While excellent examples they are also dreadful and realistic. :frown1: I've never been married; but I know not to judge all divorced people harshly and I don't label them as failures or losers at love.
Divorce = Failure
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D_Tina_Ciao
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Maybe you're right - heaven knows I've beaten myself up about it (as if I weren't already beaten up enough), but in my case, I grew up with my husband to be - had not been in touch with him for several years, but when we fell in love, we had a year and a half to two year long courtship before marriage. I did NOT know about his abusive father before marriage (carefully and intentionally hidden, not only from me, but everyone else), and he showed NO signs of ever becoming abusive before marriage - he carefully hid that side, but it appeared one week after our marriage and never improved. I stayed and tried to work it out for 10 years, loved him enormously, but back then, there was no counseling, no help for abusers or the abused, and he wouldn't have gone for help if there had been any. If I had continued to stay, with his enormous strength he would have undoubtedly eventually killed me, even if inadverdantly.
Sometimes, life just unexpectedly dumps a load of shit on you and there's nothing you can do about it but try to survive.
Dolfette was right in what she said, I think.
My opinion - you're entitled to yours - am in no way denigrating anything you said - just speaking from my own personal experience.
Edit: Thanks for the kind remarks and encouraging words. I DO live all out, am not afraid to be vulnerable and give my all - just not sure I can do it simply because I have not found any other man to rock my world, and somebody has to come along with the chemistry and determination to do that in order for me to go forward. Just waiting for whatever God deigns.
I am a believer - sorry, you guys, but I am. However, I also believe in miracles so there may be one for me someday - not unrealistic - have too many miracles in my life, healings, and preservation of my life when it was inexplicably impossible. Started out life with a bang - fell out of a 3rd story apartment window when less than 18 months old, tumbling head over bottom to land on gravel and survive, not even a broken bone. One more half-turn either direction and I would have been dead. Coincidence? Don't think so - a gardener saw me fall and reached out to grab me, couldn't catch me, but his touch kept me from the last half-turn and landing on my head. Over a half-dozen such incidents in my life.
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AlteredEgo
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I don't know that all divorced people or all people who've never been married and never had long-lasting relationships can be lumped together. I think as individuals experiences can vary so much that care must be taken to examine each case for its own merit.
When I was single, I never met any divorced men I wanted to date. Of the ones I met, some were too clingy, some too forward, others too jaded, but none just right. One of them was planning to take a cruise with his mother about two weeks after we met, and he actually wanted me to come along! He said his mother was okay with it, and that there was still time to add me to his stateroom. Like I want to be trapped on a boat with some strange man and his mommy. Still though I viewed divorce as a definite red flag, I think I was careful not to blow it out of proportion. As NJQT suggests, the clingy cruise guy was a firm believer in love, romance, and decisiveness. Well, I like those things too, so how can I fault him? I never could really gel with any divorced guys, but then again, they were always 15 or more years older.
In NJQT's examples the divorced guy gets along with his children and ex-wives. That situation definitely did not work out for me. Every man met who had at least one ex-wife had a problem which kept me from getting too close. In the cases of the two who had children, the mothers were that problem. This is despite the fact that I had no relationship with the children whatsoever (since it never got serious enough). One just seemed to like meddling, and the other seemed to want the man back. In fact, she "fell into economic distress" and moved in with him. Since he already had custody of the children, it was simple and easy. I got out of that situation ASAP. If I had found men who had ex-wives and children, but who were low on drama, that would have really appealed to me. I did not see any of those out there. Still, my mind was open to the possibility.
I married a man who has never had any relationship other than ours. (I'm gonna marry him again in less than a year!) Even with his utter lack of experience, he's approached our life together with thoughtfulness, flexibility, passion and maturity. More than anyone else I ever dated, he has a clear understanding of what it takes to make a relationship work and last. Granted, he's not over 40, and though he's capable of surprisingly anti-social behavior, he no longer demonstrates a need to keep the world away from himself anymore.
Anyway, I don't know that the choices put to us by NJQT are choices I would make. Which of those men would I choose if the choice was mine to make? Which one is emotionally and situationally available, right now?
When I was single, I never met any divorced men I wanted to date. Of the ones I met, some were too clingy, some too forward, others too jaded, but none just right. One of them was planning to take a cruise with his mother about two weeks after we met, and he actually wanted me to come along! He said his mother was okay with it, and that there was still time to add me to his stateroom. Like I want to be trapped on a boat with some strange man and his mommy. Still though I viewed divorce as a definite red flag, I think I was careful not to blow it out of proportion. As NJQT suggests, the clingy cruise guy was a firm believer in love, romance, and decisiveness. Well, I like those things too, so how can I fault him? I never could really gel with any divorced guys, but then again, they were always 15 or more years older.
In NJQT's examples the divorced guy gets along with his children and ex-wives. That situation definitely did not work out for me. Every man met who had at least one ex-wife had a problem which kept me from getting too close. In the cases of the two who had children, the mothers were that problem. This is despite the fact that I had no relationship with the children whatsoever (since it never got serious enough). One just seemed to like meddling, and the other seemed to want the man back. In fact, she "fell into economic distress" and moved in with him. Since he already had custody of the children, it was simple and easy. I got out of that situation ASAP. If I had found men who had ex-wives and children, but who were low on drama, that would have really appealed to me. I did not see any of those out there. Still, my mind was open to the possibility.
I married a man who has never had any relationship other than ours. (I'm gonna marry him again in less than a year!) Even with his utter lack of experience, he's approached our life together with thoughtfulness, flexibility, passion and maturity. More than anyone else I ever dated, he has a clear understanding of what it takes to make a relationship work and last. Granted, he's not over 40, and though he's capable of surprisingly anti-social behavior, he no longer demonstrates a need to keep the world away from himself anymore.
Anyway, I don't know that the choices put to us by NJQT are choices I would make. Which of those men would I choose if the choice was mine to make? Which one is emotionally and situationally available, right now?
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AlteredEgo
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I never said anyone was evil. I said only that the ones with whom I had anything to do were insurmountable obstacles. I also said I personally remained open-minded about the possibility of having low-drama relationships with men who are fathers. In fact, my post began with me saying that all people are individuals, and not really able to be smooshed together into groups in the way the OP requests.
StrictlyAvg
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Now who's retarded. SHE doesn't premature ejac I'll be bound..." the most retarded thing I have heard thus far!
But I'll bet you still premature ejaculate.
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Divorce = Failure, this is what I was recently told by a male friend. I strongly disagree with his opinion. He maintains that a man or woman who is divorced is flawed. They failed at marriage and therefore they will most likely fail in any future relationships.
I think this is bullshit. I think that if a man has been married and divorced say two or three times, it proves that he still believes in love and is willing to take a chance.
Then again, I may be biased as I am the product of both my parents 2nd marriage. Mom had been a widow for 8 years, when she met my dad who was divorced. My parents will have been together for 46 years, July 5th this year. :hug: :kiss:
Frankly, I'm soo picky about so many other things, that if I were to not consider divorced men as having dating potential, I'd never have dated at all.
Do you believe Divorce = Failure? failure as a person? i dont understand how being unsuccessful at one aspect of your life can make you a failure as a whole. romantically, it technically would amount to being a failure. although, it isn't to say that failures don't deserve second tries.
Do you think anyone who has been divorced is somehow inherently flawed? As said above,
Would you date a divorced man or woman? If not, why?
Depends on the amount of divorces and the lengths of the marriages. in my opinion, marriage is taken FAR too lightly nowadays. people believe "I can't fall in lust/infatuation because i'm not a teenager!!!" but the truth is it happens all the time. For me, i would want to live with someone 2-3 years before marrying them. Not only is marriage a life-long commitment romantically, it is also a life long commitment financially. with the economy today i wouldn't be able to afford getting married 6 times. who can? besides britney spears -eyeroll-. anyways, date; yes. if she has matured and realized her mistakes with her previous marriages were she was more along the lines of infatuated or just stupid then we could possibly be married. for me though, im not looking for marriage for a LONNNNGGG time
Ladies, which is preferable to date? A 40 year old man who has been divorced twice and has a decent relationship with his ex-wives & children or a 40 year old man who has never been married, has no children and whose longest relationship was 2 years?
ok, a man with longest relationship 2 years at age 40?? that rarely happens. also, that's such a materialistic concept. if the 40 year old man with no marriage was a much better suit, then marry him. who cares about the past?
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Ladies I think your all being too hard on yourselves really. I am the son of a bitter divorce in the early seventies at a time where it wasnÂ’t that common nor was it common for good Italian Catholics to even think of such a thing.
My father was the youngest of fifteen and my mother the oldest of thirteen. I believe them both the product of the times in which they grew up the fifties, their ethnic values ~ Italian and their faith although flawed; Catholicism.
After their divorce we no longer had any contact with his side of the family nor him she made sure of this. Although we grew up in the same city playing sport against each others catholic schools we didnÂ’t talk.
As soon as I could I got out there and joined the marines. After my first tour of duty overseas I came home to look up my father who I had not seen in ten years and began a relationship that lasted until his death due very much so from a broken heart. It seems he never got over losing his wife and kids.
She on the other hand a college professor was to leave her husband and her lover at the time was to leave his wife and kids unfortunately for her he never did.
I believe they both married too early and were pressured into doing so since it was the right thing to do at the time and their families knew each other.
Now at fifty my mother who I havenÂ’t lived with since I was seventeen now lives with me, with a broken and guilt ridden heart dieing from cirrhosis after drinking in hiding to hide the pain.
There is no doubt about it divorce sucks for all involved and some more than others. I do believe however today things are lot different than they were and there is more counseling and support out there for both sides.
As for your individual reason for seeking a divorce you do not owe no one and explanation, nor do you wear some sort of Scarlet Letter marking you as such or as damaged goods. I would encourage you to try again if you can as it is much like that old saying that ‘if you fall from the horse it is important to get back on him again’ no pun intended.
You are intelligent women donÂ’t let one or even two instances mark or define your life you deserve more and happiness is everyoneÂ’s to have!
My father was the youngest of fifteen and my mother the oldest of thirteen. I believe them both the product of the times in which they grew up the fifties, their ethnic values ~ Italian and their faith although flawed; Catholicism.
After their divorce we no longer had any contact with his side of the family nor him she made sure of this. Although we grew up in the same city playing sport against each others catholic schools we didnÂ’t talk.
As soon as I could I got out there and joined the marines. After my first tour of duty overseas I came home to look up my father who I had not seen in ten years and began a relationship that lasted until his death due very much so from a broken heart. It seems he never got over losing his wife and kids.
She on the other hand a college professor was to leave her husband and her lover at the time was to leave his wife and kids unfortunately for her he never did.
I believe they both married too early and were pressured into doing so since it was the right thing to do at the time and their families knew each other.
Now at fifty my mother who I havenÂ’t lived with since I was seventeen now lives with me, with a broken and guilt ridden heart dieing from cirrhosis after drinking in hiding to hide the pain.
There is no doubt about it divorce sucks for all involved and some more than others. I do believe however today things are lot different than they were and there is more counseling and support out there for both sides.
As for your individual reason for seeking a divorce you do not owe no one and explanation, nor do you wear some sort of Scarlet Letter marking you as such or as damaged goods. I would encourage you to try again if you can as it is much like that old saying that ‘if you fall from the horse it is important to get back on him again’ no pun intended.
You are intelligent women donÂ’t let one or even two instances mark or define your life you deserve more and happiness is everyoneÂ’s to have!
Divorce happens far too easily in my opinion and the effects on kids can be very bad. It should be an exception not just walking away when something gets difficult.
i don't think people who are divorced are failures. every divorce has different circumstances and should not be judged or looked down on. we don't know what goes on in someone's relationship because we are not them.
i have also gone on a few dates in the past with men that were divorced. i didn't think they were bad guys at all, they just weren't right for me.
i have also gone on a few dates in the past with men that were divorced. i didn't think they were bad guys at all, they just weren't right for me.
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Tommy56
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Marriage seems to me to be a losing proposition altogether.
It's a civil contract between two people. Marriage at one time was simply an arrangement based on property, politics, or breeding. Then Jane Austen came along and the 19th and 20th centuries slowly morphed marriage into something far different. Love, an all too illusive human experience became the primary mover. It's expectations may be unreasonable, in my view, so I am very reluctant to cry "failure" at divorce. Love, as wonderful as it is, is hopelessly tied to the complicated circuitry of the human psyche. To make it a mainstay of a civil contract is not a promising thing.
It's a civil contract between two people. Marriage at one time was simply an arrangement based on property, politics, or breeding. Then Jane Austen came along and the 19th and 20th centuries slowly morphed marriage into something far different. Love, an all too illusive human experience became the primary mover. It's expectations may be unreasonable, in my view, so I am very reluctant to cry "failure" at divorce. Love, as wonderful as it is, is hopelessly tied to the complicated circuitry of the human psyche. To make it a mainstay of a civil contract is not a promising thing.
full disclosure first: ive never been married but here's my take: to back up what most everybody says, people are flawed, the singles, the married, the divorced. I believe that if you marry once and divorce, sometimes you learn from those mistakes. BUT don't you dare blame the other man/woman 100%. Some soul searching is needed. I think if u are divorced more than twice, then u need to seriously consider if u are cut out for married life. I dont think people should co-habitate and shack up but I know most couples do it so who am i to stop it. Divorced people are not always going to repeat the same mistakes and they can learn but it walks a slippery line of treating matrimony in a cavalier fashion if u keep on tying the knot repeatedly.
Divorce=experience for me. I prefer younger men and divorced, younger, men are my first choice. Where I live, people tend to marry early in life. Therefore, lots of young divorced people out here. I don't want a young guy that has a fantasy idea of marriage in his head.
D_Tina_Ciao
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And two marriages, one that lasted 10 years (left because he abused me), the other that lasted 31 years, is therefore inferior to all those folks who live together, unmarried, in one relationship after another for several years apiece? Maybe it would be good not to judge me and other divorcees until you've walked in my/our shoes.
And being gay, you have come to this decision about heterosexual marriage? Not bashing gays, just wondering how you have enough experience/perspective about man/woman marital relationships to make such a generalization. Particularly considering the general live-together-without marriage mentality so prevalent today, with such relationships often lasting only a few years - why is that preferable to marriage, which indicates at least an intention for a long-term commitment? That's, I guess, what I'm asking.
Edit: I do realize you said "more than 2 divorces" but I feel that somehow implies I have failed, to have had 2 of them, that I am "not cut out for married life", when I know I am - that I thrive in marriage, bloom, am faithful/loyal, and know how to make my man happy (have never been left by a man in my life). I just can't be abused or used. I tend to get defensive when people make generalized statements which include me in their parameters - sorry.
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B_Think_Kink
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No shit. His profile doesn't give an age, he could have been in a heterosexual relationship previous to now, but I doubt you thought about that one.And being gay, you have come to this decision about heterosexual marriage? Not bashing gays, just wondering how you have enough experience/perspective about man/woman marital relationships to make such a generalization. Particularly considering the general live-together-without marriage mentality so prevalent today, with such relationships often lasting only a few years - why is that preferable to marriage, which indicates at least an intention for a long-term commitment? That's, I guess, what I'm asking.
Edit: I tend to get defensive when people make generalized statements which include me in their parameters - sorry.
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Hi Friends,
I couldn't agree more with Phil, above.
I met my husband in my 30s, and now married just over 10 years, have recently "left the building" and I really couldn't be happier, unless perhaps I had chosen to do it about nine years ago. I'll admit I was younger, less mature when we first met and ultimately decided to marry, but what I regret is not having had some serious conversations and had some answers to what is now some pretty significant issues. My husband had been married twice previously, and I can't say that he was entirely honest with me early on about some circumstances, and so I was a bit, naive, fooled, if you will, into thinking he was "the one." Had I known now what I know, I would never have married him in the first place. I also regret having taken 10 years out of my life, with many of the last several years in general unhappiness... continuing to try to fit a square peg into a round hole, and blaming myself often for why things didn't fit.... until I got older, wiser, smarter, more confident!
You only get one crack at life and you might as well enjoy it, make the most of it. If you're unhappy, move on, and make way for new experiences.
Regarding dating a divorced man versus a man in his 40s never married, I think it depends on indiviual circumstances, and by all means find out the truth about the prior divorce(s).
And for me, "marriage" is not all that it is cracked up to be. We had no children, desired no children, and I often questioned why we gave into the institution of "marriage" in the first place -- probaby becaue that's what society teaches us, it's what you're supposed to do. And for unmarried women in their 30s, questions begin to arise like what's wrong with "her?"
Given my experiences, now I don't see any particular reason to pursue a marriage in the future, rather I'd prefer a loving, committed relationship, where two people support each other and have mutual give and take, and compromise in being "together." Who needs a piece of paper to understand that, come on!
I think some people's choices for being "married" may differ from the husand and wife, and often from couple to couple, but at least the two ought to be on the same page, and it wouldn't really matter to me at this point, if he was divorced at 40, and/or never been married at 40. Divorced a couple of times, then I'd start asking questions for certain, now based on my own experience.
Plus I don't look at divorce as a "failure," rather an opportunity to become fulfilled, to seek out that which is lacking in life and a relationship, akin to a stepping stone to perhaps a happier existence, be it single or married.
Being in a bad unhealthy, unsatisfying relationship, is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic! Either it's working or it's not! Enjoy your life while you have it.
FlowerChick
Take time to stop and smell the roses!
I couldn't agree more with Phil, above.
I met my husband in my 30s, and now married just over 10 years, have recently "left the building" and I really couldn't be happier, unless perhaps I had chosen to do it about nine years ago. I'll admit I was younger, less mature when we first met and ultimately decided to marry, but what I regret is not having had some serious conversations and had some answers to what is now some pretty significant issues. My husband had been married twice previously, and I can't say that he was entirely honest with me early on about some circumstances, and so I was a bit, naive, fooled, if you will, into thinking he was "the one." Had I known now what I know, I would never have married him in the first place. I also regret having taken 10 years out of my life, with many of the last several years in general unhappiness... continuing to try to fit a square peg into a round hole, and blaming myself often for why things didn't fit.... until I got older, wiser, smarter, more confident!
You only get one crack at life and you might as well enjoy it, make the most of it. If you're unhappy, move on, and make way for new experiences.
Regarding dating a divorced man versus a man in his 40s never married, I think it depends on indiviual circumstances, and by all means find out the truth about the prior divorce(s).
And for me, "marriage" is not all that it is cracked up to be. We had no children, desired no children, and I often questioned why we gave into the institution of "marriage" in the first place -- probaby becaue that's what society teaches us, it's what you're supposed to do. And for unmarried women in their 30s, questions begin to arise like what's wrong with "her?"
Given my experiences, now I don't see any particular reason to pursue a marriage in the future, rather I'd prefer a loving, committed relationship, where two people support each other and have mutual give and take, and compromise in being "together." Who needs a piece of paper to understand that, come on!
I think some people's choices for being "married" may differ from the husand and wife, and often from couple to couple, but at least the two ought to be on the same page, and it wouldn't really matter to me at this point, if he was divorced at 40, and/or never been married at 40. Divorced a couple of times, then I'd start asking questions for certain, now based on my own experience.
Plus I don't look at divorce as a "failure," rather an opportunity to become fulfilled, to seek out that which is lacking in life and a relationship, akin to a stepping stone to perhaps a happier existence, be it single or married.
Being in a bad unhealthy, unsatisfying relationship, is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic! Either it's working or it's not! Enjoy your life while you have it.
FlowerChick
Take time to stop and smell the roses!
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