Topping bareback

B_Nicodemous

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Thanks for all the comments. This happened 4.5 days ago so I guess I've missed the period for PEP. The health center at my university is closed over the weekend during the summer, so this morning would have been the first time I could get in :/. I guess I'm less concerned now that I know the risk was very, very low.

On another note, the HIV rapid testing program that I normally go to every 5-6 weeks is run through the local health department. They use 10 minute rapid tests from finger pricks and say that they are accurate 30 days post exposure. There's a huge difference between 30 days and the 13 weeks that is referenced in this thread...

Unless it's been changed very recently, the 13 week potential incubation period comes from the CDC, and it's known to be extremely conservative. When I was a contributing member of AIDSmeds/POZ, I was one of about five members deemed qualified to counsel people in their Am I Infected? forum, where we discussed risk scenarios precisely like this. The response I posted earlier is essentially identical to what I'd have posted there.

It's worth noting that throughout the EU and the state of Massachusetts six weeks is sufficient for the overwhelming majority of cases and is considered definitive. Thirty days is news to me, but I am slightly out of the loop since discontinuing my membership at Am/POZ about two years ago, so it's possible that the tests have been improved.

Personally I'd expect that you'll get a negative result, but you have my deepest consideration and empathy should you wind up otherwise: good luck.
Ok here is a link to the CDC about window periods, standard vs rapid antibody tests and RNA tests.

I should point out that, unless you misheard or misunderstood, your clinic was lax in implying that it is ALWAYS accurate within 30 days. Most have a detectable antibody level, but most is not the same as all.

Follow the advice given in the link (amazing how it relfects what we all have been saying...sometimes we old folk DO know what we are talking about:wink:)
 

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Good lord folks. Does he need to get tested? Yes. Does he need to panic? NO. I have been HIV+ since July 2005. I've been undetectable since March/April of 2006, and am on anti retro viral meds. My bf and I have been dating since Feb of last year. He tops me, BARE, and he's neg...STILL. Do we take special precautions? Yes. If I know he has a cut on his dick, or my hole is irritated from too much wiping, then we don't fuck. BBucko is correct- IF the dude was telling the truth about being undetectable (which seems fairly likely since he was upfront about his HIV status in the first place), then it would be near impossible to contract it from topping him, provided that plenty of lube was used so as not to unnecessarily tear any tissue. He should get tested on a regular basis, but from the information provided, he has nothing to panic about. It amazes me how many people cannot handle being rational persons when confronted with HIV+ people.
 

B_Nicodemous

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Good lord folks. Does he need to get tested? Yes. Does he need to panic? NO. I have been HIV+ since July 2005. I've been undetectable since March/April of 2006, and am on anti retro viral meds. My bf and I have been dating since Feb of last year. He tops me, BARE, and he's neg...STILL. Do we take special precautions? Yes. If I know he has a cut on his dick, or my hole is irritated from too much wiping, then we don't fuck. BBucko is correct- IF the dude was telling the truth about being undetectable (which seems fairly likely since he was upfront about his HIV status in the first place), then it would be near impossible to contract it from topping him, provided that plenty of lube was used so as not to unnecessarily tear any tissue. He should get tested on a regular basis, but from the information provided, he has nothing to panic about. It amazes me how many people cannot handle being rational persons when confronted with HIV+ people.
I am being very rational tomcat. If i wasn't I suspect Uncle Bb to have handed my ass to me by now. I am sure his chances are negligible. However he exhibited poor judgement in barebacking, especially if he is going to panic afterwards.

Your partner knows the risks (minimal, but present) and chooses to do so. Bully for him. Many of us would not bareback even in a top position those who are pos (though we may decide to play with condoms with poz people). This young man was NOT going to bareback, but got irritated at the lack of sensation, proceeded to bareback (even knowing, and worrying, however validly, about his cuts), and then afterwards decides to freak and to then come panicking to us.

I know I have tried to be helpful and kind. But kind does not mean handlle with kid gloves.

Funny...you probably have me on ignore still, so i doubt you will even see this.

If i am wrong I am sure Bb will correct me. I will be sending him a private message with my post so he can decide if I, at least, was not being a "rational person when confronted with HIV+ people."

I will also send a PM to BB2.5 and see what he has to say on this subject.
 

TomCat84

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I am being very rational tomcat. If i wasn't I suspect Uncle Bb to have handed my ass to me by now. I am sure his chances are negligible. However he exhibited poor judgement in barebacking, especially if he is going to panic afterwards.

Your partner knows the risks (minimal, but present) and chooses to do so. Bully for him. Many of us would not bareback even in a top position those who are pos (though we may decide to play with condoms with poz people). This young man was NOT going to bareback, but got irritated at the lack of sensation, proceeded to bareback (even knowing, and worrying, however validly, about his cuts), and then afterwards decides to freak and to then come panicking to us.

I know I have tried to be helpful and kind. But kind does not mean handlle with kid gloves.

Funny...you probably have me on ignore still, so i doubt you will even see this.

If i am wrong I am sure Bb will correct me. I will be sending him a private message with my post so he can decide if I, at least, was not being a "rational person when confronted with HIV+ people."

I will also send a PM to BB2.5 and see what he has to say on this subject.

I was not referring to you. If you weren't telling the guy to hit the Panic button, then I wasn't referring to you. You take a risk of being struck by lightning when you go outside every day, too.
 

B_Nicodemous

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I was not referring to you. If you weren't telling the guy to hit the Panic button, then I wasn't referring to you. You take a risk of being struck by lightning when you go outside every day, too.
Agreed. That's why i was not sugessting he panic, but do what the cdc recommends. I tend to face things like this with cold logic. The only emotion was the "WTF were you thinking." Again if he had made an informed decision (one not made in 5 minutes while balls deep in someone) then I wouldn't have added that part. Your guy made a decision that feels right to him. He knows the risk are there (negligible but there) and is topping you bare. Others might not (the risk to them are not worth it), though those who choose option two are not necessarily hitting the panic button (though some admittedly do).

I did felt compelled to answer you on the off chance I was no longer on ignore, as I truly did not want any misunderstanding between us.
 
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Hey....I have been asked my opionion on this subject. Not that I am a doctor, but I have been HIV+ since 1992. Let me start out by saying I will not get into heated battles over who is right and who is wrong.


On another note, the HIV rapid testing program that I normally go to every 5-6 weeks is run through the local health department. They use 10 minute rapid tests from finger pricks and say that they are accurate 30 days post exposure. There's a huge difference between 30 days and the 13 weeks that is referenced in this thread...


I selected this part of your quote, because to me it is the most disturbing of all your comments. Why are you going and getting tested every 5-6 weeks? That tells me that you engage unsafe sexual behavior most of the time. I'm sure the only reason you used a condom this time was because you knew his status. Even knowing this you chose to play unsafe during your play time. This worries me, because you know you are taking a risk with your health. Which is why you are getting tested so much. Wake up, before it's to late.
 

MarkLondon

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<snip>

I selected this part of your quote, because to me it is the most disturbing of all your comments. Why are you going and getting tested every 5-6 weeks? That tells me that you engage unsafe sexual behavior most of the time. I'm sure the only reason you used a condom this time was because you knew his status. Even knowing this you chose to play unsafe during your play time. This worries me, because you know you are taking a risk with your health. Which is why you are getting tested so much. Wake up, before it's to late.

Yes, I was going to raise this point too.

What is the logic behind this behaviour? You're going to carry on with unsafe sex until you become hiv+ and then start treatment early? And will you change your practices then?
 

dude_007

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HIV is not an easy virus to become infected by. I would worry more about HPV or the Hep family from bareback topping.

Learn from this. Like someone else said, the moment of lust is not worth the worry. Always play safe
 

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I am more concerned about the lack of knowledge of how HIV is contracted than I am with this guy's behavior. He deserves to have ALL of the information given to him in a logical and rational fashion so that he can make an informed decision about his sexual encounters. Scare tactics do not do anybody any good.
 
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B_Nicodemous

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Hence my link to the cdc. In that i was answering his misconception that the rapid HIV test was 100% accurate at, what was it, 30 days? I pointed out that the advice that Bb was giving of getting retested was valid, as the seroconversion rates DO vary, even if the majority converts in a set span of time.

His knowledge of HIV and his behavior are linked. If he wants to top bareback with a poz bottom, following the recommendations you listed, that's his biz. If he ends up staying neg, great. If by chance (hey someone has to be that statistical snake eyes) he becomes poz, then I don't want to hear from his whiny ass. That is a risk he knowingly went into.

The thing is, is that he had made the decision to fuck with condoms while the clothes were on. He rescinded that decision in the heat of hormones flooding and synapses firing. He was worried after the fact (probably without reason, well, too much reason) because he felt he fucked up, and he was chastising himself.We hadn't entered into that equation, yet If that wasn't the case, then the tone of the OP would have been different.

Hell, if he was trying to make an informed decision, he may have wanted to go to the CDC website himself, call local and national HIV hotlines, and hit his clinic up with hypothetical situations to see what they would say. Then he could have posted here if he wanted advice form various people, and finally he should have decided on what was right for him, and what he felt were acceptable risks.

But he decided to let little head dictate, regretted it as it wasn't a rational thought process that lead him there, and started this thread.

I will say his risk was probably tiny if the guy has an undetectable viral load, though since he was wondering about things, and is (was) obviously concerned, then he could self educate as to the likelihood of things going wonky.
 

TomCat84

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Hence my link to the cdc. In that i was answering his misconception that the rapid HIV test was 100% accurate at, what was it, 30 days? I pointed out that the advice that Bb was giving of getting retested was valid, as the seroconversion rates DO vary, even if the majority converts in a set span of time.

His knowledge of HIV and his behavior are linked. If he wants to top bareback with a poz bottom, following the recommendations you listed, that's his biz. If he ends up staying neg, great. If by chance (hey someone has to be that statistical snake eyes) he becomes poz, then I don't want to hear from his whiny ass. That is a risk he knowingly went into.

The thing is, is that he had made the decision to fuck with condoms while the clothes were on. He rescinded that decision in the heat of hormones flooding and synapses firing. He was worried after the fact (probably without reason, well, too much reason) because he felt he fucked up, and he was chastising himself.We hadn't entered into that equation, yet If that wasn't the case, then the tone of the OP would have been different.

Hell, if he was trying to make an informed decision, he may have wanted to go to the CDC website himself, call local and national HIV hotlines, and hit his clinic up with hypothetical situations to see what they would say. Then he could have posted here if he wanted advice form various people, and finally he should have decided on what was right for him, and what he felt were acceptable risks.

But he decided to let little head dictate, regretted it as it wasn't a rational thought process that lead him there, and started this thread.

I will say his risk was probably tiny if the guy has an undetectable viral load, though since he was wondering about things, and is (was) obviously concerned, then he could self educate as to the likelihood of things going wonky.

I don't disagree with you, but the first few responses to his post were shocking in their lack of knowledge. You, BBucko, and BBB2 have been exceptions.
 

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I am more concerned about the lack of knowledge of how HIV is contracted than I am with this guy's behavior. He deserves to have ALL of the information given to him in a logical and rational fashion so that he can make an informed decision about his sexual encounters. Scare tactics do not do anybody any good.

I agree....knowledge no is the Key...... :smile:
 

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If i am wrong I am sure Bb will correct me. I will be sending him a private message with my post so he can decide if I, at least, was not being a "rational person when confronted with HIV+ people."

No, Nico you weren't, though a 13-week post-exposure test is definitive (and very conservative). There's no need to test beyond that point unless you're undergoing chemo or some other immune system altering medical treatment.

Otherwise your posts in this thread have been entirely reasonable :wink:

I don't disagree with you, but the first few responses to his post were shocking in their lack of knowledge. You, BBucko, and BBB2 have been exceptions.

LPSG has a very diverse membership, and every HIV/AIDS-related thread here is full of hokum and nonsense along with some reason and non-inflammatory posts. I used to address each offending post head-on but no longer see the sense in trying to do so.

I think that my experience over at AIDSmeds/POZ really helped me learn how to pick my battles with this subject.
 

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I am more concerned about the lack of knowledge of how HIV is contracted than I am with this guy's behavior. He deserves to have ALL of the information given to him in a logical and rational fashion so that he can make an informed decision about his sexual encounters. Scare tactics do not do anybody any good.

LPSG has a very diverse membership, and every HIV/AIDS-related thread here is full of hokum and nonsense along with some reason and non-inflammatory posts.

I've found both of these points are very true - and, unfortunately, that they are true of the world at large as well. Having been involved in public health and sex education for some time, I've had to educate so many otherwise-intelligent people about such seemingly contradictory things as "yes, you can contract HIV from topping" and "no, you can't contract HIV from kissing" that I've just stopped being surprised at how ignorant a lot of people are about it.

Anyway, the number of people who make a stupid decision while horny, like you OP, is so incredibly large that I don't think you should listen too hard to people who might try to shame you for it. That being said, I do hope you take some of it to heart - and in the future please do remember how scared you are right now.

Some decisions, like using condoms, are just too big to be made when you're horny. Make the decision now to use condoms, and don't ever let yourself think there's an option.
 

TomCat84

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Some decisions, like using condoms, are just too big to be made when you're horny. Make the decision now to use condoms, and don't ever let yourself think there's an option.

This. The first time my boyfriend and I fucked, he wore a condom. I had disclosed my HIV status before we met for our first date. He admitted being ignorant. I told him what I knew, but suggested he get information from a knowledgeable, unbiased third source. Or fourth and fifth. Which is EXACTLY what he did, and he made an informed choice. This is what I suggest the OP do, and what I suggest all other people in this thread do. Don't just listen to early 90s era scare campaigns. GO find out for yourself. Have a smart HIV specialist (not just your regular doctor) give you the low down.
 

crushted

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Its impossible to know you infected or not right now.

The sexual transmitted deseases have window period including hiv

you will know between few weeks to six months.

If you get tested next 6 months that is the most correct test.



Hope you get negative result bro...
 

Bbucko

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Its impossible to know you infected or not right now.

The sexual transmitted deseases have window period including hiv

you will know between few weeks to six months.

If you get tested next 6 months that is the most correct test.



Hope you get negative result bro...

Unless you're undergoing chemo or have some sort of immune system deficiency (like Lupus, for instance), a test at 13 weeks post-exposure is considered definitive. This comes from the CDC (see Nico's link on the previous page). The virus never takes six months to produce antibodies.

That's just science, and it helps if you read a thread before throwing your "advice" out, especially if it's been proven incorrect in several posts preceding yours.