Bomb Plots foiled

[B_Stronzo]

The reason why is because I missed it. Unlike your posts, I tend not to read much of what faceking has to say. Consider that a compliment.

I do and you've given me one helluvan idea.:wink:

Compliment graciously accepted and returned in kind.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The airliners bomb plot. This global war on terror doesn't seem to be proceding according to plan. According to the flypaper theory being pushed by Bush administration apologists, the Islamic terrorists are supposed to be fooled into wasting their efforts striking at hard targets in Iraq, not places like Madrid, London, Bali or western airports.

 

[dong20]

I think for this thread, this is an American vs. terrorist thing with an examination of related domestic and foreign policies. Not a black white issue.

Actually BC it was about a British incident, British suspects and related foreign and domestic policies although the Americans were involved as targets. But of course it rarely takes more than a page for just about any topic in etcetera to become all about America; as if that's somehow necessary for it have legitimacy.

The above is almost entirely tongue in cheek.:tongue:

 

[faceking]

The airliners bomb plot. This global war on terror doesn't seem to be proceding according to plan. According to the flypaper theory being pushed by Bush administration apologists, the Islamic terrorists are supposed to be fooled into wasting their efforts striking at hard targets in Iraq, not places like Madrid, London, Bali or western airports.

Eh, how do you know.... last count I knew... we are 5 years running. Not going to say it won't happen again on US soil. But this one got stopped well in it's tracks... and they had these guys in their sights for months. It's conjecture to say that a presence in Iraq is/isn't working...

Thank god for wiretapping, tracking bank accounts, racial profiling, religious profiling, and the ACLU having zero access to the methodologies of those who tirely work to keep us safe.

What theory do the Democrats have for the combating terrorism against the US... come to think of it... the Dems have ZERO game plan. The only game plan is knocking the GOP, calling for troop pullout, and calling for privacy rights. This will be laughable when they loose 2008.

 

[b.c.]

Actually BC it was about a British incident, British suspects and related foreign and domestic policies although the Americans were involved as targets. But of course it rarely takes more than a page for just about any topic in etcetera to become all about America; as if that's somehow necessary for it have legitimacy.

The above is almost entirely tongue in cheek.:tongue:

Oh! We were just the targets. Well...that's different.

 

[dong20]

Oh! We were just the targets. Well...that's different.

No, that's not really what I meant and I did say it mostly tongue in cheek. But BC there would actually have been folk on those planes who were neither American nor British; you know that other 95%+ of the world. They were targets too, or don't they count?

It was your comment (my bold) that amused me:

"I think for this thread, this is an American vs. terrorist thing with an examination of related domestic and foreign policies. Not a black white issue."

It wasn't and isn't an exclusively American vs. Terrorist thing, it was about a terrorist plot which involved, among others US carriers and which was interrupted by British security forces. It was an innocent victims vs. terrorist thing and I stand by the rest of my comment.:tongue:

 

[b.c.]

No, that's not really what I meant and I did say it mostly tongue in cheek. But BC there would actually have been folk on those planes who were neither American nor British; you know that other 95%+ of the world. They were targets too, or don't they count?

It was your comment (my bold) that amused me:

"I think for this thread, this is an American vs. terrorist thing with an examination of related domestic and foreign policies. Not a black white issue."

It wasn't and isn't an exclusively American vs. Terrorist thing, it was about a terrorist plot which involved, among others US carriers and which was interrupted by British security forces. It was an innocent victims vs. terrorist thing and I stand by the rest of my comment.:tongue:

The part that I would've put in bold are the words "for this thread" or perhaps, more accurately, "regarding the direction this thread seems to have taken". If you check back in the replies, you'll find that it was not I who initiated discussions about American foreign policy, and American interests.

What I was trying to say to Shelby (and I trust you know this...I mean, you're a clever guy, right?) is if it is going to be a discussion of American foreign policy as it relates to other countries and terrorist activities, let's keep it that, and not turn it into a black American vs. white American thing.

As for your initial question as to whether I think the other 95% of the world counts, rather than dignify that with a response, I suggest you check my past responses to similar issues on this board and figure it out for yourself.

 

[dong20]

The part that I would've put in bold are the words "for this thread" or perhaps, more accurately, "regarding the direction this thread seems to have taken". If you check back in the replies, you'll find that it was not I who initiated discussions about American foreign policy, and American interests.

What I was trying to say to Shelby (and I trust you know this...I mean, you're a clever guy, right?) is if it is going to be a discussion of American foreign policy as it relates to other countries and terrorist activities, let's keep it that, and not turn it into a black American vs. white American thing.

As for your initial question as to whether I think the other 95% of the world counts, rather than dignify that with a response, I suggest you check my past responses to similar issues on this board and figure it out for yourself.

I agree, I was just being contrary....but I do maintain that threads are too often 'Americanised' or non American focussed topics tend to be passed by. The bulk of the memberhip being American is the cause I know but it's hardly and excuse.

As I already said it was really a tongue in cheek observation rather than a complaint.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Hell no. I'm never sure. The only thing I'm sure of is that my dick's in my pants and I like how it feels when I rub it. But I'll never sanction profiling. No sir.

I'm never serious unless I'm deadly serious...or dead, one of the two. I do semi-worry if Muslims will be seen as the 'root of all evil' and exterminated in a Holocaust fashion, except unlike the Jews, it'll be justified in the name of national security.

My main concern with that, is that I'm in the 'blur' that means I look like I could be born in any part of the world where "brown" is not a minority.

I DON'T WANNA DIE!

I think fundamental Christians believe in an 'evil' that could easily be our undoing if not nipped in the bud. So who gets to say which minority is truly 'evil' orca?

Well, Al-qaeda win awards for "most unlikable minority", but ultimately, it's all politics. I mean, I remember when I was a kid and Ireland was making nice holes in city streets and shopping centres..of course, I don't remember everyone shouting "OMFG! IRA ARE EBIL!".

If it wasn't terrorism, it'd be communism, or the Jews, or the Roundheads, the Carthaginians...

 

[madame_zora]

Orca, you make a good point. Faceking posted somewhere (I can't remember where) the list of demands Bin Laden made to the US after 9/11, and despite being a bit overzealous in demanding that we convert to Islam, some of it was highly articulate and even sympathetic. Thanks Face, I hadn't read it for a long time and it was an eye opener.

Most of America is supremely unaware of the rest of the world, and the possibility that it exists for any reason other than to satisfy our own greed. Brown ppl are fine as long as they're manning the phones and making cheap stuff for us, but if you're going to ask us to consider their culture as important, fuck right off. I'm not defending their cultures by our standards, just that they have the right to have them- regardless of how we feel they should operate. It's arrogant of us to believe we can just go and dispense "freedom" at the end of a gun, it just doesn't work like that. Of course, we'll figure that out in a few more years when we finally pull out with our tail between our legs and the bodies of our young people stuffing cemeteries for a cause we never had a chance of winning.

 

[DaveyR]

Most of America is supremely unaware of the rest of the world, and the possibility that it exists for any reason other than to satisfy our own greed. Brown ppl are fine as long as they're manning the phones and making cheap stuff for us, but if you're going to ask us to consider their culture as important, fuck right off. I'm not defending their cultures by our standards, just that they have the right to have them- regardless of how we feel they should operate. It's arrogant of us to believe we can just go and dispense "freedom" at the end of a gun, it just doesn't work like that. Of course, we'll figure that out in a few more years when we finally pull out with our tail between our legs and the bodies of our young people stuffing cemeteries for a cause we never had a chance of winning.

This is so refreshing to hear from an American. IMHO this would apply to most European Countries too.

It's just a pity that politicians could not display this same level of honesty. Politics is about self promotion and greed - nothing else. Here lies the root of a great many of the World's problems.

 

[JustAsking]

faceking,
It is good to see you back and in rare form. I am a latecomer to this thread and I just read through it. I am responding to a couple things you said back aways.

One thing was about moving the Israelis back to Europe and let the middle east sink back into the 9th century. I love your sense of humor even when you are serious. First let me say that I think their target is more like the 4th century, but that doesnt' change your basic concept. My answer to your suggestion is: YOU FORGOT ABOUT THE OIL!!!!!! Why do you think we are messing around there in the first place. Oil, and the powerful pro-Israeli lobby.

Also, you wanted to know why they might be mad at us over there. Its because of stuff like this. Now I hate terrorism and fundamentalism with a passion. But I am not stupid enough to meddle in the affairs of another culture, brutalize them and be essentially clueless about the consequences and not expect a few people to be mad at me.

They don't hate us for our success. They hate us because they see the west as evil. Ordinarily that would not be enough to provoke this kind of terrorism, however, in this case, they see us an active evil that is preventing them from creating the kind of theocratic state they have been lusting for since the fall of the Ottoman empire.

Again, I am not saying I agree with their view of the west, but I also can't close my eyes to the mistakes we have made over there and make up other excuses to why they might be mat at us.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

More importantly, they hate us so much that they'd kill themselves to take one of us out. Now I dunno how fanatical the average college-kid solider is, but I doubt it's that nuts. Especially when the terrorists are sane, sober and intelligant.

It's frightening. I've watched their reports and documentaries about these people and they could be as sane as any LPSGer here, then they turn a corner and BLAMMO!

How the fuck are we supposed to fight that?

 

[dong20]

This from my initial post in this thread:

This was in the news today. It's always hard to say whether it's a genuine interception or a real threat or hyped to keep us all 'on our toes' and thus malleable to further rights infringements. My cynicism on this is disturbing.

This from Claire's Chasing Ghosts terrorism thread :

Of the high profile 'interceptions' in recent months, or even years, how many have resulted in suspects being released due to 'lack of evidence'? I don't pretend to be an expert but, in the case of the recent bomb plot in the UK, if the security forces had enough (i.e. specific and detailed) evidence or knowledge that an attack was imminent and where and when it seems strange that they needed continual custody extensions for questioning and few have been charged.

Before I get shouted down, yes I do appreciate that the amount of evidence that needs to be analysed in such cases is immense and I don't want to over simplfy things but I'm just suggesting that the 'Alert-Panic-Clampdown-repression-release/apologise-we acted in good faith - OOPS' scenario is [not] unprecedented.

This in the news today:

"LONDON (Reuters) - Two brothers charged with failing to disclose information about a suspected plot to bomb U.S.-bound airlines in August walked free from court on Wednesday when a judge threw out the charges.

Mehran and Umair Hussain were originally charged with failing to tell police that their brother Nabeel, who has been charged with conspiracy to murder and plotting terrorism, was involved in the suspected plot."

Sure, they were evidently not 'key players' and there are still some 15 suspects 'awaiting trial' etc but I wonder how long it will be before more are released due to 'lack of evidence'.

I hate to say I knew it but it's not like it's the first time this has happened. It deepens my cynicism each time this happens and I'm sure I'm not alone in that. The fear is that it it raises the likelihood of apathy causing tragedy in the face of a real attack.