed about the war effort is how the administration is under-resourcing it. And that's not the result of PC pressure...or PC "bullying" as you put it. That's the administration facing the grim fact that the might-makes-right version of "bullying" isn't the most cost-efficient, nor necessarily successful, way to get what you want.

A democratically elected government, behaving in a way that we like, is cheaper than having to occupy someplace--so let's not get carried away thinking that our commitment to "democracy" stems entirely from PC motives.

Whether the motives you ascribe to the US are true or not, really doesn't matter at this point. Large parts of the world have decided they agree with you, Lex. Being "honest" about it would have little impact, politically or militarily.

I agree that the PC solution to world problems is often ineffectual and bogus. But that ain't the case here. Flexing your muscles doesn't guarantee success, either.

What do we do, then? How about use less oil?

HB8

P.S. I don't often get involved in debates like this on the LPSG, because it can undermine the supportive atmosphere. But I do it with you, Lex, because I'm sure we'll have a thoughtful exchange. In truth, we probably agree on many things.

Headbang--I appreciate you taking time to respond. I usually save my loner posts for other issues besides politics because (like religion) you rarely change anyone's mind with discourse.

I should be clear that I don't ascribe to the HONEST method I mentioned. I just hate being blatantly lied to. Our politicians use the nations lack of attnetion span and intelliegence to spin things the way they want to all the time. It's sad.

We won't use less oil, because the oil companies are in the back pockets of the politicians. Large corporations set our country's agenda. It's been this way for w rather long time now.

And as Dr. Rock has said--they can find him and bring him out at any time. They are waiting for dramatic effect.

 

[madame_zora]

Lex, I'm betting on around June of 2007 we'll start hearing about him drumming up support in a new "underground regime". It has to be close enough to the election, but not so long before that the attention span of the idiot voters has time to wane. If we appear to be in imminent danger, the repubs will have an easier time at the polls. Osama should be good for that.

 

[Shelby]

We certainly are a bunch of stupid greedy wasteful imperialist bastards.

I propose we all move back to Europe or Africa or wherever the hell we came from and give the damn place back to its rightful owners.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Yes, Madame, you just lick your little chops over the irony, don't you? What our idiot-son president and all his stage-mother cabinet just don't get is that Iraq/Mesopotamia has NEVER HAD a democratic or republican/representational type of government... I'm talking about like for what, the last 6000 years? That is just not a part of their cultural comprehension. Of course, georgie loves to dismiss anyone else he considers to be "imperialist" as uncivilized, yet he gets it in his head to enforce his ideas of "best government" on a civilization who don't want it. Then he is surprised that in the elections that we sponsored, the group he hates most wins the plurality.

The current administration's entire foreign policy has been built on faulty intelligence, bad advice, wrong actions, and a failure to have a gestalt view of foreign relations. "Plan A" is badly developed, poorly executed, and there is no "Plan B." Our military jumped in there with the "shock-and-awe" theory, assuming that we pop off a few fireworks, and the entire country will roll over for us to rub their bellies. Uh, since history started being recorded, they have not done that with any other invaders/colonialists, I dont' know why our idiots expected them to start now. When the shock and awe plan A didn't work, there was no plan B, and they have been "winging it" since. One good thing, though, if we DON'T withdraw troops, and leave them there indefinitely, then we have a fabulous stepping-stone when it is time for us to invade Iran/Persia. Maybe shock and awe will work there..............

 

[Chuck64]

DC_DEEP has a point.

There was a interesting poll a few months back. I don't remember the exact statistics, except for the 8% overlap. I remember a few months back, the Bush administration had like a 40% approval rating, but 68% of voters thought Bush didn't have a plan for Iraq.

While I personally thought the whole 40% were (and most likely still are) weak-minded sheep, I was especially pissed off at the 8% overlap who thought he was doing a good job while pulling "peace" strategies out of his ass.

 

[SurferGirlCA]

Personally, I'm wondering how far off from the mid-term elections the "orange alert" switch starts getting thrown again.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Oh, I know, it's just such a farce that we're supposed to be over there to bring stability to the middle east, while they're busy ELECTING terrorist groups to represent them. Maybe I didn't make my point well, I was too busy laughing.

I would argue that it's probably a necessary step. The "revolution" usually dies down once the rebels get bogged down in having to fix potholes and keep the power on. This will probably happen a couple more times in Palestine before someone responsible emerges.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

I'm not sure finding Osama is such a good idea.

What happens if they find him? A trial? An execution? Either way, count on tons of protests, martyrdom, and a few thousand willing volunteers to carry on his work.

It *would* be interesting to be his defence counsel and to call members of the Bush family as character references. After all, they're old chums.

No, I think the Rumcheneys are quite content to continue to have Osama as their Emmanuel Goldstein in perpetuity.

I've always thought that the best scenario would be for bin Laden to be dead under a cave somewhere and no one ever finds his body to be sure. If he dies he'll be a martyr. If we catch him, then it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Number 51]

I've always thought that the best scenario would be for bin Laden to be dead under a cave somewhere and no one ever finds his body to be sure. If he dies he'll be a martyr. If we catch him, then it's more trouble than it's worth.

I think bin Laden's been playing the role of El Cid for a long time. You see all sorts of al-Qaeda big shots sending out tapes to rouse the masses, but it's been over four years since we've seen fresh video of bin Laden, which is really contrary behavior for a guy who used to record new video for every conceivable occasion. Either he's dead or he's in such bad shape that it'd be a morale-killer to see him. In any event, he's still useful to al-Qaeda to prop up on his horse and ride him into battle.

 

[madame_zora]

I think bin Laden's been playing the role of El Cid for a long time. You see all sorts of al-Qaeda big shots sending out tapes to rouse the masses, but it's been over four years since we've seen fresh video of bin Laden, which is really contrary behavior for a guy who used to record new video for every conceivable occasion. Either he's dead or he's in such bad shape that it'd be a morale-killer to see him. In any event, he's still useful to al-Qaeda to prop up on his horse and ride him into battle.

Oh shit, he's Kaiser Soze!

 

[jakeatolla]

Oh shit, he's Kaiser Soze!

HA! That funny.

Where's Kevin Spacey ? Has anyone ever seen him and
Osama together in the same room ?

 

[DC_DEEP]

Personally, I'm wondering how far off from the mid-term elections the "orange alert" switch starts getting thrown again.

Ha, SurferGirl, you should try living in this area when they start that shit. Most everyone agrees that it is simply another part of their "ruse arsenal" to keep the people scared - what I call "keeping the herd in sheep mode." It works for a short while, keeps everyone stirred up - but eventually, the monotony numbness sets in. Just like another case in point - During the sniper scare here, the idiot police chief in DC came up with a brilliant idea: any time a DC police officer is in his patrol car, he has the lights flashing. Period. Not in pursuit, not doing anything, but the lights are on. He figured it would "make their presence more obvious" but everyone has gotten so used to it now, that it really has no effect other than to annoy. Same with our colorful "terror alert levels." More than a couple of days in any particular mode, and the masses simply adjust to it. What really annoys me is that they start closing off PUBLIC ROADS AND SIDEWALKS and start checking identification before they let you walk on those public areas. Fascists.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I find it curious that in our so-called security conscious nation, a nut-job was able to walk right into a federal facility and gun down several employees yesterday.

Does anyone pay attention to those color coded security alerts? I work in a federal office and I can't ever detect the slightest change in anything when the color code elevates.

 

[DC_DEEP]

I find it curious that in our so-called security conscious nation, a nut-job was able to walk right into a federal facility and gun down several employees yesterday.

Does anyone pay attention to those color coded security alerts? I work in a federal office and I can't ever detect the slightest change in anything when the color code elevates.

Lovely pic in your sig, SG... but it sure fucks up the window, makes it much wider than the default...and I have to scroll back and forth to be able to read the messages.... LOL please, use one a little less wide!

My partner works in a federal agency, and security is very tight in his building. I can't really speak about how other agencies handle their security. As for the color-coded alerts, they generally encompass stupid, annoying, ineffective harrassment techniques moreso than actual heightened security. Randomly stop and search people in the subway, or require ID to walk on public sidewalks... if they try that shit with me, we are gonna RUMBLE!

 

[invisibleman]

Dare to dream...but not too vocally. Remember what happens to everybody who has a dream in this country.

(Sarcasm) Or a differing viewpoint or the minority opinion on LPSG. Hehehehehe. A place where a black guy (Dr. Dilsnick) can post "white separatist" racist propaganda from The National Alliance and get away with it. Another black guy (Invisibleman) gets flamed by Dr. Dilsnik and Lex (another black guy) for letting Rob know about it.