WTF is Bug Chasing about anyways?

[Hoss]

It's self hatred, it's guilt, it's in 1 case that I know of, being 1 of the crowd (that's what he calls it).

1 ex-friend did it after his partner became HIV+ after he'd talked the man into a free for all sex party.
1 friend did it because he hates being gay, well he hates life and himself n general. after deliberately seeking a man that would infect him, he became HIV+ and then demanded sympathy, he's still alive and mad that he is but takes hs meds as directed.


When will it stop? Will it stop?

a disturbing thread here at this site just adds to the heattbreak and indifference or maybe ignorance about HIV/AIDS and stds in general.

http://www.lpsg.org/181120-which-celeb-would-you-let.html

and the OP says,
I wouldn't even consider discussing the condom route if I was lucky enough to find myself in an intimate situation with either David James Elliot, Shemar Moore, or country stud Brad Paisley. These guys would have carte blanche to fill my ass up over & over with their seed!

it's not in the same league as actively seeking an std but just as sad.

 

[TomCat84]

Tomcat I'm glad you are doing well and happy and leading a full life. I wish all my friends who have died from Aids related illness were here so I could say the same thing to them.
I don't see where anyone here has sensationalized HIV.

Well, see below for starters. And thank you for not reading my reply correctly, as in I am referring to the PRESENT. Also, thank you for attempting to shut me down by using your dead friends, as if I could not POSSIBLY know anything about HIV infection and the toll it can take. You are as arrogant as always

The gift of death? Why don't they join the army then, or become assassins? Far be it from me to pass moral judgment on killing fellow humans out of context. Soylent Green is delicious.

TC's poz.

He and I have had this discussion (n00b vs LTS) in private. I can respect his attitude as a coping mechanism and I hope it works for a long time for him. I cannot impose my reality on him, nor do I wish to. This is a subject on which I agree to disagree with him.

'Nuf said.

There is no coping mechanism. For the large part, HIV is NOW a manageable condition on par with diabetes, as you no doubt are aware of.

 

[nudeyorker]

I don't know what was arrogant about what I said TC. I am glad you are happy and well and leading a full life was the point of my post.

 

[TomCat84]

I don't know what was arrogant about what I said TC. I am glad you are happy and well and leading a full life was the point of my post.

Well, by basically ignoring my post and bringing up your dead friends in an attempt to shut me up.

 

[nudeyorker]

Well, by basically ignoring my post and bringing up your dead friends in an attempt to shut me up.

I was not attempting to shut you up. I was merely bringing up my experience with the subject. I hope it's a long time before you loose any friends or loved ones... because it's human nature to remember them and bring them up from time to time. Again I'm glad you are well and happy... I hope you stay that way for a long, long time too.

 

[mitchymo]

I strongly disagree with criminalizing illness, and unless this person rapes his partners, then any resulting seroconversion is the responsibility of the person who consented to unprotected sex.

I'm sorry Bbucko. Having aids and deliberately passing it on is criminal. Whether or not an individual should be prosecuted should depend entirely on the individual circumstances involved.
Its not good enough to say its the responsibility of the person who gives consent to unprotected sex. The responsibility belongs to both.

 

[798686]

What I meant by saying I understood the desire to be in charge of one's own mortality is that I can understand that if I could choose how I would die, I would. Naturally I'd choose something calm and healthy and quick and a long, long time in the future.

I didn't get it either - but I wonder if it's kind of an odd way of dealing with fear. Kinda like the urge to jump off a building if you suffer from vertigo...like in someway the impact itself is easier to deal with than the threat?

I think it's misguided and destructive tho - and the gift-giving thing just seems wrong.

I appreciate Bbucko's honesty and clarity in giving an insight into things, btw. <---Not sure how to put that so it doesn't sound patronising.

 

[TomCat84]

I'm sorry Bbucko. Having aids and deliberately passing it on is criminal.

To be precise, one cannot pass on AIDS....they can, however, infect others with HIV.

 

[mitchymo]

To be precise, one cannot pass on AIDS....they can, however, infect others with HIV.

Of course, quite right. HIV is never the fear factor for me, its AIDS. When i grew up as a kid in the 80's, there was a tv commercial here warning about, not HIV, but AIDS. The commercial was grim and quite terrifying for a child to watch actually. I find it very difficult to talk about HIV without getting mixed up with AIDS, i know its wrong to do so, its just inbuilt almost. This advert was a good 20+ years ago and you can imagine how scaremongering things may have been back then.

 

[Bbucko]

There is no coping mechanism. For the large part, HIV is NOW a manageable condition on par with diabetes, as you no doubt are aware of.

There was no condescension intended, and please don't bait me.

I'm sorry Bbucko. Having aids and deliberately passing it on is criminal. Whether or not an individual should be prosecuted should depend entirely on the individual circumstances involved.
Its not good enough to say its the responsibility of the person who gives consent to unprotected sex. The responsibility belongs to both.

You either didn't read what I said about stigma, or don't understand how you're perpetuating it, as I cannot believe that you think stigmatizing people living with HIV/AIDS is a good thing.

I understand the desire to trust others, and really understand anger once that trust is betrayed: that's why we already have civil options. If you could prove malice and forethought you should be able to sue his ass for whatever you can get. But criminalizing disease leads nowhere you want to go.

Of course, quite right. HIV is never the fear factor for me, its AIDS. When i grew up as a kid in the 80's, there was a tv commercial here warning about, not HIV, but AIDS. The commercial was grim and quite terrifying for a child to watch actually. I find it very difficult to talk about HIV without getting mixed up with AIDS, i know its wrong to do so, its just inbuilt almost. This advert was a good 20+ years ago and you can imagine how scaremongering things may have been back then.

The fear, while justifiable on a purely emotional level, is ultimately a barrier to thinking clearly about HIV/AIDS.

I was 20 in 1980 and had already been (very) sexually active for three years. I lost very nearly everyone I'd ever even met by the time I was 32. The virus has altered my existence in every possible way, and having lived with it since my infection in 1984, I understand the terror first-hand.

Survival involves some creative denial. If I hadn't developed that trait I'd already be dead now.

I appreciate Bbucko's honesty and clarity in giving an insight into things, btw. <---Not sure how to put that so it doesn't sound patronising.

You did just fine, thanks :wink:

 

[TomCat84]

There was no condescension intended, and please don't bait me.

Right, well, it may not have been intended, but it certainly comes off that way...."coping mechanism"?

 

[Bbucko]

Right, well, it may not have been intended, but it certainly comes off that way...."coping mechanism"?

You're cherry picking, TC. Reread the entirety of my post: I start out with the word respect and go on from there. I have no desire to either resurrect a zombie conversation we had months ago or get into a pissing match with you. I'm glad you've come back and at no point do I feel that your contributions to this thread are any less valid than mine or anyone else's.

As I stated above, this is something on which I agree to disagree with you. I would prefer to leave it at that, please.

If the internet is anything to go by (and it usually isn't) it would seem to be becoming more popular... :frown1:

I meant to address this earlier but it slipped my mind.

First, information gathering on the net is largely an exercise in self-selection. People go to sites they favor and click the links that interest them. This is completely natural but can make for a skewed picture of what's "normal", much like a virgin whose only exposure is via internet porn and who thinks that typical sexuality involves anal sex, gangbangs and "money shots".

Second, sensationalism sells sensationally well; if it bleeds, it leads. Sensible, small-grained stories about successes in prevention measures regarding HIV transmission get clobbered by the image of out-of-control gays going gaga over BB butt secks. If you read the not terribly long article I linked, I make that point repeatedly; it's actually the main point of the entire piece.

Spreading the horror of bug chasing is win/win for everybody but those who live with HIV/AIDS every day. Even here, I've had my fair share of anonymous trolls who target me for my unapologetically sex-positive views and am occasionally accused of being a gifter. Ah well...

 

[mitchymo]

You either didn't read what I said about stigma, or don't understand how you're perpetuating it, as I cannot believe that you think stigmatizing people living with HIV/AIDS is a good thing.

I don't see how the view i've taken IS stigmatising tho. I'm not criticising people blanketedly just because they are infected. I'm speaking specifically about those who allow another person to contract the infection from them. Fair enough, it cannot be considered criminal when a person has given consent to it, but it sure is still immoral. Its a form of bodily harm surely?

 

[luka82]

If you also don't get jokes and have trouble relating to people, consider that you may be borderline for Aspergers. Here's a questionnnaire Knowledge is power.

I was thinking when talking in English :wink:
But being the hypochondriac that I am, I took the test! LOL
NO AUTISM! :smile:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I meant to address this earlier but it slipped my mind.

First, information gathering on the net is largely an exercise in self-selection. People go to sites they favor and click the links that interest them. This is completely natural but can make for a skewed picture of what's "normal", much like a virgin whose only exposure is via internet porn and who thinks that typical sexuality involves anal sex, gangbangs and "money shots".

Second, sensationalism sells sensationally well; if it bleeds, it leads. Sensible, small-grained stories about successes in prevention measures regarding HIV transmission get clobbered by the image of out-of-control gays going gaga over BB butt secks. If you read the not terribly long article I linked, I make that point repeatedly; it's actually the main point of the entire piece.

Spreading the horror of bug chasing is win/win for everybody but those who live with HIV/AIDS every day. Even here, I've had my fair share of anonymous trolls who target me for my unapologetically sex-positive views and am occasionally accused of being a gifter. Ah well...

Ah well I absolutely agree with what you said before that in fact this particular sexual sub-culture remains a very tiny and marginal one, and if in raising a discussion of it I have brought undue focus to it, I would completely apologise for that. I certainly understand what you're saying in your link about Bug-chasing having been used in a media context as part of an overall discourse in which Gay sex is abnormalised, and in which in particular HIV+ Gay men are stigmatised and their sex lives exposed to opprobrium


I suppose from my perspective as someone who finds almost any kind of sexual activity between consenting adults in some way rationalisable (so to speak) even if I would never engage in some of them myself this one tiny subculture is one I find difficult to rationalise.

In a sense by asking about the psychology of it, my real question isn't about sex or sexuality at all. And it's not about HIV, I mentioned that there were guys who seek to get infected with a variety of STDs as part of their "fetish" not just because its a fact but because the phenomenon of Bug Chasing is broader than merely guys looking to become infected with HIV, the "Bug" in question can be anything from Chlamydia to Hepatitis or Syphilis.

I'll reiterate that this is a tiny number of men involved in this sexual sub-culture, and that I don't think that even if it is growing (for which I have nothing but anecdotal evidence) it is not growing with any kind of alarming rapidity and is not significant as a proportion of the gay community or indeed of those who are HIV+ nor that we should start drawing any inferences of a hugely wider nature about anyone else outside this small sub-culture.

I suppose the purpose is to see if anyone has a clue as to what motivates someone to deliberately harm themselves in what could be a longterm way for sexual gratification.


I can understand pain as pleasure, on an entirely short-term basis, but doing something to oneself which would cause pain or suffering on a long term basis, such as becoming infected with Hepatitis or Syphilis (allowed to go untreated) seems to go beyond BDSM concepts into a world of self destruction which even drug addicts and smokers don't enter.

 

[maxcok]

Ppils iz fuktup in dey head.

 

[LPSGeezer]

Someone told me about that a few years ago and it makes no sense at all except for the roulette part of it, but even that is a stretch what would the benefit be, social security benefits at a younger age? I still don't get it.

 

[helgaleena]

Someone told me about that a few years ago and it makes no sense at all except for the roulette part of it, but even that is a stretch what would the benefit be, social security benefits at a younger age? I still don't get it.

That makes two of us. Even when i was actively suicidal i didn't want to kill anybody else...:sad:

 

[Bbucko]

I don't see how the view i've taken IS stigmatising tho. I'm not criticising people blanketedly just because they are infected. I'm speaking specifically about those who allow another person to contract the infection from them. Fair enough, it cannot be considered criminal when a person has given consent to it, but it sure is still immoral. Its a form of bodily harm surely?

Morality is relative and related to religion. Ethics are secular and tend to be more pragmatic than dogmatic, though no less relative. Non-disclosure of a positive status is, in my opinion, highly unethical; I don't practice it. However, there are many sexual activities for which disclosure is irrelevant. The tenets of safer sex were codified in the late 80s and are still a practical way to maneuver the mine-field of casual sex today. There are thousands of mixed-status (serodiscordant) couples who've been in long term relationships. Safer sex practices work.

Any sexually active adult who is unaware of the risks involved in unprotected sex, in this day and age, live in a very strange world entirely different from my own. Anyone who is HIV negative and who engages in unprotected sex outside the strict bounds of monogamy with a fellow HIV negative partner is playing a very dangerous and self-destructive game. Should such behavior lead to an infection, s/he has only him/herself to blame. It's also instructive (though even further off topic) that perhaps 30-40% of everyone carrying the virus is unaware of it because, for whatever reason, that person chooses not to be tested.

And even those who do everything right can sometimes slip, again due to drugs, alcohol or some other factor which causes him/her to minimize the well-known risks involved in unprotected sex. Taking responsibility for one's own seroconversion is a necessary step in the healing process required to move forward and live as long and healthy a life as s/he can while living with the virus.

Perpetuating a victim mentality delays this healing process, and can lead to mental and physical health issues which hasten greater sickness and death. Locating the person responsible for one's having been infected (barring rape) is as easy as finding the closest mirror. I will grant that such forward movement in acceptance can take years, and some never make it.

But, again, this is off topic. This is not a discussion of gifters donating anonymously or unknowingly, this is a discussion of those chasers who actively seek the virus (or other STIs) and those gifters who are only too happy to share.

 

[Snozzle]

I was thinking when talking in English :wink:
But being the hypochondriac that I am, I took the test! LOL
NO AUTISM! :smile:

My apologies, of course literal vs figurative is a big issue for second-language speakers of English. It's full of word play and metaphors that we take for granted, and phrasal verbs ("Shape up or ship out!" Shape? Up? Ship? Out?*) must be a nightmare. I studied university level English but never heard of phrasal verbs till a course on TESL (Teaching English as a Second Language).

*(Shape up= start behaving properly, ship out= leave the region fast and permanently)