Tone policing

[185248]

My experience in life is to never place another's beliefs or experiences within the confines of borders.

I look out at night, I see no borders, I feel no constraints. I wish to contribute my experience to the maelstrom of life. Sometimes the written word, minus the human touch does not convey what we want others to feel and experience. I can't help that this is what we all want. Universal expression, yet persuasion to move from one place of belief to a belief we can all relate to.

Sounds a little odd, but I remember you mentioning the times when you stopped breathing, your moments of memory, then darkness. Then coming back again and having memory of that.

I would like to work on from there as you expressed wishing to understand this yourself. I just think it has to do with connection.

I think and express outside of the square. The reason you are a friend is I read and understand your words. Most of the time you are searching for answers, sounds odd, but most of the people on here are also, they just don't know it

Whether you are a friend or not, to me is not important. Your story of your life, and it's experiences adds to mine, and everyone else's.

I remember your life's experiences AE. I doubt you would remember mine over the years.

That's why I can't afford too many friends in this virtual world

In real life also, I scare the shit out of people...

 

[deleted924715]

This is an internet forum. I will probably ruffle a few feathers here, yet again I have never been afraid to do this. I am not argumentative, I just state facts that relate to my own experiences.

If you feel you are wank fodder? Leave. If you feel you are intellectual matter? You are welcome, as any other individual anywhere that has access to a keyboard. But be aware, others will disagree with you and are not needing of a venomous tongue, but the challenge of fore thinking and clever mind.

For me, when someone mentions "wank fodder", it is degenerating the conversation. Women here are not more policed.

To be honest, I do think more women should join. But whose job is it to do this??? The male members? The site? Who? How about you tell your friends, you know, you have this site you go to where you can discus big cock, women, the universe, humour, bi, music etc, etc and everything in between.

But no, you don't, why? I understand your embarrassment to do this. Not, because my love is here too.

Would you feel weaker as a female in your friends eyes if they knew you visited here? Would you blame a bloke for you feeling this way?

I've told my mates, yet I'm 1 in in 100...bugger, I do not have 100 friends......< this is humour aussie style

Exhibit A

 

[deleted924715]

Few women here believe they are wank fodder. The problem is that some men here behave as if they are entitled to fantasy fulfilment. These individuals also behave as if they are speaking to stupid children. They call us girls after we tell them we are women. They pretend to be after answers to legitimate curiosities, but the veil is so thin any reasonably intelligent woman can see what is truly sought, especially after being subjected to various themes of the same game over and over. What do you know? These posts in solicitation of masturbation fuel are not directed at you. How dare you come over here to police the tone of a woman who knows? Mentioning wank fodder denigrates the conversation? Are you for real right now? Tell me this is one of your jokes and I just didn't get it. Get this: the person who feel entitled to attempt to manipulate other people into providing him fuel for his fantasies while treating them like they are his lessers has already denigrated any possible conversation before it began. And you? Telling grown women how to feel, and speak about that treatment in a thread ABOUT the reason you shouldn't tell people how to express their opinions on the way they feel about how they are treated is either a clever stroke of irony, or a real douchebag maneuver.

I literally couldn't have put it better - you stole the thoughts out of my head.

 

[185248]

Exhibit A

You are entitled to exhibit anything you wish is appropriate, if it is what I post, and your post....?. Thank you for your contribution.

I'm happy in my life walking away knowing in the real world I have contributed to very good things.

You probably have too. Who knows. Just as long as everyone agrees with your point of view. From what I gather.

 

[185248]

I literally couldn't have put it better - you stole the thoughts out of my head.

I have to admit, AE does argue well. This woman is way out of many peoples league, yours, and mine.

 

[693987]

Few women here believe they are wank fodder. The problem is that some men here behave as if they are entitled to fantasy fulfilment. These individuals also behave as if they are speaking to stupid children. They call us girls after we tell them we are women. They pretend to be after answers to legitimate curiosities, but the veil is so thin any reasonably intelligent woman can see what is truly sought, especially after being subjected to various themes of the same game over and over. What do you know? These posts in solicitation of masturbation fuel are not directed at you. How dare you come over here to police the tone of a woman who knows? Mentioning wank fodder denigrates the conversation? Are you for real right now? Tell me this is one of your jokes and I just didn't get it. Get this: the person who feel entitled to attempt to manipulate other people into providing him fuel for his fantasies while treating them like they are his lessers has already denigrated any possible conversation before it began. And you? Telling grown women how to feel, and speak about that treatment in a thread ABOUT the reason you shouldn't tell people how to express their opinions on the way they feel about how they are treated is either a clever stroke of irony, or a real douchebag maneuver.

You saved my having to write this. Pretty much every single word of what you just wrote, I agree with.

The details of the post being more specific to LPSG, of course. I'm in no way saying tone policing is only done by men to women. I've seen it happen from all kinds of demographics being done to other demographics.

 

[TexanStar]

I've seen it happen from all kinds of demographics being done to other demographics.

Like this (I just ignored it, but it's an example).

Don't get pregnant in my state. | LPSG

 

[AlteredEgo]

My experience in life is to never place another's beliefs or experiences within the confines of borders.

I look out at night, I see no borders, I feel no constraints. I wish to contribute my experience to the maelstrom of life. Sometimes the written word, minus the human touch does not convey what we want others to feel and experience. I can't help that this is what we all want. Universal expression, yet persuasion to move from one place of belief to a belief we can all relate to.

Sounds a little odd, but I remember you mentioning the times when you stopped breathing, your moments of memory, then darkness. Then coming back again and having memory of that.

I would like to work on from there as you expressed wishing to understand this yourself. I just think it has to do with connection.

I think and express outside of the square. The reason you are a friend is I read and understand your words. Most of the time you are searching for answers, sounds odd, but most of the people on here are also, they just don't know it

Whether you are a friend or not, to me is not important. Your story of your life, and it's experiences adds to mine, and everyone else's.

I remember your life's experiences AE. I doubt you would remember mine over the years.

That's why I can't afford too many friends in this virtual world

In real life also, I scare the shit out of people...

Vibesy, I think of you as gentle, well-meaning, and funny. When I do not agree with people, I usually tell them. That includes you, because certainly if I can tell a stranger what I think and feel, I can and should do the same with people I respect and trust. So, when I think you're onto something, count on me to joke or smile. However, when I do not see eye to eye with you, especially if I feel strongly about my opinion, I'll let you know that too.

 

[palakaorion]

I understand Tone Policing and agree it's a thing.

Personally, I have Outrage Fatigue. Far too many people in cyberspace and meatspace are far too enamored of their outrage for my tastes. And for some, if others aren't as outraged as them, that increases the outrage.

In those situations, I just make use of my privilege to leave the conversation. No reason to poke the bear.

 

[Brisler]

I have never understood the tone policing thing (I didn't know the term until now, but certainly knew the phenomenon and I've seen it here as well, from both men and women). Who wants a discussion about serious matters without anger and passion?

 

[Neller]

I have never understood the tone policing thing (I didn't know the term until now, but certainly knew the phenomenon and I've seen it here as well, from both men and women). Who wants a discussion about serious matters without anger and passion?

If I can't understand what the hell you're talking about because you're so angry and not being clear with what you're saying there's no discussion to be had. The only option the comic gives is to walk away, but then there's no discussion there either so is that really a solution?

I'm part of one the minority groups represented in the comic and I tune other people in my group out when they go off the handle and bitch about everything that's wrong with the world. Am I evoking privilege over my own group when I want them to calm down and have an actual discussion without them blaming the world for all their problems? I could just not talk to them, but then we'd never see if we can figure out a solution to what's bothering us.

I think what's being represented is more of a difference in personalities rather than people trying to control or dismiss other people. I can't stand people who yell or argue angrily no matter what they're talking about, but it doesn't mean I don't want to understand their issues. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing.

Yes.
There is a difference between asking someone to clarify their position, and dictating how they do so. Regarding how others in your group.choose to express themselves, it is perfectly acceptable to wish they'd adopt a communication style that makes you more comfortable. You don't get to direct them in most cases though.

 

[Neller]

Yes.
There is a difference between asking someone to clarify their position, and dictating how they do so. Regarding how others in your group.choose to express themselves, it is perfectly acceptable to wish they'd adopt a communication style that makes you more comfortable. You don't get to direct them in most cases though.

I guess for me it seems worse to completely ignore someone rather than try to engage them in a less confrontational manner. I know it's annoying to be told to calm down when you're angry about something, but isn't it better to be heard than to have the person walk away? Maybe the comic doesn't show proper examples for me.

 

[Neller]

I actually read a bit more about Tone Policing and then reread the comic. I think the comic doesn't do a good job portraying why it's a negative thing. Other stuff about it suggests tone policing as a way of shutting down a discussion completely because one side is considered unnecessarily emotional, the comic doesn't portray it that way, at least not to me.

 

[950483]

Keep going, you are paddling in shallow waters. This may come as a real surprise to you. But I really do not care what you think, you basically project a negative vibe.

Oh, I'm bitter and negative, am I? Have you completely missed what this thread is about? As one of my aunts used to say when she encountered a sexist joke, or was told she was taking things too seriously: " *sigh* I just have no sense of humour."

Part of the problem I have with you, is that I am not a fan of your vague and indirect communication style. When asked to clarify your meaning or intention you just don't. The other part of the problem is that if I have understood you correctly, even just in this thread, (and I did ask to make sure), then I am not a big fan of your negative misogynist vibes.

There have been a couple of interactions with you where I felt we did got along, or had struck an accord, but you subsequently made it clear that we don't. AE has known you longer and thinks that you are well meaning, but so far from my point of view and observations this is sadly not the case.

 

[Brisler]

If I can't understand what the hell you're talking about because you're so angry and not being clear with what you're saying there's no discussion to be had. The only option the comic gives is to walk away, but then there's no discussion there either so is that really a solution?

I'm part of one the minority groups represented in the comic and I tune other people in my group out when they go off the handle and bitch about everything that's wrong with the world. Am I evoking privilege over my own group when I want them to calm down and have an actual discussion without them blaming the world for all their problems? I could just not talk to them, but then we'd never see if we can figure out a solution to what's bothering us.

I think what's being represented is more of a difference in personalities rather than people trying to control or dismiss other people. I can't stand people who yell or argue angrily no matter what they're talking about, but it doesn't mean I don't want to understand their issues. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing.

Tone policing, as I understand it, has nothing to with trying to understand what someone is saying. It's more of a lazy way to actively ignore issues that aren't an issue to you (and I think we're all guilty of it to some degree and I don't think it's always a bad thing). When people say: "I just can't communicate with feminists. They're always too angry." (and how often have you heard men say that?), of course it's nothing more than a way to shut down communication. Other than containing a number of sexist stereotypes, it's just another way of saying: "I am right about stuff and you are overreacting, but I'm not going to defend that stance in any way ever."

But it's completely wrong. It's nearly alway completely wrong. I mean, these men probably can't communicate with feminists, but it's not because the feminists are angry. It's because communication with feminists, about feminism, requires for a man to accept that does not know a thing. That his position of privilege prevents him from truly understanding the issue. So it takes a whole lot of listening and learning. In other words, effort.

So when men say: "I just can't communicate with feminists. They're always too angry.", what they really are saying is: "Misogyny doesn't affect me personally in any way, so I don't care and I don't want to even try to understand it. Shut up or go whine in a corner and I'll go on with my merry day."

A complete shutdown of communication. And in many cases, a continuation of oppression.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

In a separate article, there's this passage:

Your hurt feelings are not always the priority.

Do not expect women or gender non-conforming people to coddle you through the uncomfortable feelings that come along with being called out.

The passage is referring to accidental manipulators.

So which is it? Do hurt feelings, and expressions of them, matter in discussions, or not?
Tone turns people off. When it turns people off, they aren't your ally.
So read your audience, and portray your experience evocatively.

If your side of a conversation sounds like the announcer for a monster truck race, you will lose audience.
And changing the world needs people to hear why it needs changing. (Hint, think of diapers. Why do those need changing?)

If your side of a discussion sounds like a cranky sixth grade English teacher, you lose audience.
Same for sounding like an ASPCA advert with slow, emotional music overlay.

Think about the stereotype of a vegan activist.
Or an NRA activist.
Think about how those deliveries are and are not effective.

And mostly, address others as people worthy of compassion, and able to express their own compassion.

Feelings have a place in discussions of injustice, but they really are a bit player.
Enslaving people is wrong, but not because it makes them sad. It's wrong because it commodities human beings, fractures families, sends boys and girls (and I'm using this in a legal sense, under age of legal majority) into factories, bordellos, wars and domestic servitude.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Commodifies human beings.
Damn autocorrect.

 

[AlteredEgo]

I think there's room on both sides of this issue for people to lean in. It the fact remains that in some conversations, the emotional response, the passion in the delivery, is half the point. The privileged respondent, instead of censoring that, instead of wanting to eradicate the emotion and only seeking to be comfortable, should ask what exactly the emotion is, what is causing it, and try to understand, questioning further for clarity as needed. Likewise, the emotional speaker should make sure the expression of emotion is appropriate, that he or she is not condescending, manipulative, nor disrespectful in other ways.

 

[Scarletbegonia]

Telling someone to engage with emotional speakers is dictating how they communicate, in some way.

While adapting and communicating in a space both/all find comfortable is ideal, can we tone police that?
I'm not sure that is valuable enough to be worth the effort.

I attempted to read a book by an English woman. It was listed as a feminist book, but in reality, it sounded like a contrived series of unfortunate events, and in the end, was unbelievable.
She was recounting more sexually charged interactions in a day than I get in three months.
Her tome and tone were ultimately too whiny to get her point across, although the her points were good.
I'm not naming it so that my view won't color others'.

Communication is a skill and a tool. Use it well. Know when someone isn't good with it.

In a one on one conversation, vulnerability on both sides is valuable and allows greater connection to each other, which subtly leads to connection with what the other is passionate about.


Heh. I read my post and I'm picturing two groups, one autistic, one dramatic, attempting to discuss something. It isn't going well. The battle of logic and emotion rages on.